Hi,

I was wondering how far from anorexia is the common approach of fitness on these forums ?
Who is not obsessed more than reason by its meals and BF%?
Who is not stressed by a non planned cheat meal, or will neglect its social life in order to stay on the track?
Who has ever been really satisfied with its results, and did no want more and more ?
Who's sure that he isn't trying to control his body in order compensate deeper problems?

From Wikipedia:
Anorexia nervosa is a psychiatric diagnosis that describes an eating disorder characterized by low body weight and body image distortion with an obsessive fear of gaining weight. Individuals with anorexia often control body weight by voluntary starvation, purging, vomiting, excessive exercise, or other weight control measures, such as diet pills or diuretic drugs. It primarily affects adolescent females, however approximately 10% of people with the diagnosis are male. Anorexia nervosa is a complex condition, involving psychological, neurobiological, and sociological components.

I'm just thinking about all this for myself, hoping to go on for health and fitness, but not slip on the "too much" side.
What do you think for yourself ?

Matthieu

It's hard to know where you actually draw the line. Heavy subject that some people on a fitness forum won't take too well. However, if you're healthy, I think whatever you'd like to do is fine.

When you get obsessed with pills and powders and stacks and... that's a little far, I think. Which is a comment that I'm sure will net me a little backlash from posters on this forum.

Another thing to keep in mind is that a lot of bodybuilders DO suffer from unhealthy disorders, and what they do IS often very unhealthy.

I would simply suggest that, if this concerns you, just always make sure that you're fueling your health with your workouts. Not fueling your workouts with your health.

Of course, if you WANT to do steroids and insulin and 40 different kinds of supplement stacks and cut obsessively, bulk obsessively, etc etc... then I'm not suggesting you should stop if you don't want to. I'm of the firm belief that as long as you're not hurting anyone else, that you should go ahead and do whatever the heck makes you happy.

I was wondering how far from anorexia is the common approach of fitness on these forums ?


Considering the consistantly good advice given from senior contributors, quiet far actually

Check out this thread:

http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?t=40156

Yes this guy did get some flack over his choices but certain members didn't give up and eventually convinced him to adopt a healthier approach when it would be far easier to simply not commenting bother at all

I personally believe that no one can achieve success in life in any meaningful way without first making more demands of oneself

If John or any other experienced lifter expresses misgivings over they're progress its not because they are miserable but rather they have lofty goals and want to succeed in them - and you know what? They often do

You raise a good point. People have always been vain but in terms of the seeking a buff physique crowd i.e. training for pure aesthetics as opposed to some kind of sporting or athletic function (which I would guess probably represents 95 percent plus of the folk on forums like this one), at what stage (if any) does that pursuit cross the line from a normal and healthy pursuit of a physical appearance goal into an unhealthy obsession which is turning one into a bit of a weirdo and a social pariah etc ?


I guess the difference is that anorexia is a psychological disorder that can prove ulitmately prematurely fatal - that shouldn't generally apply to natural trainees going for a six pack etc, short of any questions of high protein diets being unhealthy in the long run. Also anorexia involves the sufferer having a warped perception of their physique - that doesn't seem to apply much to folk on forums like these - if you look at the media gallery threads, posters putting up pictures of themselves generally know when they're in shape or out of shape.


I think it's more or less just a personal thing how far you take it. For Joe Average, i.e. non athlete, non competing bodybuilder, just a guy wanting a buff physique, I'd say going as far as permanently giving up socialising as they don't want to be near alcohol or junk food (And I think there are some who do go as far as this or nearly as far) then that's going way too far given one is training for personal aesthetics only and for no other reason. I think it has became an unhealthy obsession at that point. It has then become a case of the tail (ie. your physique goals) wagging the dog (i.e. your wider life).

Who is not obsessed more than reason by its meals and BF%?
Who is not stressed by a non planned cheat meal, or will neglect its social life in order to stay on the track?
Who has ever been really satisfied with its results, and did no want more and more ?
Who's sure that he isn't trying to control his body in order compensate deeper problems?

I'm sure these questions apply just as much to people trying to GAIN weight on these forums.

