I'd first like to say that I really did search hard for the answer to this question, but with little luck.

My main goal is to lose weight. Iv done it before, Iv lost about 80 pounds doing cardio 5x a week for 45 mins in the afternoon. I lost about 10 pounds a month.

This time around Im looking to do things a little different. I want to try cardio twice a day. I was planning on doing 60mins on the treadmill in the morning and 60 mins on the treadmill in the evening.

Is this to much cardio?

Physically I can handle it (considering I tried it for a week) and my diet seems to support it.


So would anyone suggest I stay on this or should I be a little more concerned about muscle loss?

No weight training? Most people in this forums would say that diet is most important in losing weight, weight training second, and cardio the least important. I would have to agree here. Diet is most important because in reality, you are what you eat. Weight training is second important because it preserves or helps you gain lean body mass while burning calories and raising metabolism. People say cardio is least important because it's not necessary, although I see that it can help since it burns up additional calories.

Is this to much cardio?

I doubt it. But it's not enough resistance exercise. Why sell yourself short?

I wouldn't mind doing some resistance training as well. My main concern is that at some point my legs would get sore and prevent me from doing my cardio. Does anyone suggest anything?

I'd first like to say that I really did search hard for the answer to this question, but with little luck.

My main goal is to lose weight. Iv done it before, Iv lost about 80 pounds doing cardio 5x a week for 45 mins in the afternoon. I lost about 10 pounds a month.

This time around Im looking to do things a little different. I want to try cardio twice a day. I was planning on doing 60mins on the treadmill in the morning and 60 mins on the treadmill in the evening.

Is this to much cardio?

Physically I can handle it (considering I tried it for a week) and my diet seems to support it.


So would anyone suggest I stay on this or should I be a little more concerned about muscle loss?

What muscle do you have? Where did you get it. Not from cardio, that builds very little muscle. You seem to be overeating and you use the burning of calories as a method so you don't have to cut calories.

When you lose body mass, it can be fat or muscle. Fat is an inactive cell It burns very few calories when your body is at rest or Your BMR. It is estimated that fat burns 2 calories per pound per day at rest. Muscle is far more active, I have seen estimates over the years that it burns between 8-100 calories per pound each day. I go along with a 37 calorie number, 18 times as many calories as fat. What ever the number - you want and need muscle and less fat.

Build muscle and build metabolism. Your body will use more calories at rest and you can eat some more than if you keep fat cells.

My opinion you burned muscle before with your loss and lowered metabolism and now you want to burn more muscle when you put fat back by doubling up. You need to start a good heavy resistance program doing 8-12 rep sets and be sure to cut time between sets to 60 sec. or less. Let that be your cardio effect.:tucool:

I wouldn't mind doing some resistance training as well. My main concern is that at some point my legs would get sore and prevent me from doing my cardio. Does anyone suggest anything?

Yeah. Heavy leg exercise which will improve your legs and your cardio.

Soreness should not be a big issue once you get the strength exercise going. Make sure you stay well hydrated. With the good deal of cardio that you do, recovery should be quick.

What muscle do you have? Where did you get it. Not from cardio, that builds very little muscle. You seem to be overeating and you use the burning of calories as a method so you don't have to cut calories.

When you lose body mass, it can be fat or muscle. Fat is an inactive cell It burns very few calories when your body is at rest or Your BMR. It is estimated that fat burns 2 calories per pound per day at rest. Muscle is far more active, I have seen estimates over the years that it burns between 8-100 calories per pound each day. I go along with a 37 calorie number, 18 times as many calories as fat. What ever the number - you want and need muscle and less fat.

Build muscle and build metabolism. Your body will use more calories at rest and you can eat some more than if you keep fat cells.

My opinion you burned muscle before with your loss and lowered metabolism and now you want to burn more muscle when you put fat back by doubling up. You need to start a good heavy resistance program doing 8-12 rep sets and be sure to cut time between sets to 60 sec. or less. Let that be your cardio effect.:tucool:


I guess I should explain a little more. I was once 190 pounds at only 5'1.That was when I decided to get serious and try and lose some weight and joined these forums in 2005 (Hence my join date).

Since then I had lost about 80 pounds doing 45 min cardio 5x a week. Part of that regimen was very strict calorie control (Some of my logs may still be on this site. I don't just eat shit and use cardio as my excuse.

