Hi all.

I'm a music major currently, and realized that I'm heading down the road to a horrendously sedentary lifestyle. At 18 years old, 6'1" and 272 lbs (~20% BF, but I'm not 100% confident in that measurement), I'm in pretty bad shape and so I decided to take control of my life and get working on improving it. I eventually stumbled upon this forum and find it amazing.

I started doing cardio on tuesday for the first time in a few years, and today I did my first weight training.

I'm following the Stronglifts (http://stronglifts.com/stronglifts-5x5-beginner-strength-training-program/) program for that, and I'm surprised really at how much squats kicked my ass (in a good way). I'm a little worried that, in general, I might have my forms wrong, especially as tonight I'm noticing an unpleasant pain in my elbow (the joint). I'm not really sure what to do about this, as I'm not sure who to go to for help in real life for form and I'm not sure just an online source is good enough to tell me how to do it right. Any advice?

While I didn't do cardio on wednesday (I hadn't made up my mind about how serious I was about losing weight until later that night), I've woken up really early and done morning cardio for only about 20 minutes the last two days. I realize that's not nearly enough for much effect, especially since it's technically LISS, but my heart rate was wayyy up (~176 most of the time, that's ~82% or so?) and I believe that's around the heart rate area you are aiming for with HIIT? I do plan on improving the time as much as I can so I can get up to at least 30 minutes as soon as possible... but should I worry about the low time I can handle for now even though my heart rate is so high? Is seven days a week of morning cardio too much for a beginner?


On the diet side of things, I think I've got the ideas generally down but I've got a few questions...
I'm noticing my protein intake is awfully low, despite my best efforts to eat a lot more of it. Somewhere around 25% of my diet was protein yesterday which just doesn't cut it... when fat, while mainly mono, was pretty high too (though I quesiton fitday's measuring accuracy just because the foods are far too broad. For instance, I make asparagus with a very small amount of olive oil and roast it in the oven and the only close option is boiled + butter. :confused: ). Anyways, besides working on my diet some more in general (I scheduled an appointment with a nutritionist in a couple weeks to get some personal 1 on 1 help), I've been reading a lot about protein shakes. Are they really neccesary? What would be the best kind to get?

I'm a little worried I might not be eating enough. Fitday said I ate around 2300 calories on thursday, though due to inconsistencies I'd probably guess it was slightly higher. Is that an alright number?

Also, what other supplements would be good? I started multivitamins again... I'm not a big fan of canned tuna at all, so would taking Fish Oil for the Omega 3's be a good idea? I'm also trying to get more fiber in my diet (more fruits and veggies than I used to eat, plus more oatmeal), but would a fiber supplement be a good idea?

Finally, a few food specific questions... The food that's hardest for me to give up, I think, is tortilla chips. Now, I'm guessing the normal ones are a bad idea... but I recently (a few weeks ago) discovered these multigrain chips (http://foodshouldtastegood.com/portfolio_multigrain_nut.asp) that are really good and full of what I believe are good grains. Yea or nay on having like an ounce every few days or something?

Also, is salsa okay to have (without chips even - like, say, on chicken breasts or something)? I assume so but I wanted to double check.

I'm not a big fan of raw apples (hard on my weak gums and, well, annoying to cut), but I absolutley love unsweetened natural applesauce. Is that okay to have as a fruit?


Thanks for all the great info that's out on the forums, and thanks in advance for any replies ... though I do realize half the questions I have I could probably just ask my nutritionist, but that appointment is a while away... :tu:

At 18 years old, 6'1" and 272 lbs (~20% BF, but I'm not 100% confident in that measurement.

I'd say that 20% is probably a low estimate unless you have a fair amount of muscle. I'm 5'11", and at 215lbs I was closer to 25%. But in any case, that's just where you are starting out... it's nice to know that you'll only be making improvement from there.

I'm a little worried that, in general, I might have my forms wrong.

Are you working out at a gym or at home? If you are at the gym, ask for an "orientation" with a personal trainer. It shouldn't cost you much (if it costs at all) and you can have them evaluate your form. Unless you feel you NEED additional instruction, ignore the trainer if they tell you that the routine you are doing is "wrong" in any way. If you are at home, it's going to be tougher to judge form. Perhaps in that case you can video your sets (something I recommend to all of my freeweight training clients) and post them up here for comments (or watch them yourself to get an idea of how your body is moving through space).

my heart rate was wayyy up (~176 most of the time, that's ~82% or so?) and I believe that's around the heart rate area you are aiming for with HIIT? Is seven days a week of morning cardio too much for a beginner?

