My gym doesn't have the appropriate equipment for squats or deadlift (yeah, what a gym), but they do have a large selection of dumbbells, so I've been looking into doing squats and deadlifts with dumbbells as a start (I'm a beginner, two months in).

I found these video clips of respectively the squat and the dead lift, and I don't see any significant difference in them. Would it not be over-kill to incorporate both of these in my full-body program then?

Dumbbell squat: http://www.criticalbench.com/exercises/dumbbell-squat.htm

Dumbbell deadlift:
http://www.criticalbench.com/exercises/dumbbell-deadlift.htm

Would it make a difference if the dumbbells are held over the shoulder in the dumbbell squat, so you'd get somewhat of the same weight distribution on the upper body as you would squatting with a barbell?

Hmm.....

I would say the deadlift works more muscles. You'll also be using your traps, delts, biceps, triceps, and external obliques.

I always do the dumbbell squat with the dumbbells a bit wider then my shoulders, over the shoulders because this is what is comfortable for me, I'm not sure if it's really better. It just helps me keep my chest open and my shoulders from rounding. May be someone else can say more about that.......

I would ignore the type of dumbbell deadlift that your link shows. Perform the squat movement and then use the dumbbells to a do a romanian or stiff-legged variant of the deadlift, which have a clear distinction from the squat movement.

Resting a bell on each of your shoulders with the elbows up in front is usually called a dumbbell front squat and offers slightly different loading than the squat your link shows.

You might try this version of a DB deadlift.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_K7N3_sopo&feature=related

And a squat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvtwIAW1U-E&feature=related

:cool:

Ok, thanks for the advice.

How about using a seated leg press instead of dumbbell squats, since I can put more kilos on the seated leg press?

Ok, thanks for the advice.

How about using a seated leg press instead of dumbbell squats, since I can put more kilos on the seated leg press?

Hope you've got your kevlar vest on....There may be some bullets flying here.


The seated leg press is a far inferior exercise. Just because you can load up more weight doesn't mean it's better. :nono:

How about using a seated leg press instead of dumbbell squats, since I can put more kilos on the seated leg press?

Give it a try. You can also use it for calf raises. People all over this world use Leg presses including nearly every major bodybuilder. I suppose they haven't got the word on the leg press, that prevails in some corners of the net. :cool:

How about using a seated leg press instead of dumbbell squats, since I can put more kilos on the seated leg press?

Keep in mind that a lot of the leg press extra kilos may be just the angle and not really increased load.

Do your dumbell squats as Bulgarians and you may be able to get enough load with dumbells.

Do your dumbell squats as pistols and you will definitely be able to get enough load with just dumbells.

Give it a try. You can also use it for calf raises. People all over this world use Leg presses including nearly every major bodybuilder. I suppose they haven't got the word on the leg press, that prevails in some corners of the net. :cool:

Some of the newer leg press machines are a lot less controversial than the old ones. My trainer Andre pointed this out to me the other day - apparently the people that make angled leg presses have been hearing the complaints about pelvis position and are working to improve the mechanism. I don't know exactly what the improvement has been but Andre says he has used a couple of the newer ones and they are much better.

I would ignore the type of dumbbell deadlift that your link shows.
I've never seen a deadlift that looks like that. It doesn't seem to offer a very good workout for the back, which is the intended purpose of the deadlift.

I have a limited amount of weight available too, so I've been doing a single leg version like this one:
hWLg7MrA9y4

You might try this version of a DB deadlift.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_K7N3_sopo&feature=related

:cool:

Wow does Zen take a beating in the threads there. Moron central it would seem. Nice lift and tremendous balance.

Pete

My gym doesn't have the appropriate equipment for squats or deadlift (yeah, what a gym), but they do have a large selection of dumbbells, so I've been looking into doing squats and deadlifts with dumbbells as a start (I'm a beginner, two months in).


What is their biggest dumbbell in weight? Just curious.:bb:

What is their biggest dumbbell in weight? Just curious.:bb:

It's 30 kilos (66.2lbs). Currently I'm going 90 kilos on the seated leg press (it's not an angled one, by the way), and so I won't be able to do that with dumbbells. Unless of course I use Bulgarian squats since they're single legged. I guess that would amount to an effective max weight of 60 kilos per leg, which would be the equivilant of 120 kilos on the leg press. Only thing is that would limit me to 120 kilos... and the seated leg press has a max of 160 kilos!

As for the training today I ended up doing seated leg press and dumbbell deadlifts, kinda like the one in the video. I don't have the form for Romanian deadlift yet, so I didn't dare it. :o Is Romanian deadlift a liability for the back? It looks like a back problem just waiting to happen... especially when all your life you've been told that you should lift with your knees. :lol:

Regards

I've never seen a deadlift that looks like that. It doesn't seem to offer a very good workout for the back, which is the intended purpose of the deadlift.

I have a limited amount of weight available too, so I've been doing a single leg version like this one:
hWLg7MrA9y4

I like that... except people might stare a bit in the gym. But hey! I'm not there to lay low.

