Today was the first day I tried the pull through. But I found that the weight at my gym was too light. This is a pic of the type of cable station that there is at my gym.

http://005673a.netsolhost.com/2006_Catalog/CATALOG_2006_files/image058.jpg

I did them in the middle section (where you can do the crossover's) and I put all the weights on it, 150lbs, and they were a bit easy. I don't think it really is 150lbs because the weight feels a lot easier there then it does on the other side of that section. My gym has another stack of weights attached to the other side with a to lean on for triceps pull downs.

I was thinking of trying them in that area where you can do the seated row's but the one in my gym is higher off the ground and I wouldn't be able to crouch as low. And the cable might not reach if I go to the end of the bench.

What can I do to add more resistance?

Thanks.

What can I do to add more resistance?


I don't know. When I want more tension on the muscle, I slow the movement down. Try 4 seconds of pull and 4sec return. Tell us if you could do it.

Today was the first day I tried the pull through. But I found that the weight at my gym was too light.

What can I do to add more resistance?

Do dumbell pullthroughs. As in a lot of things, the same weight of dumbell is often quite a bit more difficult than that weight on a cable.

And if you really want to get more resistance, you can go to barbell pullthroughs. :eek: :confused:

I don't know. When I want more tension on the muscle, I slow the movement down. Try 4 seconds of pull and 4sec return. Tell us if you could do it.

I can try that.

Do dumbell pullthroughs. As in a lot of things, the same weight of dumbell is often quite a bit more difficult than that weight on a cable.

And if you really want to get more resistance, you can go to barbell pullthroughs. :eek: :confused:

I have NO idea how to do those. I'll give the search a try. When I searched them I just saw the cable ones and I just assumed you could only do them that way.

I have NO idea how to do those. I'll give the search a try. When I searched them I just saw the cable ones and I just assumed you could only do them that way.

As luck would have it

d3u29h0Rq40

If you find you need to replace the exercise, these articles have some good ideas for hamstring exercises:

http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=05-187-training
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=248ham2
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=237pain2

I have NO idea how to do those. I'll give the search a try. When I searched them I just saw the cable ones and I just assumed you could only do them that way.
As zen notes in his video's comments, also check out "dumbbell swings." They're the much more common variation of / name for this lift. Personally, I'd only call the cable variation a "pull-through" and keep "swing" as the name for the kettlebell and dumbbell variations (including his lift), but to each his own.

As zen notes in his video's YouTube comments, also check out dumbbell swings, which is probably the more common name/variation for that exercise.

The swing is the same motion but you don't pause at the bottom to get rid of the stored energy and stretch reflex, and you can control back position better. If you swing, then you get that stuff but the resistance at the bottom is increased because you reverse the direction of the weight as opposed to stopping it, and then starting it. You get your people who like the pullthrough (like me) and other people who like the swing (like Mannishboy).

Watching Zen do the dumbbell swing, I thought I have never hurt my back lifting but if I wanted to that is the way I would do it.:blank:

Watching Zen do the dumbbell swing, I thought I have never hurt my back lifting but if I wanted to that is the way I would do it.:blank:

Unless you weigh a lot less than I think, then if a 90# dumbell pullthrough threatens your back, you need to work on your back.

As luck would have it

d3u29h0Rq40

That's the second time I've needed an exercise and you've had the vid. You got a whole arsenal

If you find you need to replace the exercise, these articles have some good ideas for hamstring exercises:

http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=05-187-training
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=248ham2
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=237pain2


As zen notes in his video's comments, also check out "dumbbell swings." They're the much more common variation of / name for this lift. Personally, I'd only call the cable variation a "pull-through" and keep "swing" as the name for the kettlebell and dumbbell variations (including his lift).

Cool. I'll be sure to try many of these. I'm doing the WS4SB. Of course I know that his reccomendations of the exercises are not the ONLY ones that I can do. But I'd never done pull through's before and I wanted to try them out. The guy next to me kept looking at me wondering what the heck I was doing. It was pretty cool. Good to have more exercises in my arsenal.

There are a lot of exercises that I'm not totally familiar with on his program.

