Hi Everyone. I'm a long time lurker, first time poster. I have a question or two for you:

Short version of the story: About two years ago I decided enough was enough, that I was sick of being overweight, and that it was finally time to do something about it. One of the main contributing factors to my being overweight is that I have a high stress, long hour IT desk job... and it's just too easy to eat fast food, eat out, not work out, generally not get much activity (walking), etc. I was 6'0" and 240 lbs. So, back then I did quite a bit of reading here at the JSF forums and made two big changes related to cutting & transformation:

- First was nutrition, I started eating "cleaner" which to me meant eating more fruits & vegetables and avoiding sugar, white flour, starches, breads, potatoes, fast food, etc. My daily meals generally looked like oatmeal or a banana/apple in the morning, chicken greek salad on romaine w/ olive oil at lunch (maybe with 1/2 a pita if I felt like being bad), and a tuna/chix+cheese egg-white omelet for dinner. Black coffee throughout the day, 1-2 diet cokes (curb the sweet tooth) and water. I just could never get myself to the level of dedication to count calories, macro, micros, etc. Overall it worked well for me, and my biggest downfall was the sweet tooth... which, if needed, I learned to curb with a teaspoon of honey (versus cake/pie/ice cream that I used to).

- Second was exercise, I bought a commercial grade elliptical and generally 'ran' 75 minutes per day, 6 night a week after work but before dinner.... not sure if would be LISS, HISS or whatever... but generally a constant 160-170 bps pace (I'm 34 now). I'd call it more of a cardio pace than low intensity... fast enough where I could talk if needed, but would rather breathe! The work out became easier as the months went on... and after about 6 months it was tough for me to get to 160 with sprinting ... so I was normally between 140-150 bps.

I did this rough routine for a little over a year. I dropped from 240 lbs to 200lbs rather quickly (2-3 months), then seemed to plateau at around 190 lbs which I maintained for another 8-10 months. I'm not sure on BF%, but it was obviously way lower at 190 vs. 240. :) But, then again, even then I wasn't underwear model material - no six pack, still some small love handles, etc. But, I was in pretty darn good shape for me.

Then, a 'life' event happened. For whatever reason, the priority of my workout and overall health dropped while I was dealing with this event... and I reverted back to my old ways. I didn't workout for 6-8 months... and while I still tried to follow my healthy eating senses, I was probably overeating for not working out... and definitely more cheat meals (fast food, etc.)

So, I'm re-starting today with my commitment to get fit. And with that I have a couple questions:



1) I'm planning to get back on the wagon and do roughly what was working for me before. Any suggestion or optimizations to the nutrition or exercise listed above? Should I do a little less cardio and start doing some lifting? I was actually thinking of moving the cardio to first thing in the morning (empty stomach) and then doing some lifting 3x a week at night. Nutrition-wise, to optimize fat loss while retaining muscle, how many calories should I be eating per day, assuming an hour of cardio/day? 10x current body weight? 10x ideal body weight? other?


2) A friend of mine has decided to also start working out (main goal is fat loss as well). His path is a little different than mine in that he's working with a trainer at his gym. That trainer suggested he follow a 4 week "cleansing diet" that looks something like this:

Week 1
Day 1: All Fruit. No bananas, no apples.
Day 2: All Veggies - salads only with oil/vinegar dressing.
Day 3: All Fruits/Veggies plus the biggest baked potato you can find in the store with as much butter as you can stand on it.......
Day 4: All Fruits +1 chicken breast
Day 5: All Veggies +1 chicken breast
Day 6: All Bananas (nothing else, just banannas all day)
Day 7: All brown rice/veggies

2 gallons of water/day
unlimited coffee (must be black with nothing in it)
unlimited tea
unsweetened fruit juices
Multi-Vitamins and B-complex daily, also vitamin c supplement

Week 2 is basically an Atkins-like week - high protein, high fat, no/low carbs. Week 3 is back to Week 1. Week 4 is repeat of week 2.


Is this something I too should consider following, or is it just a scam? His trainer claims he'll lose 20-30 lbs by just following this diet with minimal exercise. I'm willing to give it a shot (it's pretty strict), but I just want to make sure I won't be losing muscle (or other negative) in the process. thoughts?

i don't really have much advice, but i can tell you that the whole cleansing diet thing is a myth. They don't actually do anything for you as your body cleanses its self naturally. I suggest you start eating healthy and skip all of the 'cleansing' stuff, as your body just doesn't need it.

good luck with whatever you decided to do!

Apologies in advance for the rude and obnoxious tone. It's a gift. :)

1) No, don't follow your original plan again; it sucks, and the long term results tell the reasons why.

2) Maybe I should have saved the word "sucks" for plan B. The only thing that sucks worse than your original plan/diet is your friend's plan/diet from this hotshot trainer he's paying.

I should probably explain myself. :)

Your original plan has textbook signs of why "dieting" as a short term solution fails people time and time again. You slashed calories and achieved short term weight loss -- big surprise. What you failed to build upon however were sustainable nutritional habits that would allow you to manage your weight for the long term.

