I'm going to be going on a couple of road trips this month and I think a new flash player would do me some good. I've got it down to these two:

Creative Zen 32 GB (http://www.amazon.com/Creative-Portable-Media-Player-Black/dp/B0012YPMOC/ref=pd_bbs_sr_4?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1215475811&sr=8-4)

or the ITouch, I don't think a link is necessary.

I'm not sure which one to get. I think the ITouch might get a price drop when the phone comes out, pure speculation though.

I would be using the player for music and audio books. The ITouch would be nice because of the internet thing and the widgets I could get. I don't actually need internet capabilities (but then again I don't really NEED a player either) but it would be nice to have, when I'm too lazy to get off my couch to my PC, or at Barnes and Noble.

I would just like to get some different perspectives. Thanks.

The only negative I've heard about the Zen is that it doesn't integrate the micro SD card very well into the rest of your stuff.

On the other hand, at least it has expandable memory.

I'm not an ipod guy, though. All my players are non-Apple cult players. Nothing wrong with Apple stuff obviously, but I've never liked the attempt at a walled garden (which is also why I've avoided Zunes...although I could eventually sway I suppose).

do they both play audio books well?

If I was going to drop some cash on a new MP3 player - I'd get the Cowon iAudio 7. Rave reviews on all fronts (including superior sound quality), loaded with features, incredible battery life, small size, flash drive, and good company reputation.

do they both play audio books well?

I've got a Creative Zen V+, and until recently it's been a decent audio book player, but it has some failings like bookmark not keeping the whole file list of a book, only a particular file. But better than my Sansa e280.

Apple plays very nice with audible.com downloads, but would not support library downloads like I have available that are .wma files with DRM. That would kill it for me personally, as that's how I get a ton of free books. If you rip your own from CD, I think it would be fine but I've never used one.

For audiobooks I just bought a Sandisk Sansa Clip 4GB for $66, and while it's got a couple of minor things I'd like changed (sort by artist on books instead of title for example), it's a great audiobook/podcast player for cheap after I updated the firmware. The 1 or 2 GB versions are so cheap they are almost disposable, and are small enough to be an excellent gym player.

But as mentioned above, the Cowon's are supposed to be good, too. I think Zen swears by his, but I've never used one.

If I was going to drop some cash on a new MP3 player - I'd get the Cowon iAudio 7. Rave reviews on all fronts (including superior sound quality), loaded with features, incredible battery life, small size, flash drive, and good company reputation.

I've got a Creative Zen V+, and until recently it's been a decent audio book player, but it has some failings like bookmark not keeping the whole file list of a book, only a particular file. But better than my Sansa e280.

Apple plays very nice with audible.com downloads, but would not support library downloads like I have available that are .wma files with DRM. That would kill it for me personally, as that's how I get a ton of free books. If you rip your own from CD, I think it would be fine but I've never used one.

For audiobooks I just bought a Sandisk Sansa Clip 4GB for $66, and while it's got a couple of minor things I'd like changed (sort by artist on books instead of title for example), it's a great audiobook/podcast player for cheap after I updated the firmware. The 1 or 2 GB versions are so cheap they are almost disposable, and are small enough to be an excellent gym player.

But as mentioned above, the Cowon's are supposed to be good, too. I think Zen swears by his, but I've never used one.


You guys gave me more options, cheaper too. I'll be spending some time looking through the info. Maybe Zen will post here later too.

Thanks

Oh and I guess I should ask about what to use so I can hear it in the car.

Oh and I guess I should ask about what to use so I can hear it in the car.

If the car has an aux in (or for an ipod, and ipod interface), that's the best option. If not and it has a cassette player, you can get one of those adapters that you connect through.

Failing that, you are stuck with an FM transmitter which are hit or miss in my experience. I'd personally rather use ear buds than one of those. Of course if you aren't by yourself, that's another story.

I actually plan on getting the creative as soon as my 1st gen ipod nano dies (it's holding up quite nicely), but from what you said you need it for it's all audio so you don't really need the screen of the creative or the itouch. Just to say all your options consider the current ipod nano, flash zune, and the previously mentioned cowon iaudio7, all of which I've heard good things about.

I've been taking a look at some reviews and the Cowon and the Zen are pretty much the same price and do the same things but the pictures on the Zen are supposedley better. One thing I didn't like was that I read the Zen isn't too sturdy. I can't find any for sale in El Paso so I can't really confirm this.

I also kind of like how the Sansa Clip works but I'm not sure if 4GB is too little.

Still haven't made a decision.

I've been taking a look at some reviews and the Cowon and the Zen are pretty much the same price and do the same things but the pictures on the Zen are supposedley better. One thing I didn't like was that I read the Zen isn't too sturdy. I can't find any for sale in El Paso so I can't really confirm this.

I also kind of like how the Sansa Clip works but I'm not sure if 4GB is too little.

Still haven't made a decision.

For books, the clip is perfect sized if you encode right. I don't think I'd use it as my sole music player. It's more like the second car :)

If you wanted to save a bit and have a nice gym player plus a more full featured player, you could get the 16GB Zen (or equivalent Cowon) and the Clip both.