At your size and level of conditioning, I'm not surprised that your heart rate was up that high. In fact, I'd probably suggest that you slow your pace down a bit to bring your heart rate down in to a lower range (150ish). My guess is that will probably be a brisk walk for you. If you can maintain that HR for 30-40mins, no problem going seven days a week.

I question fitday's measuring accuracy just because the foods are far too broad.

You can put custom foods into fitday. Measure out what you are eating and build your own database.

I've been reading a lot about protein shakes. Are they really neccesary?

In your case, they MIGHT help you to boost your protein intake, but I would only recommend that as a post-workout (PWO) "meal." By far, the simplest thing you can do to boost your protein intake is to eat more eggs (specifically the whites). Any other time, try to include a lean meat (fish, chicken, turkey) with every meal, or if that's not possible, dairy or nuts/beans. But don't become overly reliant on shakes as a primary source of protein (more than once a day) unless you are following a specific nutrition plan.

Speaking of the nutrition plan, is the nutritionist you will be seeing someone who is experienced with the dietary needs of an athlete (if you are exercising more than three times a week, and training with weights, for the purposes of this discussion you are an athlete) or is this just a general nutrition practitioner? The latter will probably recommend a program which would be suitable for general weight loss, but will not include the proper ratios to help you build muscle while you lose fat.

I'm a little worried I might not be eating enough. Fitday said I ate around 2300 calories on thursday, though due to inconsistencies I'd probably guess it was slightly higher. Is that an alright number?

Add 15% to whatever your calculations are... until you get "good" at estimating portions and reading labels, most people underestimate by that amount. 2300 seems about right to me... the most important thing is to try and be as consistant as possible with the intake from day to day for at least two weeks so you can see what kind of results you are getting and make "tweaks" from there.

what other supplements would be good? I started multivitamins again... I'm not a big fan of canned tuna at all, so would taking Fish Oil for the Omega 3's be a good idea? I'm also trying to get more fiber in my diet (more fruits and veggies than I used to eat, plus more oatmeal), but would a fiber supplement be a good idea?

If the rest of your diet is decent. you don't NEED any other supplement besides the multivitamin. If you want to augment with Omega 3's, fish oil is fine, and flax will add a different set of Omega 3's to the mix. If you use flax seeds (which need to be milled or ground), that will add extra fiber as well. Eating a good amount of fiberous (green) vegetables will help you feel fuller and keep things "moving". I don't recommend fiber supplements unless there's a specific reason for them.

I recently (a few weeks ago) discovered these multigrain chips that are really good and full of what I believe are good grains. Yea or nay on having like an ounce every few days or something? Also, is salsa okay to have (without chips even - like, say, on chicken breasts or something)? I assume so but I wanted to double check.

Eh... the chips are OK... not great, but not as bad as other options. An ounce or two a couple times a week won't hurt you. Like I always say, "You can eat ANYTHING you want... you just can't eat EVERYTHING you want." Serving size and moderation is the key. Unless you are overly concerned about sodium, salsa is absolutely fine and a fine addition to your condiment selection (as is mustard).

I'm not a big fan of raw apples (hard on my weak gums and, well, annoying to cut), but I absolutley love unsweetened natural applesauce. Is that okay to have as a fruit?

Yes. The less processed your foods are, the more benefits you will get, but it's a fine choice. Whole apple>unsweetened apple sauce>unsweetened apple juice>sweetened apple sauce>sweetened apple juice. Apples also have the benefit of appetite supression due to the pectin content.

Good questions... hope these answers help. Good luck to you!

I'd say that 20% is probably a low estimate unless you have a fair amount of muscle. I'm 5'11", and at 215lbs I was closer to 25%. But in any case, that's just where you are starting out... it's nice to know that you'll only be making improvement from there.

Yeah, it sounded low to me, and the measurements were imprecise. Since all I really care about is lowering BF% I should probably get an accurate way to measure it.

Are you working out at a gym or at home? If you are at the gym, ask for an "orientation" with a personal trainer. It shouldn't cost you much (if it costs at all) and you can have them evaluate your form. Unless you feel you NEED additional instruction, ignore the trainer if they tell you that the routine you are doing is "wrong" in any way. If you are at home, it's going to be tougher to judge form. Perhaps in that case you can video your sets (something I recommend to all of my freeweight training clients) and post them up here for comments (or watch them yourself to get an idea of how your body is moving through space).