Your original approach is like walking a tight rope for a couple miles. Eventually you're going to fall off, and when something in life inevitably knocked you off, because you really hadn't established anything sustainable but were "dieting" instead, you had nothing to fall back on and the weight came crashing back. The odds were too far against you the entire time and it's not worth the risk again.

The fact you describe eating something like half a pita as "being bad" is not a good sign at all. What does that even mean? Would you ask a priest for confession because you ate half a pita? You need to remove any food = fat associations that you have going on in your head. Look at what you wrote, was it half a pita making you overweight, or was it a diet of fast food, pizza, and doughnuts?

On the exercise front, with the combination of your original diet and the all cardio approach, you had a poor system for an optimal physique transformation. Sure you were losing fat, and making the numbers look better on paper, but without resistance training of some sort in the mix, you were unnecessarily handicapping yourself.

As for your friend's plan, hopefully with what I've written above it's obvious why I think this is a total scam. Oh goody, Sunday is banana day. There won't be any cravings going on for junk food as a result of that, and we're building just fabulous sustainable nutritional habits with this system. :rolleyes: Do you even like bananas by the way?


My suggestions:

Revamp your dietary habits within the context of nutritional principles that are realistic for you to follow over the next 2-3 months. Quality whole food sources, dedication to meal preparation, more vegetables, less crap, and a macro split that isn't ridiculous. 30% each across protein/carbs/fats, and doing whatever you want with the other 10% (preferably protein/fats over carbs) is reasonable.

Meals should look like a healthy plate of food, and not some small scraps of food. Complete protein source, all the fibrous vegetables you want, a dose of healthy fat, and starches in moderation -- that sort of thing. It honestly should look like something you could order in a restaurant with a healthy menu.

Use the information in the Beginner's section along with your current stats to layout a plan of attack, but I wouldn't suggest getting overly obsessive with numbers just yet. If your food choices and serving sizes are reasonalbe, the numbers will work out fine.

List out whatever you come up with, and we'll go from there. Oh, welcome back by the way. :tu:

(I'd probably ask one of the mods in the Technical forum to move your thread to the Beginner's forum; you'll get more responses there, and it's more appropriate to your situation)

Welcome!

A co-worker of mine did that same plan, except it also included "tomato day," which was like banana day, but with tomatoes. He got REALLY SICK every time he followed that plan, but kept going back to it because it'd make him drop weight (but not fat). He also got mouth sores on the days he had all one type of food (bananas and tomatoes), which I think has to do with too much acid or base or whatever in nothing but one type of food all day long.

So don't do it, unless you love bananas more than life itself.

Week 1
Day 1: All Fruit. No bananas, no apples.
Day 2: All Veggies - salads only with oil/vinegar dressing.
Day 3: All Fruits/Veggies plus the biggest baked potato you can find in the store with as much butter as you can stand on it.......
Day 4: All Fruits +1 chicken breast
Day 5: All Veggies +1 chicken breast
Day 6: All Bananas (nothing else, just banannas all day)
Day 7: All brown rice/veggies

2 gallons of water/day
unlimited coffee (must be black with nothing in it)
unlimited tea
unsweetened fruit juices
Multi-Vitamins and B-complex daily, also vitamin c supplement

Week 2 is basically an Atkins-like week - high protein, high fat, no/low carbs. Week 3 is back to Week 1. Week 4 is repeat of week 2.


Is this something I too should consider following, or is it just a scam? His trainer claims he'll lose 20-30 lbs by just following this diet with minimal exercise. I'm willing to give it a shot (it's pretty strict), but I just want to make sure I won't be losing muscle (or other negative) in the process. thoughts?

That trainer should be fired.

That diet is slightly better than cutting a leg off to lose weight. Both ways will make you lose weight, but neither is healthy or a good idea.

Thanks everyone for the responses. I really do appreciate it!

Apologies in advance for the rude and obnoxious tone. It's a gift. :)

Goonie - No problem. I actually appreciate the blunt, to-the-point response. That's why I'm here! Looking for some help on laying out the best approach to my goals - no fluff.


The fact you describe eating something like half a pita as "being bad" is not a good sign at all. What does that even mean? Would you ask a priest for confession because you ate half a pita? You need to remove any food = fat associations that you have going on in your head. Look at what you wrote, was it half a pita making you overweight, or was it a diet of fast food, pizza, and doughnuts?


Understood. By 'bad', all I meant is that I was trying to avoid the white flour and breads while cutting... same reasoning as the pizza and doughnuts examples you gave. It wasn't so much that I was trying to cut kcals down to an anorexic level, just that I knew that wasn't the best nutritional choice -- empty calories.






On the exercise front, with the combination of your original diet and the all cardio approach, you had a poor system for an optimal physique transformation. Sure you were losing fat, and making the numbers look better on paper, but without resistance training of some sort in the mix, you were unnecessarily handicapping yourself.