The swing is the same motion but you don't pause at the bottom to get rid of the stored energy and stretch reflex, and you can control back position better. If you swing, then you get that stuff but the resistance at the bottom is increased because you reverse the direction of the weight as opposed to stopping it, and then starting it. You get your people who like the pullthrough (like me) and other people who like the swing (like Mannishboy).
Yeah, I understand what you're getting at, but I don't usually give new names to exercises that really only differ in cadence. I mean, when I pause significantly at the bottom of a squat, I don't change the fundamental name of the exercise, likewise for a kettlebell or dumbbell swing.

That's the second time I've needed an exercise and you've had the vid. You got a whole arsenal

Actually I mainly made videos of things that I found useful to recommend for which videos were lacking. So even though there may now be better example videos for some of them, I tend to post mine because I am familiar with it.

Not all my videos are good examples, either. Here is a pretty bad example:

yd9nQy0I98Y

and thanks to phillydude, now I have a better one for deadlifts at that weight:

3jlanpolZbU

Unless you weigh a lot less than I think, then if a 90# dumbell pullthrough threatens your back, you need to work on your back.

I have a couple of degenerative disc that can play havoc with me, the Dumbbell swing you are doing is not one I need or want to do. For what purpose do you do this exercise, a specific muscle or just calisthenics?

You sure have a lot of exercises to demonstrate is this in your regular workout or do you have a regular workout?:bb:

I have a couple of degenerative disc that can play havoc with me, the Dumbbell swing you are doing is not one I need or want to do. For what purpose do you do this exercise, a specific muscle or just calisthenics?

You sure have a lot of exercises to demonstrate is this in your regular workout or do you have a regular workout?:bb:
I too have some back problems, and I can tell you from experience that pullthroughs have helped me tremendously with them (along with reverse and regular hyper and a handful of other exercises, as well as learning how to actually squat properly!).

I do mine differently though and you might like them this way. These images are closer to how I do the exercise:

http://asp.elitefts.com/images/upload/qa/Mason-028.jpg
http://asp.elitefts.com/images/upload/qa/Mason-027.jpg

I use thick bands instead of the weight stack myself; just tie one end of the band to the bottom of the squat rack. :)

Personally I prefer this variety over Zen's version with the dumbbell. Just personal preference though (that "swing" is a good exercise too which I do sometimes with kettlebells); I prefer being able to "reach down" further and get a deep stretch in my lower back, and sometimes holding it for a second or two. Anyway I think you would like this exercise. :tu:

You sure have a lot of exercises to demonstrate is this in your regular workout or do you have a regular workout?:bb:

I don't have a regular workout. The idea is to cover basic movements and body parts, but not the same way every time. So the dumbell pullthrough is an alternative hip extension, where I often use Romanian deadlifts or single stiff legged deadlifts or cleans. I would like to add reverse hyperextensions but I don't have the machine for that.

There are lots of benefits of having a loosely structured workout - one of them is that we never wait for equipment - we can almost always just do something else now. Of the exercises I did today, three were certainly exercises I had never done before, and a fourth is one that I can't remember having done, but I think I might have done. So nearly half the workout was completely unfamiliar.

Personally I prefer this variety over Zen's version with the dumbbell. Just personal preference though (that "swing" is a good exercise too which I do sometimes with kettlebells); I prefer being able to "reach down" further and get a deep stretch in my lower back, and sometimes holding it for a second or two. Anyway I think you would like this exercise. :tu:

That is definitely the usual cable pullthrough I do the cable pulls like that too. The question was what to do when the stack isn't heavy enough on the cable: Your suggestion of resistance bands is interesting. I've never thought of that; but the original poster should definitely consider it if he has strong enough bands.

I don't usually give new names to exercises that really only differ in cadence. I mean, when I pause significantly at the bottom of a squat, I don't change the fundamental name of the exercise....

I call those pause squats to differentiate them from the usual. I do so many things that unless I'm reasonably precise then if I check my journal from long enough ago, I don't always remember exactly what was going on.

My brain is pretty much a one way street. I can't workout without a plan in mind and if anything gets in the way I kind of sit there stunned just waiting, instead of heading out to another exercise. Duh.

I don't have any bands but I'll take a look at them as well.

A while back there was a question about glute ham raises that helped me out because a lot of members posted a variety of ways to do them. I know had a long list of alternatives that I could choose, depending on wich exercise I felt more comfortable with. (I still can't do a single one though)

Same thing is happening here. There are now a bunch of pull through alternatives to look at.