Between those years people complained that I had looked to skinny, and it influenced me to put on a few more pounds. I figured I could boost my metabolism by eating more, and then creating the same deficit again to maintain weight. However I got lazy and ended up gaining about 60 pounds in the process.

I would just turn back to what had originally worked but this time around I am looking to try and do things better.

Iv done some research on morning cardio and most of it seems to be black or white. Either do it for max weight loss or don't do it for risk of losing muscle.

I don't want to look washed out by doing all this cardio.

Secondly, I had never worked out twice a day or for 60 min sessions for that matter. Hence my second question about whether or not that would be to much cardio and be counter productive.

Im going to do cardio twice a day reguardless. My question is whether or not my first session should be fasted. Im also looking into L Glutamine to prevent drastic muscle loss.

Goodday
:bb::bb:

Between those years people complained that I had looked to skinny, and it influenced me to put on a few more pounds. I figured I could boost my metabolism by eating more, and then creating the same deficit again to maintain weight. However I got lazy and ended up gaining about 60 pounds in the process.

I would suggest the reason 60 lbs came back on was because you had not maintained muscle mass during your cut, and a lot of your weight loss was via loss of metabolically more active muscle tissue. So your metabolism had slowed to the point where returning to "normal" eating levels caused a rebound.

So yes:

Diet->Diet->Resistance work->Higher intensity type cardio->low intensity type cardio

That's the order of importance for making sustainable body compositional changes. I'd recommend you put more of a focus on a good, healthy diet, then lift, and add in cardio around that. Don't do cardio for hours, then worry about the diet, and maybe get around to lifting, because you'll just end up skinny fat waiting for another rebound.

So what resistance training would you all reccomend? I wouldn't mind doing cardio in the morning and resistance in the evening. The only experience I have with resistance training is working on a circuit though. I don't have the membership to that gym anymore and would much rather do the work at home. I can afford equipment too.

Any suggestions?

Two cardio workouts per day is awesome for incredibly rapid fat loss. I'd have to agree on the weight training though. If you can do it, do it, because overall you'll get the best results with both cardio and weight training. JUST doing cardio results in skinny fat guy look for a long time, and if you really manage to get all of the fat off (which most people can't, they just plateau at skinny fat), you still just wind up looking skinny. So definitely go for the weight training if you can.

If you want to incorporate two cardio sessions per day, why not make one less "official"? Like a brisk walk outdoors, a pick-up basketball game, a swim (in warm weather)...something that doesn't feel like a "workout".

I think if you have two cardio "workouts" per day, plus weight-lifting (which is really essential to overall health and helps immensely with fat loss), you're going to hit burnout. If that second cardio session is just kind of in the name of fun/relaxation/family time/whatever, you'll stick to it, and enjoy yourself a lot more in the process.

So what resistance training would you all reccomend? I wouldn't mind doing cardio in the morning and resistance in the evening. The only experience I have with resistance training is working on a circuit though. I don't have the membership to that gym anymore and would much rather do the work at home. I can afford equipment too.

Any suggestions?

Circuit training is OK, but I'd recommend you get away from the machines and do real free weight work for the most part. You can do circuits with free weights, but most people have trouble doing that in a busy gym because you have to tie up so much equipment. But you could investigate barbell or dumbbell complexes for a similar idea with just one implement.

You want to make sure you do legs and back as your primary focus because those are your biggest and most metabolically (and hormonally) impactful groups of muscles. So to hit those, do squats, deadlifts, pullups/pulldowns (on cable if you can't do pullups), and rowing motions (BB, DB, cable).

Then do upper body push motions in both the horizontal plane (DB or BB bench) and vertical plane (military press).

So: quad dominant, hip dominate, upper horizontal push, upper horizontal pull, upper vertical push, upper vertical pull. Those should all be hit. In a full body plan, you can hit them all in one workout. Or you might split them into upper and lower body days.

There are some off the shelf plans we can point you to that give you more specifics if you are interested.

Although mixing it up and doing LISS from time to time when you're consistently doing HIIT is not too bad, but working out twice running is not necessary. There are simple things that you can do for yourself to make yourself more active: standing up at your computer desk (you can build a stand up desk) instead of always sitting, being more active at your work (I too work at a desk job and still stand up throughout my shifts), spending time doing activities like football, soccer, tennis, raquetball, etc.