Hi,

I was wondering how far from anorexia is the common approach of fitness on these forums ?
Who is not obsessed more than reason by its meals and BF%?
Who is not stressed by a non planned cheat meal, or will neglect its social life in order to stay on the track?
Who has ever been really satisfied with its results, and did no want more and more ?
Who's sure that he isn't trying to control his body in order compensate deeper problems?

From Wikipedia:
Anorexia nervosa is a psychiatric diagnosis that describes an eating disorder characterized by low body weight and body image distortion with an obsessive fear of gaining weight. Individuals with anorexia often control body weight by voluntary starvation, purging, vomiting, excessive exercise, or other weight control measures, such as diet pills or diuretic drugs. It primarily affects adolescent females, however approximately 10% of people with the diagnosis are male. Anorexia nervosa is a complex condition, involving psychological, neurobiological, and sociological components.

I'm just thinking about all this for myself, hoping to go on for health and fitness, but not slip on the "too much" side.
What do you think for yourself ?

Matthieu

Really simply answer, if you're fat, you can't be anorexic. So for males, unless you can see your abs and have no belly fat, keep dieting. Anorexia doesn't apply to you.

Really simply answer, if you're fat, you can't be anorexic. So for males, unless you can see your abs and have no belly fat, keep dieting. Anorexia doesn't apply to you.

Folk can be anorexic having been overweight before - so you could still be fat and on the way to anorexia as it were. 90 percent of the sufferers are females though and I don't think anorexia is of much relevance to forums like these.

For what it's worth I don't think the original poster was trying to refer strictly to anorexia but to the question of some kind of analagous psychological disorder/unhealthy obsession or whatever that might present itself in guys who're seeking the buff look of Men's Health cover models. I think he made some interesting points but I don't think anorexia specifically comes into it much. I think he makes an interesting point re masking deeper problems - I'm sure there will be an element with some guys of attaching too much significance to getting a buff physique in that they think if they get "there" (wherever there is) it will magically solve other problems in their life, when of course it won't. It could have positive knock on effects in other areas of one's life but it's obviously not a cure all either.

And obviously one could extend such a discussion to the sociological issues of peer pressure to look a certain way, media and advertising pressure to achieve a certain look etc., but that's something that one could discuss all day.

I'm sure these questions apply just as much to people trying to GAIN weight on these forums.


I think the poster is probably trying to refer to folk seeking "body recomposition" generally, as opposed to those just seeking to shed weight/shed fat/"cut", whether that endeavour involves bulking, cutting, maintaining or whatever.

As I was I saying I don't think anorexia specifically is of much relevance to the issue of blokes (it being mostly blokes who're aspiring to the whole body recomposition thing) trying to get a buff physique.

this thread is making me hungry.

For what it's worth I don't think the original poster was trying to refer strictly to anorexia but to the question of some kind of analagous psychological disorder/unhealthy obsession or whatever that might present itself in guys who're seeking the buff look of Men's Health cover models.

Yep, that's exactly what I wanted to say. I just compare some JFS member's behavior to anorexia, I don't say it leads to anorexia.
Of course, most of us are trying to pack muscle, and most of us know that starving yourself would destroy these precious, so the huge majority will not fall into anorexia, BUT could experience social or self esteem issues comparable to anorexia... that was my idea.

I think he makes an interesting point re masking deeper problems - I'm sure there will be an element with some guys of attaching too much significance to getting a buff physique in that they think if they get "there" (wherever there is) it will magically solve other problems in their life, when of course it won't.

Well that's what is thinking my nutritionist about me since I talked about carb cycling and bulking...
She's also thinking that any competitor bodybuilder is probably compensating an inner weakness, which might be possible actually... I don't know...
About myself, I guess my inner weakness (which I'm fighting against trying to get more and more) is probably the one that made me come so fat, so one in one, having a weakness, I prefer having it in shape :)

You can be overweight and anorexic. It's just that those who are are typically also binge eaters. Binge, refrain from eating for a for a day or two. Repeat. You can get fat doing this, depending on how often you binge, how long you starve yourself, etc.

EDIT:

Bulimia and anorexia can overlap. Bulimics are generally higher in weight than anorexics. Those suffering from bulimia are often average to overweight, while anorexics are typically underweight.