Understood. Initially, I was very happy with my progress. I dropped what I felt to be a good % of BF while actually putting some muscle on (mostly legs). But, after I dropped from 240 into the 190's, my progress came to a standstill... and, in hindsight, I wish I would have done some lifting with that cardio. I was much lower BF, but not very 'built' or 'cut' when at that weight.


As for your friend's plan, hopefully with what I've written above it's obvious why I think this is a total scam.


Yea, that's why I thought I'd ask here. His trainer has a BA degree and is one of the more highly regarded trainers at the local gym. While I know it's not sustainable, I was thinking about doing it for a week or two to try and get my BF down... and then resume a more natural/healthier/sustainable regime. My big concern is whether that plan would result in just losing water weight, or sacrificing muscle for the sake of dropping weight.




My suggestions:

Revamp your dietary habits within the context of nutritional principles that are realistic for you to follow over the next 2-3 months. Quality whole food sources, dedication to meal preparation, more vegetables, less crap, and a macro split that isn't ridiculous. 30% each across protein/carbs/fats, and doing whatever you want with the other 10% (preferably protein/fats over carbs) is reasonable.

Meals should look like a healthy plate of food, and not some small scraps of food. Complete protein source, all the fibrous vegetables you want, a dose of healthy fat, and starches in moderation -- that sort of thing. It honestly should look like something you could order in a restaurant with a healthy menu.


Totally agree. I know that just by cutting out the fast food and other garbage food, it'll get me 75% of the way there. You hit on dedication to meal prep & that has always been the tough one for me due to my job, being single, being a guy, constant work travel, etc. lol. It sounds so easy to do, but can be tough in reality.


Use the information in the Beginner's section along with your current stats to layout a plan of attack, but I wouldn't suggest getting overly obsessive with numbers just yet. If your food choices and serving sizes are reasonalbe, the numbers will work out fine.


I'm a pretty smart guy, but am a newbie for the most part on the nutritional needs for cutting, bulking, maintenance, etc. etc. Yea, I know what healthy foods are, and which are not... but as far as counting marcos and %'s of each, combined with suppliments, etc. I get lost easily. Would you recommend that I buy/follow a nutritional/exercise guide... like SGX or Gravityhomer's stickey in the Beginner forum... or just do my own thing (eat whole, healthy, clean)? I'm just nervous that I might think what is good, turns out not to be.... like 100% cardio for a year! :)


(I'd probably ask one of the mods in the Technical forum to move your thread to the Beginner's forum; you'll get more responses there, and it's more appropriate to your situation)

Sure, wherever is most appropriate.

It's so frustrating to see a trainer give less than good advice, and then get paid for it. :nope:

I know what you mean about the nutrition being confusing, but it's also so important.

I've simplified things for myself by first knowing what my maintaining calorie intake is. There are calculators for this all over the web.

Once I have that number I take it down 300 calories to create a calorie deficit.

Then around my workouts, both before and after I eat foods that I know will replenish glyocen the best. Combinations of foods like:

bagel, peanut butter, raisins

turkey on whole wheat and applesauce

Just as a few examples. To say it most simply, a healthy carb w/a lean protein.

Then I look at the breakdown of how much and what kind of foods for my daily calorie intake. For example, for 1600 calories a day I should eat 1 1/5 cups of fruit 2 cups of veggies, 5oz of grains and proteins, 3 cups of milk.

I say to myself, okay I had a bagel, so now I still need 3 oz of grains, and I had applesauce so I still need 1 cup of fruit, and so on for the remaining 4 small meals in the day.

Also it takes 3 days for your metabolism to slow down to starvation mode, when your body says, oh no, calories are being cut, so I better start conserving energy just in case. So on the forth day I up my calories to my maintaining caloric intake, planning my meals the same way as above. These days (Thurs, Sat, Sun) I also allow myself starchy veggies like potatoes, red meats and such.

That's an easier way for me to look at it. That's what works for me.

Yea, that's why I thought I'd ask here. His trainer has a BA degree and is one of the more highly regarded trainers at the local gym. While I know it's not sustainable, I was thinking about doing it for a week or two to try and get my BF down... and then resume a more natural/healthier/sustainable regime. My big concern is whether that plan would result in just losing water weight, or sacrificing muscle for the sake of dropping weight.

Oh, sweet God, no. Don't do it. That's one of the most godawful nutritional plans I've seen. Unless you consider it "cleansing" to have explosive diarrhea for a week, in which case: full steam ahead!

Banana day?? :confused: that guy is a blithering idiot...

Anyway, sorry :) Listen to goonie, this man speaks the truth!! I'd like to reiterate everything he said and I wouldn't change any of it. Really take his words to heart and you cant go wrong. :tu:

And by taking his words to heart I mean do what he is telling you to do. Implement what he is saying...exactly. This is easier to read than it is to actually DO. Do it.

No offense to anyone else who posted at all, I'm sure there were many great advices given. I didn't read them, only because I need to go to sleep :D and he covered all the bases. Luv you all--evan