I'm woking out at my college's gym. Their hours that they're open for the weekend (11am-4pm) suck, though, so I might look into possibly getting a membership somewhere else (although using this one is free...). I'm a little less worried about wrong form since my elbow feels absolutley fine today, and the pain might've been from taking a short nap on it the wrong way. Still, I'll look into a trainer or taking a video of myself if I feel I still lack confidence.

At your size and level of conditioning, I'm not surprised that your heart rate was up that high. In fact, I'd probably suggest that you slow your pace down a bit to bring your heart rate down in to a lower range (150ish). My guess is that will probably be a brisk walk for you. If you can maintain that HR for 30-40mins, no problem going seven days a week.

Would 30-40 mins of the lower HR be preferable to 20-30 minutes of the higher HR? Like everyone else, long cardio sessions aren't the most exciting... especially if I feel I'm holding myself back speed wise. But, if it would be better, I can do it.

You can put custom foods into fitday. Measure out what you are eating and build your own database.

It requires exact input from you for calories and such which was my main reason of going to fitday in the first place, but I can mess with it more I suppose.

In your case, they MIGHT help you to boost your protein intake, but I would only recommend that as a post-workout (PWO) "meal."

Right, that's really the only time I'd use them I think.

By far, the simplest thing you can do to boost your protein intake is to eat more eggs (specifically the whites). Any other time, try to include a lean meat (fish, chicken, turkey) with every meal, or if that's not possible, dairy or nuts/beans. But don't become overly reliant on shakes as a primary source of protein (more than once a day) unless you are following a specific nutrition plan.

I've been having some sort of lean meat or peanuts with every meal except for breakfast.. I should add maybe an egg and an eggwhite to breakfast and reduce the amount of oatmeal I have then or something I think.

Speaking of the nutrition plan, is the nutritionist you will be seeing someone who is experienced with the dietary needs of an athlete (if you are exercising more than three times a week, and training with weights, for the purposes of this discussion you are an athlete) or is this just a general nutrition practitioner? The latter will probably recommend a program which would be suitable for general weight loss, but will not include the proper ratios to help you build muscle while you lose fat.

I honestly don't know. It's the nutritionist we have at campus at the Student Health Center, and I'm going to her mainly because it's a free resource and I wanted second opinions on things. If she doesn't include the proper ratios, though, surely I can bring it up and have a conversation or something. Or, alternatively, just not take her advice. :p

Add 15% to whatever your calculations are... until you get "good" at estimating portions and reading labels, most people underestimate by that amount. 2300 seems about right to me... the most important thing is to try and be as consistant as possible with the intake from day to day for at least two weeks so you can see what kind of results you are getting and make "tweaks" from there.

Okay. I'll stay consistent around there then. Shouldn't be too hard...

If the rest of your diet is decent. you don't NEED any other supplement besides the multivitamin. If you want to augment with Omega 3's, fish oil is fine, and flax will add a different set of Omega 3's to the mix. If you use flax seeds (which need to be milled or ground), that will add extra fiber as well. Eating a good amount of fiberous (green) vegetables will help you feel fuller and keep things "moving". I don't recommend fiber supplements unless there's a specific reason for them.

I've got several flax products (the chips from below and some bread) that I plan to incorporate more (mostly with the bread). I think I will look into fish oils though because I don't see myself getting the amount of fish in my diet I probably should have due to my dislike of canned tuna.

Eh... the chips are OK... not great, but not as bad as other options. An ounce or two a couple times a week won't hurt you. Like I always say, "You can eat ANYTHING you want... you just can't eat EVERYTHING you want." Serving size and moderation is the key. Unless you are overly concerned about sodium, salsa is absolutely fine and a fine addition to your condiment selection (as is mustard).

Okay, sweet. That's one thing I like about what I see as the philosophy here - it's okay to eat whatever as long as its not a habit and you plan the rest of the day around it.

Yes. The less processed your foods are, the more benefits you will get, but it's a fine choice. Whole apple>unsweetened apple sauce>unsweetened apple juice>sweetened apple sauce>sweetened apple juice. Apples also have the benefit of appetite supression due to the pectin content.

Awesome~

Good questions... hope these answers help. Good luck to you!

Thanks a ton, it really helped! :D

If you are interested in getting a quick read on your BF%, look up the navy body fat determination - it is based on three easy to measure things: height, neck circumference, and waist (at the navel).

Given your stats, I would guess that you are closer to 35-40% body fat (sorry, I may be wrong - check using the above method).