Also, anorexia isn't just "not eating." Often they eat many times a day, but they still don't consume a lot of calories - think small salads with no dressing or anything but very low calorie veggies. This is a type of eating disorder that I'm sure those on this forum could suffer from. Eating six times a day does not mean you are eating sufficient calories.

BTW, I'm getting most of my info from "Eating Disorders: New Directions in Treatment and Recovery" by Barbara P. Kinoy (Editor).

I will bite on these questions :) (I hope they weren't one hundred percent rhetorical)


I was wondering how far from anorexia is the common approach of fitness on these forums ?

When I lost the bulk of my weigh I consumed probably <1000 calories a day. Some would argue this was bordering on an eating disorder, but I felt pretty good, and recent reading I've done from Lyle McDonald tells me that it wasn't that bad. When you're really fat your body can take the stress of very low calorie diets. (VLCDs)

I wouldn't ever think of doing that now, which is good, because my body is no longer at a bodyfat% that could sustain such a stress.


Who is not obsessed more than reason by its meals and BF%?

Define "reason." I take bodyfat measurements every two weeks, and pictures and weigh in every week. It bums me out when the numbers don't match up, and usually results in a diet tweak. However, I think this is perfectly reasonable and healthy.


Who is not stressed by a non planned cheat meal, or will neglect its social life in order to stay on the track?

This would stress me out, but I don't cheat anymore. I enjoy the foods I eat.


Who has ever been really satisfied with its results, and did no want more and more ?

I've never been satisfied, and friends and family often wonder when I will stop. "Will you ever be satisfied?" The answer is that, no, I will never be 100% satisfied, but that doesn't mean I won't feel pretty damn great at 7% bodyfat. EDIT: This is an arbitrary number. The point is I know I feel better at 10-11% bodyfat than I did at 30%, and I know I'd feel even better if I were rocking a six pack and a four plate squat.


Who's sure that he isn't trying to control his body in order compensate deeper problems?

I don't think so. I just like to improve myself and achieve goals. I also really enjoy the health aspects, and have been doing a lot of reading recently outside of the standard bodybuilding fair. Stuff like The Omnivore's Dilemma and Steroid Nation are both about our culture's relationship with food and body image. My next book is probably going to be related to vegetarianism, actually.

Yep, that's exactly what I wanted to say. I just compare some JFS member's behavior to anorexia, I don't say it leads to anorexia.


I read here (http://skwigg.com/id8.html) that what you're referring to can is called orthorexia - not sure if this is a widely accepted term. I would say many of the points mentioned apply to lots of people on JSF....me included. I don't believe in the inner weakness theory. So what if it's a sign of an inner weakness, isn't being overweight a sign of weakness too? and if you follow the logic of your nutritionist then you could say that every competitive athlete has a psychological problem!

I read here (http://skwigg.com/id8.html) that what you're referring to can is called orthorexia
Damn!!! You're scaring me!! I did the test and I'm definitely orthorexic!! :)

I read here (http://skwigg.com/id8.html) that what you're referring to can is called orthorexia - not sure if this is a widely accepted term. I would say many of the points mentioned apply to lots of people on JSF....me included. I don't believe in the inner weakness theory. So what if it's a sign of an inner weakness, isn't being overweight a sign of weakness too? and if you follow the logic of your nutritionist then you could say that every competitive athlete has a psychological problem!Absolutely correct.

There is not much incidence of anorexia here, but plenty of orthorexia. Here's another article about it:

http://psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-3603.html

The term orthorexia is used by some eating-disorder specialists to describe an unhealthy fixation with healthy eating.

With almost 65 percent of Americans overweight, the hazards of eating too healthfully may seem like nit-picking. But Bunnell sees a hidden danger in the recent public focus on obesity: undue anxiety.

There's a difference between anorexia, a behavior that can result in physiological stresses and damage to physical well-being, and orthorexia, which can result in psychological stresses and damage to psychological well-being.

I can see that orthorexia is a disordered eating pattern, but it's not necessarily something that essentially needs to be treated. If a person can honestly say that his or her life feels whole and complete while engaging in these behaviors, then there's really not a problem. The exception I can think of is when their spouse or other people close to them are having problems relating to them as a result.

