I just started doing squats again after quite awhile off. To be honest, even when I was working out all the time I avoided squats. Well, now that I have a Smith rack in my home gym figured I'd go ahead and try them. The problem is, even with very little weight (140lbs) my knees kill me about half way into the squat. Last week when I did legs I worked through the pain and got my sets. Tonight I got through my first set of 12 and my second set of 10 I only got 4 reps in before I had to stop. I feel like my form is good and I'm not going too fast. Any ideas or hints take the pain out of my knees so I can concentrate the efforts where they should be? TIA

Are your knees coming out ahead of your toes, and are you pushing from your heels? I notice that if I don't sit back properly into the squat, I feel pressure in my knees. I dunno about the smith machine though...I've never tried them with a smith.

When I saw the thread title. A few things went through my head, when thinking of what can be going wrong.
1. You have dicky knees
2. Your Squat form is incorrect
3. Your using a smith machine to squat.

And as luck would have it, you are using a smith machine to do your Squats. The smith machine goes in two directions, up and down, with no allowanced for knee movement which goes left/right/forward/back, now thats a bit simple and i see an iinherent problem right there...

A simple solution, try and find alternatives to the smith to use. If thats not possible, your stance is off track to the smith and have to readjust accordingly. Perhaps someone who squats with a smith here can advise you and how to approach it.

Good luck.
Adam

Are your knees coming out ahead of your toes, and are you pushing from your heels? I notice that if I don't sit back properly into the squat, I feel pressure in my knees. I dunno about the smith machine though...I've never tried them with a smith.

So are you saying push from the heels, or don't?

When I saw the thread title. A few things went through my head, when thinking of what can be going wrong.
1. You have dicky knees
2. Your Squat form is incorrect
3. Your using a smith machine to squat.

And as luck would have it, you are using a smith machine to do your Squats. The smith machine goes in two directions, up and down, with no allowanced for knee movement which goes left/right/forward/back, now thats a bit simple and i see an iinherent problem right there...

A simple solution, try and find alternatives to the smith to use. If thats not possible, your stance is off track to the smith and have to readjust accordingly. Perhaps someone who squats with a smith here can advise you and how to approach it.

Good luck.
Adam

I have an alternative, an extra bar. I was only using the Smith mostly because I've always been worried about squatting free form without a spotter, especially in my basement when nobody else is home if I get down and can't get back up. Maybe I'll lessen the weight and give it a shot and see if there is a difference.

Any thoughts on front squats as opposed to back squats?

Thanks to both of you for your replies.

So are you saying push from the heels, or don't?



I have an alternative, an extra bar. I was only using the Smith mostly because I've always been worried about squatting free form without a spotter, especially in my basement when nobody else is home if I get down and can't get back up. Maybe I'll lessen the weight and give it a shot and see if there is a difference.

Any thoughts on front squats as opposed to back squats?

Thanks to both of you for your replies.

I had an operation on my knee and have a problem with my back so I don't put a barbell on my shoulders anymore. What I've been doing is dumbbell squats. You can't hold as much as a barbell but I found it to be a good workout.
Also I've had knee operations and I used the squat rack before I hurt my back, and had no problems with my knees. Like Joe said, maybe it's the smith.

Front vs Back Squats.

I would work both excersise into a routine, as they both are very good at what they are supposed to target. Back squat probably being the better of the two to do. Based on the only fact that it hurts more.

I think if your legs are long, front squats are often going to work better. I'd definitely recommend breaking from the I Dream Of Genie cross grip and developing the ability to front squat with a clean grip. It is worth the effort, especially if you're going to make it a main exercise. It helps you to learn to keep the elbows high and the upper back tight, the chest open and the bar jammed into your throat, where it belongs. To get your hands out where they go with a clean grip, you are forced to rotate externally at the shoulder.

Back vs Front squat??? I think their on the same team !!!

So are you saying push from the heels, or don't?


Definitely drive through your heels. Alot of knee problems can be alleviated with just small corrections in form. One of the best videos of seen regarding squat form is a vid that somebody posted awhile back from Dan John. You might take a look:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6529481301858251744

Unlike the previous posts I haven't seen problems with the smith machine. I would say that you're not sitting back enough in your squat and using your knees too much for the lift. Something else I thought of might be that you are using too much weight to begin with. You said you never really did lower body lifting (squat anyway) before. Maybe you should start out doing squats (or squat jumps) without any added weight and slowly build to more substantial loads. This will allow your ligaments, tendons, and bones to adapt before your muscles begin to. Muscales adapt to exercise very fast compared to connective tissues. By doing this you remove some risk of injury later, and seeing your track record so far that might be a good thing.

Good luck, and let us all know what works for you.