BTW, a good place to read up on non-Apple stuff is:

www.anythingbutipod.com (http://www.anythingbutipod.com)

Good reviews and the best non-Apple forums I've found.

For books, the clip is perfect sized if you encode right. I don't think I'd use it as my sole music player. It's more like the second car :)

If you wanted to save a bit and have a nice gym player plus a more full featured player, you could get the 16GB Zen (or equivalent Cowon) and the Clip both.

BTW, a good place to read up on non-Apple stuff is:

www.anythingbutipod.com (http://www.anythingbutipod.com)

Good reviews and the best non-Apple forums I've found.\:tucool:

I've made progress. I got it down to the Cowon D2 but I don't know how much memory I want. 4GB, 8GB, or 16GB. I could always get the SDHC card and that would add another 8GB.

I can also see what MB means about having another back up "car". The Sansa Clip is great for gym use. But I can't decide between the 2GB or the 4GB. The 4GB doesn't have a screen but you get 2 extra GB's for only 20 more bucks.

Decisions. Decisions.

The 4GB doesn't have a screen...

:confused: Say what? So what's all this stuff I read on mine in blue and yellow?

:confused: Say what? So what's all this stuff I read on mine in blue and yellow?

Really? It's just that it doesn't look like it has one when I look at it online. The silver one (http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Sansa-Clip-Player-Silver/dp/B00126V8WU/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1215652214&sr=8-3)?

I've made progress. I got it down to the Cowon D2 but I don't know how much memory I want. 4GB, 8GB, or 16GB. I could always get the SDHC card and that would add another 8GB.

I can also see what MB means about having another back up "car". The Sansa Clip is great for gym use. But I can't decide between the 2GB or the 4GB. The 4GB doesn't have a screen but you get 2 extra GB's for only 20 more bucks.

Decisions. Decisions.


Go for the 16GB. You'll have plenty of space for music, movies, and books. As with any MP3 player, reading from an SD card reduces battery life fairly significantly (15-30% depending on the player and SD card size).

Really? It's just that it doesn't look like it has one when I look at it online. The silver one (http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Sansa-Clip-Player-Silver/dp/B00126V8WU/ref=pd_bbs_sr_3?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1215652214&sr=8-3)?

Yep.

Even on that Amazon page you can see the music menu option and the battery indicator:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41MBaGlG7nL._SL500_AA280_.jpg
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B00126V8WU/sr=8-3/qid=1215652214/ref=dp_image_0?ie=UTF8&n=172282&s=electronics&qid=1215652214&sr=8-3

I'm going to be going on a couple of road trips this month and I think a new flash player would do me some good. I've got it down to these two

I wouldn't get either of those two; but instead I would get a Cowon D2 (now available at 16GB) and also a 16GB SDHC card, or some 8GB SDHC cards.

Of the two you mentioned, I would definitely get the Zen.

But as mentioned above, the Cowon's are supposed to be good, too. I think Zen swears by his, but I've never used one.

Yeah I love the Cowon D2. That's the king of the flash players.

The Sansa clip is also a good suggestion. The other Sansas have micro SD slots but they don't integrate so well otherwise those are good too. I got my son a Sansa View which is nice player.

As far as a really snappy player which does video but is a little pricey, the Sony NWZ-718 or 719 (really pricey but 16GB may be important for people with videos) is an excellent player. I have all my Patrick O'Brian audiobooks on an NWZ-718.

If you like a big screen then Archos 405 Flash, and also 605 Flash players could make sense.

Iriver Clix 2 is nice in some ways especially if you like stylish. I am looking forward to see what Iriver does next (Spinn?).

But the "go to" player for me is the D2. Books, podcasts, music, videos, it's all good for the D2.

I've made progress. I got it down to the Cowon D2 but I don't know how much memory I want. 4GB, 8GB, or 16GB. I could always get the SDHC card and that would add another 8GB.

Sorry, I should have read ahead. The 16GB D2 is a good enough deal I would get that one. You can always get SDHC cards to expand as time goes on and those prices drop - 32GB SDHC are just starting to show up at affordable prices and the 16GB SDHC are getting to what I would call cheap. And the D2 is good at using the SDHC card.

I decided I'm going to get the Cowon D2 (16 bit). But I hit a snag, my front wheel is making a weird cracking noise. I'm going to call and see if my warranty covers it. If it doesn't then no MP3 for me.

Thanks for the help.

I settled on the Cowon D2 as well -- though the 8MB. It has been great following this thread and some more posts on Mannishboy's thread (I think that was the one.) Thanks Zen for your observations and links.

I am in Israel at the moment and I am waiting for my partner to bring it to me. The price difference between the 8 and 16 was enough to make me decide on the 8. I figure in a year or so there will be another sufficient improvement that I will want to get a new one.