Here's some reading from the doctor who coined the term orthorexia (http://www.orthorexia.com/index.php?page=essay).

Who is not obsessed more than reason by its meals and BF%?
I'm not.
Who is not stressed by a non planned cheat meal, or will neglect its social life in order to stay on the track?I have a couple of times, but not as a habit.

Who has ever been really satisfied with its results, and did no want more and more ?Usually, I'm satisfied with several aspects of my fitness at any one point, but I'm usually targeting a specific area for improvement also. I would think it's pretty sad to NOT be wanting to strive for me.

Who's sure that he isn't trying to control his body in order compensate deeper problems?I'm not really trying to "compensate" for other areas. But I certainly feel a whole lot better about my deeper problems when at least one area of my life is in control. I'd say that my renewed interest ("obsession"?) in healthy eating in February 2004 WAS the treatment for somewhat more disordered behavior than my current patterns. :p

I read here (http://skwigg.com/id8.html) that what you're referring to can is called orthorexia - not sure if this is a widely accepted term. I would say many of the points mentioned apply to lots of people on JSF....me included. I don't believe in the inner weakness theory. So what if it's a sign of an inner weakness, isn't being overweight a sign of weakness too? and if you follow the logic of your nutritionist then you could say that every competitive athlete has a psychological problem!


That's an interesting link but reading Wikipedia this Orthorexia term appears to have been coined by one guy to apply more to people who become obsessed with healthy eating per se, e.g those who get utterly obsessed with avoiding any kind of processed food, any product with preservatives animal fats etc., to the point where paradoxically they become so malnourished and emaciated that it can be fatal in extreme cases. Reading Wikipedia the term does not appear to be designed to appear to folks obsessed with buffing up. Orthorexia seems to be closer to anorexia than any question of being overly obsessed with buffing up in that an obsession with healthy eating in extreme cases, (which extreme cases would be labelled Orthorexics) can paradoxically lead to death due to malnourishment.




It seems to me that a "true" Orthorexic is obsessed with healthy eating for healthy eating's sake, that's different from those seeking to buff up as the obsession with the food is not so much for the sake of health as in pursuit of a an aesthetic, body recomposition goal. Here's the Wikipedia link



http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:XkGd1f0L-jIJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthorexia_nervosa+Orthorexia&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=uk

I think a direct comparison with folk obsessed with buffing up and anorexia and also perhaps this "orthorexia" is perhaps trivialising the latter two - yes there can be problems with overly obsessing with the former but the former is a much more normal and straightforward condition whereas the latter two are by comparison much more pathological. I'm not sure that an obsession with a buffing up diet - eg. high protein, low carbs, carb cycling etc. would be labelled as an "eating diosorder" I think perhaps the original post could have been better written in this regard. Yes there may be some parallels between an obsession with a buffing up diet and anorexia and some negative consequences (probably predominantly negative social consequences) flowing from it, but I don't think you can make a direct comparison between the two things and think the way the original post was written - jumping from the topic of anorexia on to folk obsessed with nutrition in an attempt to to buff up their physiques - some folk might infer that was the point of the post, even if that was not the original poster's intention.

In fairness to the original poster I don't think English is his first language, which won't make it easy to articulate thoughts on what's obviously a pretty complicated and wide spectrum topic.

I think that link you posted seems to be tongue and cheek and is having a fairly light hearted dig at those who turn themselves into something of a social pariah in their single minded endeavour to buff up, it doesn't seem to have much relevance to "true" Orthorexics which the label was coined for.No, it's a real term.

A person who is orthorexic is a person who cannot get joy from eating, and who becomes socially isolated because of his or her lifestyle. The behaviors themselves are not the problem, but there could be an underlying psychological problem which causes them to act in such extreme ways.

Anorexia isn't about eating, really. Anorexia is a psychological condition in which the people who suffer from it literally cannot see the reality of what they're doing to their bodies. It's very, very close to schizophrenia on the scale of psychological disorders, and can be much more deadly.

When I see people tossing around the term "anorexia" as if it's somehow related to dieting, it's disheartening, because it's sort of armchair psychology that takes away the need for treatment that truly disturbed people need. An anorexic is related to diet and exercise the same way that a self-cutter is related to a tattoo artist. It's not an extension of diet and exercise, it's a symptom of a very serious psychological disorder.