It is best to KNOW your starting point in weight and BF%, even if it is depressing. At least you can accurately measure your progress, which can be very satisfying and motivating.

If you are interested in getting a quick read on your BF%, look up the navy body fat determination - it is based on three easy to measure things: height, neck circumference, and waist (at the navel).

Given your stats, I would guess that you are closer to 35-40% body fat (sorry, I may be wrong - check using the above method).

It is best to KNOW your starting point in weight and BF%, even if it is depressing. At least you can accurately measure your progress, which can be very satisfying and motivating.

I get ~21.7% (~23% if I add a couple inches to assume measuring error on my part, but I dobut it) doing the navy measurement, depending on the site I used to calucate it (tried a few). Neck is 19" (48 cm), abdomen at naval is 41" (104 cm), height is 73" (185.5 cm), if you want to double check.

And keep doing squats and deadlifts.

Squats killed me too....when I started doing them, in fact I was sore for a full week. Now I love them.

And keep doing squats and deadlifts.

Squats killed me too....when I started doing them, in fact I was sore for a full week. Now I love them.

It's been hell to walk down stairs since I did my first set of squats yesterday but I'm loving the pain. :bb:

Well, sorry for the double post, but I went home today (usually am at dorms), did a bunch of food shopping, and got a food scale and a non-shitty measuring tape from my parents.

Unfortuantley, remeasuring myself with that one, somehow at abdomen I'm actually 48". Not sure how the other measuring tape failed so badly, but I never was 100% confident in it.
Anyways, I guess I have 32% body fat. Not a major blow since I know I'm in bad shape, but it is a bit sobering. Oh well... doesn't really change things I don't think.

Well, sorry for the double post, but I went home today (usually am at dorms), did a bunch of food shopping, and got a food scale and a non-shitty measuring tape from my parents.

Unfortuantley, remeasuring myself with that one, somehow at abdomen I'm actually 48". Not sure how the other measuring tape failed so badly, but I never was 100% confident in it.
Anyways, I guess I have 32% body fat. Not a major blow since I know I'm in bad shape, but it is a bit sobering. Oh well... doesn't really change things I don't think.

Correct. It changes nothing except to give you the data you need to track and progress. I started at a similar point to where you are in September of last year (250 lbs and 31% BF). After 32 weeks I am at 202 lbs and 13-14% BF. I have averaged a loss of 1.5 lbs per week over that time (48 lbs in weight, but 50 lbs in total fat loss).

Stay focused on your goal.

So far things are going well, as far as I can tell. My weekly weigh-in comes friday (I'm kind of glad I don't have a scale to use readily available but it makes me nervous having to wait!), but I haven't missed a single day of exercise since last thursday and cardio is getting much easier each time - soon I'll be doing (boring) cardio sessions that lasted as long as they did when I used a gym a few years ago.

Today only, though, I realized I definitley need to actually track my diet in fitday. It's easier now that I've decided to make 100% of my meals (except for maybe once a week), so I can get nutritional info more easily. Today I only ate 2073 calories or so and my macronutriets were 28/42/29 p/c/f... It was a pretty typical day except I was kind of exahusted around dinner time and forgot to make vegetables with the leftovers I was eating ><
Anyways, that leads me to a question - is the amount of calories a problem? According to the nutrition guide, I should be at ~4000 calories for maintaining weight with the activity I do (probably even higher since I'm at the gym every day, but I only said moderately active). That means 3000 calories a day for 2 lbs a week weight loss, right?
So if I'm eating 2000-2500 calories a day, that would concievably lead to faster results, but why is only 1-2 lbs a week recommended for weight loss? I'm not intentionally starving myself or anything - on the contrary, I'm quite happy with the amount I'm eating - it's just that, if eating too little and losing weight too fast is a problem, then I'd like to know.


I realize the macronutrient proportions are off, and I will try to cut more fat out of my diet for more protein (sounds like a job for maybe adding a protein shake in once a day?). I'm also nowhere near the recommended 1g/lb of protein, but 272g of protein seems like a ridiculous amount anyways (I only had about 141g today) so I figure as long as I get the % around 30-40%, that'd be good, right?


On the weightlifting side of things, I'm noticing I'm not squatting as low as I should. I'm assuming this is due to lack of flexibility and lordosis, so I'm going to add stretches for those daily. Should I keep on the stronglifts program, adding weight each time etc etc? Or should I do other weight training until I'm flexible to do squats more properly (guessing it would take me a week or two)?