How does one who has just begun to become cardiovascularly fit make the transition from MISS to HIIT without making her chest explode?

Currently I do 16 mins of MISS training with a cool down time of 4 mins on both a treadmill and an elliptical, during which my heart rate is a steady 167-172 and I am fairly winded. I'm not sure what % of my max. heart rate that is either, but I've been wanting to start HIIT to save myself some time, as I would imagine 20 mins of HIIT would give me better results for my time over a combined 40 mins of MISS :nod:.

I have to say that I'm pretty scared :o, though, as I have no idea how it will feel to push my heart that hard. I always thought it would be painful and I guess that's what stopped me from trying. But I don't want to be scared anymore.

Thoughts?

What scares you? Is it the possibility of falling off the treadmill, or is it just that it could be uncomfortable?

HIIT is pretty hard-core, or at least it should be if you're doing it right. You're going to get winded, and by the end you should be very tired. That said, there's nothing wrong with getting winded and/or being very tired, and in fact, that's the point of HIIT.

Start slow. Toss in a wind sprint or two for 15-30 seconds while doing your medium intensity cardio. Recover for as long as it takes, and then sprint again. After awhile, you'll find that getting out of breath and having your heart rate elevated isn't as scary as it seemed, and it actually feels pretty good when you get done with a good HIIT session. :gl:

Try it on the bike for a day, can't hurt :tucool:

What scares you? Is it the possibility of falling off the treadmill, or is it just that it could be uncomfortable?

Both, LOL. Falling of the treadmill looks like it would hurt, but not as much as my heart jumping out of my chest.

HIIT is pretty hard-core, or at least it should be if you're doing it right. You're going to get winded, and by the end you should be very tired. That said, there's nothing wrong with getting winded and/or being very tired, and in fact, that's the point of HIIT.

You're right. I've never done anything that hard-core before, I guess that's why I'm scared of it. Thanks for clearing that up for me. I think I'm a little more confident about it. I'm probably going to do another week of MISS and try HIIT next week.

Also, I lift after MISS session, but I've read that lifting is not recommended after a HIIT because... simply because I physically won't be able to :lol:.

Vicky:

At 22 and female, your max heart rate should be 225 - age, or about 200 bpm. Therefore, 170 bpm on your exercises is 85% of your maxHR. This is pretty high, as you may have already guessed based on your comment about being winded afterwards. This is an excellent range for cardioascular training, as it will increase your VO2max when done consistently for a couple months.

I have been using this same strategy (30 min SS on the stair stepper at 150-155 bpm, which for my age is 85-88% maxHR). My VO2max has gone from 42 to 46 in 3 months. No question my aerobic capacity has greater now than it has been since my college days.

Are you seeing results with your current training routine? If so, keep doing it until you feel that you may have stalled. THEN up the ante and go with HIIT. By that time, your VO2max will be higher and your stamina greater, so any concerns re: HIIT intensity will be less.

Seond comment: don't lift after cardio. Lift BEFORE cardio.

Cardio is aerobic, and uses both carbohydrates and fat as energy sources - it will always use carbs first, then dip into your fat stores as your blood gylcogen becomes depleted. Lifting is predominantly anaerobic, and uses carbs almost exclusively (the exception to this rule are if you lift hard and fast, getting your HR up into the aerobic ranges). Therefore, if you lift first, you will deplete your blood glycogen and get your HR up into the low 100s.

Also, you will have better lifts if you do not pre-exhaust yourself an cardio - think about it. You will lift more weight, and will still have enough juice to finish your MISS. The other way around, your weights and reps will be reduced because you're already tired out from cardio.

Cardio done right after the completion of your lifting will take advantage of 1) your elevated HR and 2) the fact that your blood glycogen is depleted, forcing your body to use fat stores as energy. Just by reversing the order, you do the same or better at weights, then burn a higher amount of body fat.

Max heart rates are highly variable, and the original research that the predictions are based off of was never really meant for that purpose and was based on out of shape people IIRC anyway (Zen can step in and give us the history I'm sure).

HIIT is hard. It can hurt. But I actually enjoy the challenge.

If you are concerned about your heart, get checked out before you start.

But if you decide to do this, IMO you will be confusing yourself if you worry too much about watching your heart rate. Just go as hard as you can for the "on" interval, then back off and recover. Starting out, be conservative and do a 1:3 ratio of work and recovery, so maybe :30 hard, 1:30 easy. Don't go too long. Maybe start with 5 intervals between a couple of minutes of warmup and a couple of minutes of cooldown. So you'll have 4 minutes of warmup/cool down and 10 minutes of work/recovery intervals (actually less if you subtract the last recovery window or include it in the 2 minute cooldown). After a week or two, add another interval and keep doing so until you get up to 20 minutes of intervals or so. Then you can increase the interval time to maybe :35 and reduce recovery to maybe 1:25. Etc. Maybe back down on the number of intervals when you increase the time, then add intervals back in a week or two at the longer time.