I call those pause squats to differentiate them from the usual. I do so many things that unless I'm reasonably precise then if I check my journal from long enough ago, I don't always remember exactly what was going on.
Yeah. That was what I was getting at it with the word fundamental. I'd call it a "pause squat" as well, retaining the "squat," but I wouldn't call it a "bottom knee bend" or something like that. It's still a squat, like I would say that your DB variation is still a swing. I'm definitely also in favor of being as specific as possible in my journal -- I'd be lucky to remember what I did a couple workouts ago, let alone further back than that. :lol:

I'm being pointless. We both clearly understand the other's reasoning, but will keep doing it our own ways. :)

My brain is pretty much a one way street. I can't workout without a plan in mind and if anything gets in the way I kind of sit there stunned just waiting, instead of heading out to another exercise. Duh.

I don't have any bands but I'll take a look at them as well.

A while back there was a question about glute ham raises that helped me out because a lot of members posted a variety of ways to do them. I know had a long list of alternatives that I could choose, depending on wich exercise I felt more comfortable with. (I still can't do a single one though)

Same thing is happening here. There are now a bunch of pull through alternatives to look at.
One way to avoid getting funneled down that "one way street" when you don't have a plan is exactly what you're clueing into. If you learn as many exercises as you can, you'll always have another road to take. So, for example, if you decide that you want to do some ab work at the end of the session, instead of trying to think about what some ab exercises are, you could break that category of "ab exercises" down into smaller categories: hip vs. shoulder-dominant crunching, twisting, isometric, gymnastic origin, "old time" exercises, etc. Once you've done that, it's much easier to generate a more expansive list by going through each smaller category. You might end up with something like: hanging knee-ups, leg raises, pikes, wipers, cable crunches, cable twists, push pulls, dragon flags, levers, l-sits, tuck sits, saxon bends, one handed swings, bent presses, windmills, one-armed suitcase style deadlifts, etc. Now you probably have a lot more potential choices and a larger range of them than you would have had if you had just thought using the broadest category. :tucool:

I would say that your DB variation is still a swing.

Well nobody's stopping you from saying that, but we were doing them as the dumbell equivalent of a pullthrough before we knew about people doing them as swings.

Zen....
if you don't mind me saying so ( I'm not trying to criticize)...

On the ex you performed in the pullthrough vid....

Should not your:-

(a) back be more vertical from start to finish
(b) legs more bent to about 90 deg.
(c) a little bit more dumbell pre-swing at start of lift?

In the vid you seem to be basically lifting with your back.
But I've seen this done where the legs help power off the lift at start with the legs bent at 90deg and the back more vertical with no arch.

Done this way it's more of a total body lift than just hammering the back.

Another way of doing this is to take the dumbell right through to the top so that your arms end up vertical above and then lower the dumbell down close in front of you as if you were coming down from a standing Mil Press. Then continue to lower Db down to bottom start point.

(On the Db pre-swing you can get more momentum going at start by having the back vertical and pivoting on the knees a little. This way the Quads take the initial kick-off.)

Zen....
if you don't mind me saying so ( I'm not trying to criticize)...

On the ex you performed in the pullthrough vid....

Should not your:-

(a) back be more vertical from start to finish
(b) legs more bent to about 90 deg.
(c) a little bit more dumbell pre-swing at start of lift?


(a) I can't see how. You are supposed to start the lift with the back horizontal, and end it with the back extended past vertical.

(b) No, the legs are fine. When you do an explosive hip extension move, you really don't need a huge range of motion. You want to go from just where the hamstrings start to feel loaded. Same as RDLs, etc. Also why hang cleans are more or less as effective as cleans.

(c) That is exactly what I don't want in that movement. As we have explained in this thread, there are two different exercises - dumbell pull throughs and dumbell swings. In the swing, you keep the dumbell moving continuously, and this creates lots of pre-swing. In the pull through, you don't want any pre-swing; you want the dumbell to be accelerated from a dead stop, to maximize the explosiveness at the start of the lift. Almost all the force is applied to the dumbell before it's above your waist - it shoots up over your shoulder level all because of momentum.

I too have some back problems, and I can tell you from experience that pullthroughs have helped me tremendously with them (along with reverse and regular hyper and a handful of other exercises, as well as learning how to actually squat properly!).