But I haven't yet gotten into ripping music, etc on to an MP3. I ma sitting here with a 3 year old iRiver on which I have only listened to the radio and that has been just in the last week. :o

It's hard work trying to say young!!! :lol: ;)

By the way a couple of the flash players I have can only use something called Tags to organize mp3 content. It turns out that most of the audiobook mp3s I have are "tagged" in a useless and stupid way. This really makes the players which can use folders as opposed to playlists nicer for me, but every once in a while I get the idea that I would like to fix these "tags". The only thing I have which I think can edit these tags is Windows Media Player, and it's almost impossible to make sense of - there is no easy way to deal with files that are already badly tagged - is there a way to tell the WMP just to use the folders I have stuff in to generate the tags? So far, it is almost completely resistant to anything like this. I have the files organized by folders just fine.

By the way a couple of the flash players I have can only use something called Tags to organize mp3 content. It turns out that most of the audiobook mp3s I have are "tagged" in a useless and stupid way. This really makes the players which can use folders as opposed to playlists nicer for me, but every once in a while I get the idea that I would like to fix these "tags". The only thing I have which I think can edit these tags is Windows Media Player, and it's almost impossible to make sense of - there is no easy way to deal with files that are already badly tagged - is there a way to tell the WMP just to use the folders I have stuff in to generate the tags? So far, it is almost completely resistant to anything like this. I have the files organized by folders just fine.

The Clip handles audiobooks and podcasts automatic bookmarking by two methods:

1) Place them in the "Audiobook" or "Podcast" folder (manual process)
2) Make sure the genre tag is "audiobook" or "podcast", then they get mixed in with the regular music, but still keep bookmarks.

Anything other way, and they just act like music and don't bookmark. I go with option one, but I change the tags as well.

I always change my audiobooks tags with either Media Monkey (http://www.mediamonkey.com/) or MP3Tag (http://www.mp3tag.de/en/index.html). Both programs work great for this as well as adding album art into the MP3 file, and many other ID3 tag changes.

1) Place them in the "Audiobook" or "Podcast" folder (manual process)
2) Make sure the genre tag is "audiobook" or "podcast", then they get mixed in with the regular music, but still keep bookmarks.

Anything other way, and they just act like music and don't bookmark. I go with option one, but I change the tags as well.

I always change my audiobooks tags with either Media Monkey (http://www.mediamonkey.com/) or MP3Tag (http://www.mp3tag.de/en/index.html). Both programs work great for this as well as adding album art into the MP3 file, and many other ID3 tag changes.

The options of putting the files in a special folder is not useful for me since it's not uniform across players.

But the MP3Tag tool did the trick about a minute, including how long it took me to install and figure out how to use MP3Tag for this operation. I simply change the Album tag on the audiobooks from the useless name of the publisher (same for almost all my audiobooks) to the title of the book and the Artist to the Author. I just checked by moving all my Patrick O'Brian books over to the Sansa e280 and it worked fine.

I don't really need bookmark functionality on the player since these books come in the form of dozens of little files each about ten minutes long.

Amazing how much more painful using Windows Media Player to do tags.

The options of putting the files in a special folder is not useful for me since it's not uniform across players.

But the MP3Tag tool did the trick about a minute, including how long it took me to install and figure out how to use MP3Tag for this operation. I simply change the Album tag on the audiobooks from the useless name of the publisher (same for almost all my audiobooks) to the title of the book and the Artist to the Author. I just checked by moving all my Patrick O'Brian books over to the Sansa e280 and it worked fine.

I don't really need bookmark functionality on the player since these books come in the form of dozens of little files each about ten minutes long.

Amazing how much more painful using Windows Media Player to do tags.

WMP is horrible for tag management.

I've used MP3Tag for awhile. I've recently just been using Media Monkey though, because the latest release is pretty clean and works pretty well for tag management and synching the player. Better than Winamp, which I've used forever.

I get a lot of long filed wma audiobooks from the library download site, and it's a pain to deal with on the e280 for me because if you ever screw up and don't cut it off right and it loses it's place, or you have to fast forward through an hour file, the e280 is a real pain because it doesn't speed up as you scan.

That's why I switched to the Zen V+ for audiobooks, and eventually the Clip, which I'm extremely happy with for this purpose. There are a couple nitpicks I have about it (for instance: books won't sort on author, only title), but overall for the $66 I paid, it's great. I'll use my others for music.

I get a lot of long filed wma audiobooks from the library download site, and it's a pain to deal with on the e280 for me because if you ever screw up and don't cut it off right and it loses it's place, or you have to fast forward through an hour file, the e280 is a real pain because it doesn't speed up as you scan.

That's why I switched to the Zen V+ for audiobooks, and eventually the Clip, which I'm extremely happy with for this purpose. There are a couple nitpicks I have about it (for instance: books won't sort on author, only title), but overall for the $66 I paid, it's great. I'll use my others for music.

Yeah the e280 is definitely old school, but with the short filed audiobooks it is good enough. I am thinking about getting one or two more 16GB SDHC cards now that the price of them has dropped again; then I can use the D2 for everything. But since I actually still have the e280, it's nice to have a use for it.