Most people underestimate what they can do and back off on the intervals when they start. Part of the process is learning what you can push through, and it's very rewarding to watch yourself do better and better over time.

IMO, treadmills are not good for HIIT. It takes too long for the speeds to change. You can get used to it, but it's not as easy to adjust speeds as you tire at the end of the interval and between on and off sessions. Bikes, ellipticals, and sprint/walks on real ground or hill/stair climbs on real hills/stairs are easier to do.

Vicky:

At 22 and female, your max heart rate should be 225 - age, or about 200 bpm. Therefore, 170 bpm on your exercises is 85% of your maxHR. This is pretty high, as you may have already guessed based on your comment about being winded afterwards. This is an excellent range for cardioascular training, as it will increase your VO2max when done consistently for a couple months.

I have been using this same strategy (30 min SS on the stair stepper at 150-155 bpm, which for my age is 85-88% maxHR). My VO2max has gone from 42 to 46 in 3 months. No question my aerobic capacity has greater now than it has been since my college days.

Are you seeing results with your current training routine? If so, keep doing it until you feel that you may have stalled. THEN up the ante and go with HIIT. By that time, your VO2max will be higher and your stamina greater, so any concerns re: HIIT intensity will be less.


Thanks Kevin!

I also think that 166-170 bpm is a good range for cardiovascular training :tu:. The way I've been tracking my results is to use that range as a base and increase the intensity of the cardio session. For example, I am currently running that 6.6 mph on the treadmill, which puts my heart rate in between that range. My next step then, would be to increase it to, say, 6.8 mph and train at that speed until my HR falls into that range again. The amount of time remains constant at 16 mins with a 4-min cool down. I have been training this way for a few months now. Back in January, my starting speed was 6.0 mph. Since then, I think my VO2max has definitely increased.

I think I do things a little weird, being that most people track their results using time as the variable. Should I be doing that way too? I like my method because it makes me feel like I'm maxing out my effort rather than just pro-longing what I'm already doing. I remember prior to my journey, I would run on the treadmill all sorts of weird ways and it would drain me. I'm not a very fast runner.. yet, so maybe in about another 2 weeks time, I will be able to do HIIT at, say, 7.0 mph and work from there using speed as the variable.

Hopefully all of that made sense. :confused:

HIIT is hard. It can hurt. But I actually enjoy the challenge.

If you are concerned about your heart, get checked out before you start.

I enjoy challenges also. I'm not too concerned with my heart as I'm confident that once I get through the first few weeks I won't find it that hard.

But if you decide to do this, IMO you will be confusing yourself if you worry too much about watching your heart rate. Just go as hard as you can for the "on" interval, then back off and recover. Starting out, be conservative and do a 1:3 ratio of work and recovery, so maybe :30 hard, 1:30 easy. Don't go too long. Maybe start with 5 intervals between a couple of minutes of warmup and a couple of minutes of cooldown. So you'll have 4 minutes of warmup/cool down and 10 minutes of work/recovery intervals (actually less if you subtract the last recovery window or include it in the 2 minute cooldown). After a week or two, add another interval and keep doing so until you get up to 20 minutes of intervals or so. Then you can increase the interval time to maybe :35 and reduce recovery to maybe 1:25. Etc. Maybe back down on the number of intervals when you increase the time, then add intervals back in a week or two at the longer time.

You just going to ask how I should go about doing it with regards to intervals. I might try a 1:3 ratio of maybe 1 minute work and 3 minutes recovery being that the treadmill does take a while to adjust speeds. I've become very fond of the treadmill and I don't mind experimenting with it. If it does bother me, I'll move to an elliptical.

Like I said, I'll probably do another week or two of MISS in which I will increase the speed each week, keeping my time constant, to get my VO2max up a little more, than attempt HIIT.

At 22 and female, your max heart rate should be 225 - age, or about 200 bpm.

The age based heart rate formulae are just useless. I'm just about 50 and can get my heart rate over 190. My lactate threshold is around 177, which is higher than my predicted "maximum" heart rate. This is actually pretty common, and so is the reverse (lower MHR than predicted).

It also doesn't really matter too much whether your MHR is higher or lower than predicted as far as fitness or burning Calories goes.

What does matter is getting your heart rate up high whatever that means for you.

You just going to ask how I should go about doing it with regards to intervals. I might try a 1:3 ratio of maybe 1 minute work and 3 minutes recovery being that the treadmill does take a while to adjust speeds.