I don't know who perpetuated the myth that athletic people aren't active because "OMG I'M GOING TO LOZE DA' MUSKELS," but it's false. There seems to be a correlation to those I know who have low bodyfat and those who don't: we move and the others are lazy.

Dropping calories is a last resort because for those who've had past thyroid problems like myself know it can reak havoc on you. Figure out what your maintanence level is, and slightly drop it 200-300 calories below that. I don't do the 500 calories because often I underestimate what I need. Keep in mind as you get lower bodyfat, you need more re-feeds a week. There have been cuts where I have spent have the week re-feeding and the other days cutting. Learn to be patient; don't expect everything overnight.

If you do things like this, you won't need to run twice a day: a short intense run in the morning will do you fine and just doing something throughout the day will work as well. These are simple activities, but do increase the calories you burn. Your body learns - because it is nothing but a highly evolved machine - to value muscle over fat because you are active. Then in the evening, do something you enjoy. Go swimming with friends, box, play a sport, walk your dog. Not only to help you be healthy but because they are things you enjoy doing. Valuing life and enjoying it is wonderful; constantly living in fear that you are going to lose muscle is ridiculous and just prevents some from enjoying their life.

Lazy bodybuilders on the other hand will have trouble constantly with weight gain. Many of these men I know who are at 220lbs are claiming they are eating 2600 calories a day to maintain; I eat 200 calories more than they do on a cut and weigh 40lbs less! But if they've wrecked their thyroid - like many have done - that's why they can eat so low and maintain.

Eat quality food, be more active, and enjoy life. I suppose some just like to sit around all day watching TV and justify it as "well I went to the gym my once for today and am eating low," but that is nothing but being lazy in my mind. There is nothing wrong with being more active and your body isn't as stupid as some would have you believe.

Also this whole paranoia about losing muscle amazes me. Most diets and workout programs will have you lose fat to muscle at a 4 to 1 ratio; people who say they've lost muscle rarely are measuring that. I've been on cuts where my strength increased, well how did that happen? Also, last night Amanda and I hadn't seen each other in two weeks and had "couple fun" for more than six hours straight - and I forgot to drink protein every 2 hours! I wonder how much muscle I lost?

See how ridiculous that is? Live.

So the general consensus is I should mix cardio with resistance training. Would anyone recommend doing 1 hour cardio in the morning and some type of resistance training in the afternoon? Maybe some sort of 3 day split and on off days I can do cardio, or would this impact my resistance training negatively?

Also, would anyone recommend using something like the total gym (which uses mostly your own body weight) for resistance training?

So the general consensus is I should mix cardio with resistance training. Would anyone recommend doing 1 hour cardio in the morning and some type of resistance training in the afternoon? Maybe some sort of 3 day split and on off days I can do cardio, or would this impact my resistance training negatively?

Also, would anyone recommend using something like the total gym (which uses mostly your own body weight) for resistance training?

I suggest you do no cardio for first 6 weeks. That you cut rest between sets to 60 -30 sec. That you use weights, barbell mainly. You do a full body workout similar to this one, using the heaviest weights you can. (suggested start weights)

BB Squat 75lbs
BB stiff legged deadlft 85 lbs
BB Bent over row 60 lbs
BB shoulder shrug 70 lbs
BB shoulder press 45 lbs
BB bench Press 70 lbs
BB curl 40 lbs
BB close grip bench press 50 lbs

1 set each. Do as many reps as you can until you can't complete another one. If you couldn't complete 8 reps reduce weight by 2-5% next workout. If you completed 12 reps or more, add 2-5% next time. Always try to add reps or weight each workout using this method. Do the reps slowly and controlled. 3 workouts a week - mwf or tts.

Workout should take less than 20 minutes. If you don't wimp on weights, you will be breathing as much as you did after hour of cardio. Your muscle will grow. Get 8 hours sleep a night. Drink plenty of water. don't do any organized exercise except the above. Walk your dog. take stairs as much as possible. Park car away from store.

You can join a gym or you can get a bench and Barbell. Buy or beg, borrow or steal them. Go to exrx.net (http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html) to see how to perform exercises.

For calories use 1900 total , eat more carbs than fats, get the carbs from vegetables. cut out the simple sugars. :bb: :gl: