Yes, I'm sure this sounds a bit like a stupid and redundant question; however, I'm honestly having a problem with this.

Here is why. I'm running into two problems.

1: My core and abs (same thing?) are weak. There are a TON of exercises but I don't know enough to make or find a basic ab work out that hits all the muscles.

2: I don't know WHEN to fit the exercises in! I'm dead by the time I finish my upper body and I'm reeeeaally dead when I finish my lower body exercises. Deadlifts, squats, bench... I'm destroyed but my core and abs need work. How often and how do you guys do it?

:bow: Thanks to any tips on this.

If it's any help to you, I'm on a 4 day split and abs come on chest day, after I am done with all of my chest exercises.

I squat and deadlift. My abs are always tight after doing those two exercises. No need to isolate at all.

I squat and deadlift. My abs are always tight after doing those two exercises. No need to isolate at all.
+1.

Agreed. Although I will occasionally (maybe once every couple of weeks) throw in leg lifts and crunches if I'm not tired, but it's always at the end of the workout.

-R

IMO, way too many spend way too much time training abs :nod:

Do the big lifts like squats and deads. Overhead pressing while standing, etc, and you'll get 80% of what you need.

I probably do at most 2-3 sets of "ab" work a week, and it's concentrated on stuff for stability and not flexon (like crunches). Stuff like planks, dead bugs, dragon flags. IMO, too much flexon work isn't always the best for the back if done without back work to offset it.

I do 4 sets of 15 inverted hang sit-ups every day using gravity boots. Looks odd, but works well.

I squat and deadlift. My abs are always tight after doing those two exercises. No need to isolate at all.

Yup. Same here. I quit doing ab isolation work a long time ago.

What's your current routine and lifting schedule like? We can better help you construct a routine and find time to fit it in if we know what your program is currently.

While many people eventually navigate away from much direct or conventional ab work, I think it's a benefit to perform it pretty intensely when you first start training. Most beginners simply don't lift enough weight in a variety of the essential compound exercises frequently enough to receive the same benefits that stronger individuals do. You need to establish a base of strength, a sufficient work capacity, and teach your midsection how to function properly in the first place. So, I may disagree with the posters saying that little to no direct ab work is needed depending on where you are in your own training history and what types of training you perform.

Planks, weighted hyperextensions, and weighted decline situps for direct work.

Otherwise, do squats and overhead presses while focusing on tensing the core. BIG difference. Keeping the core tense while doing the presses will make you move a little less weight, but it will be better for you in the end.

I superset leg lifts with back extensions on upper body days and superset obliques of some sort with back extensions on lower body days. I will skip this part of my work out if I am running late or really tired but I don't see it as a big detriment if I do.

Can I see a six pack yet? No, I'm working on getting my body fat lower but it's a slow process these days.

Yes, I'm sure this sounds a bit like a stupid and redundant question; however, I'm honestly having a problem with this.

Here is why. I'm running into two problems.

1: My core and abs (same thing?) are weak. There are a TON of exercises but I don't know enough to make or find a basic ab work out that hits all the muscles.

2: I don't know WHEN to fit the exercises in! I'm dead by the time I finish my upper body and I'm reeeeaally dead when I finish my lower body exercises. Deadlifts, squats, bench... I'm destroyed but my core and abs need work. How often and how do you guys do it?

:bow: Thanks to any tips on this.

Core and abs are not the same.

I don't do much direct ab work.

If you want an ab exercise I would suggest hanging leg raises.

If you want core exercises there are many. Pushups with dumbell lifts is usually interesting for a change.

Back when he was younger Serge Nubret did 2000 sit ups a day. That was pretty much his cardiovascular exercise also.

In the modern day (and as many have already mentioned) abs shouldn't be a prime focus. I would say do crunches, situps, leg raises, reverse crunches maybe 1-3 days a week. Also as mentioned squats and deadlifts are great :)

2000 situps?

Personally I think thats a waste of time.

I don't do any ab work at all. I quit when I started deadlifting and squatting.

Core and abs are not the same.

I don't do much direct ab work.

If you want an ab exercise I would suggest hanging leg raises.

If you want core exercises there are many. Pushups with dumbell lifts is usually interesting for a change.
I've noticed pushups do well to work your abs as well as your core. Many standing free weight exercises should work your core also.

Reverse crunches and when you get good at those go on to dragon flags.

My work out is listed here http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?t=42909

My current workout is at the BOTTOM of the page.

So I don't actually need to do abs and core, it is already usually hit by major exercises? Didn't know that at all... I'd still like to do some of the exercises though. I'll have to check those exercises out. I always had trouble hitting obliques though.

Link (http://musclemedia.com/training/BootCamp.asp)

Though you should probably note that the article is aimed at pro BB'ers looking to get in contest shape(or so it claims) so I don't know how good it is for people seeking abs for the first time

I do Core work before every workout, takes 5-10 mins. I have been doing this since I had a lower back muscle tear in the fall and it has paid dividends, I no longer have any pain with squats, deadlifts etc. and my form and flexibility have improved.

Right now I superset Reverse situps on a bench, weighted crunches on a bench, planks on a bosu with knee tucks, and swiss ball hyperextensions to either side.

I used to follow the simple, sagittal plane lifting mentality of squats, deads, standing presses, etc. and thought that that was all that was necessary because hell, I could see my abs and they got sore every once in a while.

Well think about what really happens when you are stabilizing your body in an awkard situation, such as moving furniture in any direction aside from up and down. Consider what happens when a load is uneven. I suggest to everyone who preaches to be an advanced lifter but speaks against core activation to go and catch a single kettlebell (or dumbbell) in a front squat position and perform a set of 20 reps on each side. Try it with a snatch grip. Try taking a walk around with that weight in a snatch grip. Then do walking lunges with it like that. Try some cross-body plyometrics. Heaven forbid that I mention a stability ball. There's so much you could do with a stability ball. Find a list of exercises for it, try them, if they are hard, do them, if not, discard them. That's what training is, isn't it, people? We challenge ourselves until we reach new peaks, right? I hope so.

With all of this you are definitely out of the realm of the straight forward ab-activation from doing the same old lifts. I can only say all of this because I used to be of the same mindset up until about 2 months ago when I realized what being stubborn was doing for my progress. Forget about sit ups but don't forget the function of the trunk of your body, to stabilize in all types of situations, not just the sagittal plane exercises.

My work out is listed here http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?t=42909

My current workout is at the BOTTOM of the page.

So I don't actually need to do abs and core, it is already usually hit by major exercises? Didn't know that at all... I'd still like to do some of the exercises though. I'll have to check those exercises out. I always had trouble hitting obliques though.

Then side planks are for you!
If you make sure your belly button is glued to your spine throughout all your other exercises, this will help as well, otherwise I do planks, leg extensions, leg raises, and cable crunches- I really enjoy these last three exercises particularly.

If you make sure your belly button is glued to your spine throughout all your other exercises, this will help as well

:nono:

You want your abs tensed, not pulled in. The pulled in ab idea is kind of old news and is not the safe way to do things as it gives you less core support.

I've noticed pushups do well to work your abs as well as your core. Many standing free weight exercises should work your core also.

True, but some are more serious than others. Pushups with dumbell rows are a very simple way to expose your core:

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So I don't actually need to do abs and core, it is already usually hit by major exercises?

You don't need to do abs directly. Core is a little different, you might have to do more work for core.