One minute is a long interval to truly go all out on to start with for most. A beginner with HIIT will lose the "high" on an interval that long, so it becomes just interval training. Nothing wrong with that, but it's not HIIT. I would still recommend a shorter "on" time.

Like I said, I'll probably do another week or two of MISS in which I will increase the speed each week, keeping my time constant, to get my VO2max up a little more, than attempt HIIT.

Not much will improve VO2max faster than HIIT. Google "Tabata study". Tabata is a short and very challenging protocol that showed in studies to be very efficient at increasing VO2max.

The age based heart rate formulae are just useless. I'm just about 50 and can get my heart rate over 190. My lactate threshold is around 177, which is higher than my predicted "maximum" heart rate.

I mean this as a compliment - you, sir, are not normal. The maxHR data was never intended for extremely fit individuals, as they are almost always outside of the norm. Based on your posted stats, and having perused your journal, I think your personal experiences are unique. The poster is still in the newbie phase, and thus these guidelines are perfectly appropriate until she outgrows them. (and kudos on the correct pluralization of formula ...)

What does matter is getting your heart rate up high whatever that means for you.
Agreed. But that doesn't mean what she is currently doing is not helpful, and from my experiences with HIIT, I find that it may be better to build a stronger cardiovascular "base" before taking HIIT on.

My 2 cents on this - I would think that she will derive as much (or more) benefit from 30 minutes at 170 bpm as she might with 5-6 1 minute sprints in a HIIT session. However, she should try HIIT and see if it is her cup of tea. I did it for a while, but abandoned it in favor of longer, high HR steady state cardio.

I mean this as a compliment - you, sir, are not normal.

Agreed.

Agreed. But that doesn't mean what she is currently doing is not helpful, and from my experiences with HIIT, I find that it may be better to build a stronger cardiovascular "base" before taking HIIT on.

I think there is some level of out of shape that doesn't need to be doing HIIT initially, but IMO, if she's doing what she says she is doing now, she's fine to jump into HIIT. HIIT will improve cardio fitness very quickly, faster than most alternatives. It's got a lot of studies saying that behind it. And it also is one of the best fat shedding tools in the shed.

I'd actually probably rotate for awhile myself. One HIIT workout, one MISS.

I'd actually probably rotate for awhile myself. One HIIT workout, one MISS.

That's actually what I've thought of doing, :nod:. Maybe I can do that in the beginning stages of my HIIT journey to see how my body feels towards it? :confused:

Let's simply agree that her cardio is HIIT or MISS :lol:!

Let's simply agree that her cardio is HIIT or MISS :lol:!

HAH! Took me a minute to get that one :lol:

i feel the same way vicky does. at steady state, i also feel that my heart rate already is pretty high and it's enough. whether that is near the max rate can't be calculated with some rigid formula because it varies from people to people. i am 30, but it's really hard for me to get my heart rate above 170. however i haven't been doing this for long, so i figure it will go up. i usually top out at 160-170, and it does give me a good work out. plus i do fasted morning cardio so i don't try to go extreme towards the HIIT flavor.

i read this written by john in the training info section, and he went with perceived effort rather than some numerical value.

"Cardio Workouts

The HIIT workouts I used do are based on perceived effort, not heart rate. I do use my heart rate to help "keep me honest". For example, if I'm on my 90% or 100% intervals, but my heart rate is not pretty close to its maximum, I try to push even harder.

...Heart rate and perceived effort are, of course, related; however, the relationship changes depending on what equipment you are using. As mentioned above, I rely more on perceived effort than heart rate. The heart rate monitor comes in handy mostly when I do aerobic-level cardio workouts and I'm trying to stay at 70% of my maximum heart rate for the entire 50 minutes. Honestly, when I do HIIT cardio I could leave the monitor off and still get just as effective a workout.

Here are a few HIIT workouts I like to do:
45 seconds 60% effort
45 seconds 100% effort
... repeat for 9-18 minutes total. "


btw, how important is warmup/cooldown? i warm up for few minutes, but i rarely cooldown, being so impatient i let it drop to about 150s and then just get off the machine. is that bad?

When I do HIIT I normally hit 200bpm to 220bpm sometimes doing twenty sprints in a session. Feels great as long as you are pusing yourself and breathing heavy you know you are doing a good job.

i know i'm digging up an old thread, but this info has been helpful to me and wanted to say thanks. i know the op was concerned about hiit because of her heart.

i was very concerned about consuming muscle by doing cardio after weights (i try to do hiit...but end up doing miss due to my current fitness level) and this helped alleviate my concerns. i figure if my heart gives out while i'm at the gym....that looks a lot better than if it were to give out at a buffet or something....

usually I'm too tired from lifting to want to do HIIT, but the other way around is never a problem. I always get a great boost from HIIT.