It seems to me that the the single-legged exercises are a good option for people going to a gym without proper equipment for standard barbell squat and deadlift. Sure, they may take a bit longer to perform and look somewhat odd, but you're able to put a lot of weight on your legs with just dumbbells.

Wow does Zen take a beating in the threads there. Moron central it would seem. Nice lift and tremendous balance.

Pete

Never underestimate the vast idiocy, bile and hatred that are youtube commentators.

It's 30 kilos (66.2lbs). Currently I'm going 90 kilos on the seated leg press (it's not an angled one, by the way), and so I won't be able to do that with dumbbells. Unless of course I use Bulgarian squats since they're single legged. I guess that would amount to an effective max weight of 60 kilos per leg, which would be the equivilant of 120 kilos on the leg press. Only thing is that would limit me to 120 kilos... and the seated leg press has a max of 160 kilos!

As for the training today I ended up doing seated leg press and dumbbell deadlifts, kinda like the one in the video. I don't have the form for Romanian deadlift yet, so I didn't dare it. :o Is Romanian deadlift a liability for the back? It looks like a back problem just waiting to happen... especially when all your life you've been told that you should lift with your knees. :lol:

Regards
Don't mistake the back's changing position in space for lifting the weight with it. Done properly a romanian deadlift lifts the weight with the strength of the hips, glutes, and hamstrings. The back's job is primarily to maintain good posture, as the focus of the exercise is on hip extension.

When you're warned against lifting a weight with the back, you're being warned about creating spinal movement -- e.g. a change from a flexed to extended posture. When the back moves through space in any form of deadlift, the spine changes position, but not posture. This is not a problem.

Never underestimate the vast idiocy, bile and hatred that are youtube commentators.

Everyone gets an opinion. I actually think it helps people figure out what's up by getting to read both sides.

As far as this thread is concerned, the single leg deadlifts are interesting. When you start out, your legs aren't really strong enough to really beat up your back, so the single leg deadlift is more of a leg exercise.

But eventually, your legs get really strong in that exercise, and then your back gets a wake up call. Typically about the time you start pulling 185# or so on one leg, your back starts sending out nastygrams. And then, although it is more of a leg exercise, it is still a huge back exercise.

My back was a little tight today but I didn't take it seriously enough and insisted on doing conventional deads, but I didn't have a really great workout because my back started swearing at me and I pulled back. I should have thought to do single leg deads instead. I'm the last guy that should get caught short forgetting to switch to single leg deads when it's the best option.

By the way - people who take single leg deads seriously better be ready to burn serious Calories. This exercise is surprisingly high intensity for Calories. I actually think that if someone really wants to burn the most Calories with zero impact and the fewest reps, then the single leg deadlift could be the answer. So don't say I didn't warn you about the cardiovascular intensity of this lift.

Everyone gets an opinion. I actually think it helps people figure out what's up by getting to read both sides.

:tu: I thought it was really cool how the guy started out by calling you a name, and now appears to really have some genuine admiration for what you do. :dreamy: When you handle name-calling intelligently, people learn from it instead of remaining ignorant.

:tu: I thought it was really cool how the guy started out by calling you a name, and now appears to really have some genuine admiration for what you do. :dreamy: When you handle name-calling intelligently, people learn from it instead of remaining ignorant.

Well some people learn, some don't.

The thing I find really weird in this picture is that the subject is that of making people aware of an exercise, for which come claims are made. Why is it that people do not simply try the exercise before getting put off because it's new to them, or it seems odd, or they have these theories about it being wrong. Yet if you concoct a diet that is new, seems odd, and is theoretically controversial, people will try it in droves.

The weather is getting nice enough for me to make some more youtube clips. I will definitely be doing a 275# single leg deadlift on bosu with the new mount technique. Dunno if I'll get it, but I will attempt 315#. I am interested to see at which weight people will stop claiming you cannot lift heavy in that exercise. I would have thought 225# would have had that effect but it didn't.

Oddly enough people who actually do single leg deadlifts tend to do well with them. I'm following Pete5's progress with interest.

A question about abs training in a full-body program: How many different exercises should one do? At the moment I'm just doing one per training session.

Also, as I understand it normal crunches are the best all-over abs training? Could I then do those one day, and other abs exercises hitting the obliques and upper abs the other two days?

Another thing: I've read several places that you should have a rest week every eight weeks (some say eleven), should I do this? Because that would be next week.

Another thing: I've read several places that you should have a rest week every eight weeks (some say eleven), should I do this? Because that would be next week.

For sure! It makes a huge difference. I've taken time off and come back stronger than when I left off. Your body needs a break every now and then.

Another thing: I've read several places that you should have a rest week every eight weeks (some say eleven), should I do this? Because that would be next week.

Sort of. If you are just beginning, it's not that big a deal. Once you get farther along and workout intensity gets up there? Then yes, you need to do that. I think I probably needed to deload this week so I'll do it next week.