I just started doing squats again after quite awhile off. To be honest, even when I was working out all the time I avoided squats. Well, now that I have a Smith rack in my home gym figured I'd go ahead and try them. The problem is, even with very little weight (140lbs) my knees kill me about half way into the squat. Last week when I did legs I worked through the pain and got my sets. Tonight I got through my first set of 12 and my second set of 10 I only got 4 reps in before I had to stop. I feel like my form is good and I'm not going too fast. Any ideas or hints take the pain out of my knees so I can concentrate the efforts where they should be? TIA

Put the front of your toes 6-8" in front of bar with feet turned slightly outward shoulder width apart. The push is from the heels. keep your upper body muscles rigid and your torso upright during exercise, focus on a spot on the wall at high level. don't let your upper body bend forward when you rise out of bottom position. Try a hack squat also to see its effect.:cool:

Watch these and make sure your form is correct. I recently just realized I goodmorning out of my squats which is why my lower back has some pain in it. My guess is that you might not have form down.

http://youtube.com/view_play_list?p=C03D688F10C4DE1F

Watch these and make sure your form is correct. I recently just realized I goodmorning out of my squats which is why my lower back has some pain in it. My guess is that you might not have form down.

http://youtube.com/view_play_list?p=C03D688F10C4DE1F

He is doing a squat on a smith machine. I don't totally discount that he might have form wrong to safely do a smith squat, but i don't see him somehow "good morning" out of the bottom of the squat. Probably becuase you can't move the bar forward enough to get the good morning movement.

OP - Restes has some good advice on squatting in a smith machine, if it works and your knee pain is gone that awesome. If it's not, then your only option is to squat outside the smith machine cage. You mentioned that your worried about safety, what equipment are you using ?

I had an operation on my knee and have a problem with my back so I don't put a barbell on my shoulders anymore. What I've been doing is dumbbell squats. You can't hold as much as a barbell but I found it to be a good workout.
Also I've had knee operations and I used the squat rack before I hurt my back, and had no problems with my knees. Like Joe said, maybe it's the smith.

I think I'll try dumbell or front barbell squats and see if that helps.. thanks for the input.

Front vs Back Squats.

I would work both exercise into a routine, as they both are very good at what they are supposed to target. Back squat probably being the better of the two to do. Based on the only fact that it hurts more.

I think if your legs are long, front squats are often going to work better. I'd definitely recommend breaking from the I Dream Of Genie cross grip and developing the ability to front squat with a clean grip. It is worth the effort, especially if you're going to make it a main exercise. It helps you to learn to keep the elbows high and the upper back tight, the chest open and the bar jammed into your throat, where it belongs. To get your hands out where they go with a clean grip, you are forced to rotate externally at the shoulder.

Back vs Front squat??? I think their on the same team !!!

Thanks, yes I do have long legs, I'm 6'4" I'll give front squats a shot.


Definitely drive through your heels. Alot of knee problems can be alleviated with just small corrections in form. One of the best videos of seen regarding squat form is a vid that somebody posted awhile back from Dan John. You might take a look:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6529481301858251744

I'll check out the video, thanks..

Unlike the previous posts I haven't seen problems with the smith machine. I would say that you're not sitting back enough in your squat and using your knees too much for the lift. Something else I thought of might be that you are using too much weight to begin with. You said you never really did lower body lifting (squat anyway) before. Maybe you should start out doing squats (or squat jumps) without any added weight and slowly build to more substantial loads. This will allow your ligaments, tendons, and bones to adapt before your muscles begin to. Muscales adapt to exercise very fast compared to connective tissues. By doing this you remove some risk of injury later, and seeing your track record so far that might be a good thing.

Good luck, and let us all know what works for you.

My wife who is a physical therapist recommended the same thing, to start without a weight. I am 298lbs and didn't take into consideration that I'm squatting a good portion of my body weight already.

Put the front of your toes 6-8" in front of bar with feet turned slightly outward shoulder width apart. The push is from the heels. keep your upper body muscles rigid and your torso upright during exercise, focus on a spot on the wall at high level. don't let your upper body bend forward when you rise out of bottom position. Try a hack squat also to see its effect.:cool:

Thanks..

Watch these and make sure your form is correct. I recently just realized I goodmorning out of my squats which is why my lower back has some pain in it. My guess is that you might not have form down.

http://youtube.com/view_play_list?p=C03D688F10C4DE1F

I'll check it out, thanks.

He is doing a squat on a smith machine. I don't totally discount that he might have form wrong to safely do a smith squat, but i don't see him somehow "good morning" out of the bottom of the squat. Probably becuase you can't move the bar forward enough to get the good morning movement.

OP - Restes has some good advice on squatting in a smith machine, if it works and your knee pain is gone that awesome. If it's not, then your only option is to squat outside the smith machine cage. You mentioned that your worried about safety, what equipment are you using ?

Here's a pic of my setup.. For dumbells I have a set of PowerBlocks that go from 20-60lbs. I do have a spare olympic bar that came with the 300lb set of weights when I bought them.

http://tsa.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/p4172935dt.jpg

I think you could definately be safe while squatting free weight in that set up. Unless i am mistaken. Those safetys that are around hip height would suit Squats as if you go low and get stuck... Practice with a light weight, dump it in the safetys.