I do mine differently though and you might like them this way. These images are closer to how I do the exercise:

http://asp.elitefts.com/images/upload/qa/Mason-028.jpg
http://asp.elitefts.com/images/upload/qa/Mason-027.jpg

I use thick bands instead of the weight stack myself; just tie one end of the band to the bottom of the squat rack. :)Ditto. Bands are the easiest way to go to add resistance to pullthroughs if you only have a light pulley system to work with.

Kettlebell swings are a great, great hip and hamstring exercise, but you have to know how to do them. IMHO, allowing the bell to swing through your legs can allow it to decelerate a little on it's own rather than using your lumbar to put on the breaks. Yes, there is momentum on both the concentric and eccentric portions, but it doesn't make the swing any less an effective exercise.

Kettlebell swings are a great, great hip and hamstring exercise, but you have to know how to do them. IMHO, allowing the bell to swing through your legs can allow it to decelerate a little on it's own rather than using your lumbar to put on the breaks. Yes, there is momentum on both the concentric and eccentric portions, but it doesn't make the swing any less an effective exercise.

You can do the braking any way you like, that's not a huge issue. The key difference is starting from the dead stop, which makes a huge difference. Basically the same difference between military press and push press. Note that this is not a key advantage/disadvantage - both the swing and the pullthrough are good exercises, just like military press and push press are both good, but for different things.

You can do the braking any way you like, that's not a huge issue. IMO, the eccentric portion of the DB pullthrough you demonstrated was the reason rtestes was commenting about the lower back. There was a lot of flexion.

The key difference is starting from the dead stop, which makes a huge difference. Basically the same difference between military press and push press. Note that this is not a key advantage/disadvantage - both the swing and the pullthrough are good exercises, just like military press and push press are both good, but for different things.Why not do high pulls instead of the DB pullthrough?

It seems to me that the point of contention for you is the momentum of the bell, but the momentum doesn't make the exercise any easier on your posterior chain - it just makes it a more rhythmic movement and makes it easier to do reps (I know that sounds contradictory).

If swings are good enough for Donnie Thompson, then I have to believe that they're good enough for most of us.

IMO, the eccentric portion of the DB pullthrough you demonstrated was the reason rtestes was commenting about the lower back. There was a lot of flexion.

No, I just don't arch the whole lift. The spine does extend at the top, but note that the load is almost completely off the lumbar spine in this lift the whole time the dumbell is above the waist. Actually go back and pause the video when I get down at the bottom (and although it goes by fast) you should see that the curve of the spine on the way down is fixed somewhere right around where the weight is just below the waist.

So the flexion/extension that you see in that lift is just about all during the "weightless" phase of the lift. Thus, it seems safe enough to me.

I take the point of view that this sort of dynamic back protection is better than the static "tight arch all the time" idea that so many coaches espouse. I think it's better to make sure the force production to protect the back can be quick, and adapt to different positions, as opposed to only having one safe position. Because the threat to your back ultimately is out there in real life too. A big thing could fall on you, you could be in an accident, you could fall unexpectedly. Explain to me how you only having your back fight a single point defense in training helps when the unexpected load is not in that position?

Here's one for you, is this guy threatening his back or not:

E3j5ddMAhac

Why not do high pulls instead of the DB pullthrough?

You need a place where you can do high pulls without destroying the floor. My current gym has no bumper plates. I have bumper plates at home, but the place where I lift is flagstones which will get beat up from dropping heavy weights. I might get a better location at home to lift this summer in which case there are several things I will be able to do.

You need a place where you can do high pulls without destroying the floor. My current gym has no bumper plates. I have bumper plates at home, but the place where I lift is flagstones which will get beat up from dropping heavy weights. I might get a better location at home to lift this summer in which case there are several things I will be able to do.
Didn't you buy a platform?

Didn't you buy a platform?

I've looked into the platform deal - I will either build or buy, but first I need a place to put it. At the moment, it looks like I will end up building a shed outdoors somewhere. Also, I have to get through all the blown down logs for firewood (I'm about 40% through that stuff). In fact, just recently I have come to the idea of using a wood stove to heat the lifting shed in the winter.

The other thing holding this sort of idea up is that I'm getting my wife a new kitchen this year. Yeah we got a budget, but I know how this sort of thing can go.