Interesting to note that not a single respondant to this post is female.

EDIT Ooops - that's what I get for going to lunch efore hitting the send button. Next time I'll check before.

As for being obsessed with healthy eating and/or BF%, I would say that I have never felt that this was an issue here, or with any of the member posts I've read to date. More often it is newer posters who are seeking to correct past bad behaviors and get in better physical conditioning. All good things in my book.

No, it's a real term.

A person who is orthorexic is a person who cannot get joy from eating, and who becomes socially isolated because of his or her lifestyle. The behaviors themselves are not the problem, but there could be an underlying psychological problem which causes them to act in such extreme ways.


Yeah, I'll need to edit that section of my post cos on looking at the link again that link doesn't make any reference to gym rats and the buffin up brigade at all Lol.

I realised on reading the Wikipedia link it is a real term but as I stated in above post I don't think Orthoreoxia applies to what I'll just label just now as the "buffin up brigade" (in which I could include myself as I'm primarily doing weight training for aesthetics), it seems to apply to folk who get pathologically neurotic about healthy eating per se.

Interesting to note that not a single respondant to this post is female.


There's one now:) (not me incidentally:D)

Yeah but anorexia seems statisitically to be overwhelmingly a female issue given this 90 percent of sufferers being female figure)

Orthoreoxia seems to apply to folk who get pathologically neurotic about healthy eating per se.
I also have seen that some "disorders" are a convenient way to label people who don't fit in to normal patterns of behavior. If a person is different from other people in a certain way that makes other people uncomfortable, then that person is considered to be in need of help. Sometimes the behaviors that are considered abnormal can be somewhat arbitrary. Consider this example:

A couple decides to go on a weekend camping trip in the woods where their friends have agreed to supply all of the foods and beverages. He eats and drinks so much that he gets violently ill each night, vomitting a couple of times. She eats so little of the provided food that she faints in the middle of the second day. Who is more likely to be labelled as disordered? :rolleyes:

Anorexia isn't about eating, really. Anorexia is a psychological condition in which the people who suffer from it literally cannot see the reality of what they're doing to their bodies. It's very, very close to schizophrenia on the scale of psychological disorders, and can be much more deadly.

When I see people tossing around the term "anorexia" as if it's somehow related to dieting, it's disheartening, because it's sort of armchair psychology that takes away the need for treatment that truly disturbed people need.I am not a psychiatrist, so I don't know the true answer to this. But I think anorexia is related to dieting because dieting is how anorexics exhibit their symptoms. As far as I know, it's not a case of either you have it or you don't; there are mild, moderate, and severe stages of this disorder.

An elite anything [bodybuilder,dog catcher anything] will be obsessed when compared to a normal sane person. You don't get to be elite by being normal. I'm Italian so of course I'm worry about my food. It's in the breeding -) I wonder how much of the others are related to &quot;success&quot; If you've been over weight much of your life and start seeing results you want more. It's positive reinforcement. For some this becomes a problem. On cheats I've never considered anything a cheat. I eat pizza when I want. I don't tend to eat cookies,sweets or cakes but I don't want them either. If I did they wouldn't be cheats but would be fitted in with every thing else.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I am obsessed with fat loss. However, the smart way to go about is to work hard at the gym, feed my body the macros it needs and just keep a slight caloric deficit every day. That way, no suffering and I get the result I want. But that takes an ordered mind. I'm just amazed at how many mental disorders there are out there, maybe I was just lucky.

I am not a psychiatrist, so I don't know the true answer to this. But I think anorexia is related to dieting because dieting is how anorexics exhibit their symptoms. As far as I know, it's not a case of either you have it or you don't; there are mild, moderate, and severe stages of this disorder.



I'm not an expert either but understand there are both psychiatric and sociological dynamics involved in anorexia. Psychiatric cos there's psychosis involved as the anorexic's image of their own body becomes totally distorted, and out of touch with reality. Sociological cos apparently there's an element of sociological pressure on women to be thin as promoted by media and film stars etc which can play its part in the condition.

I think if you're talking about the buff up brigade, there doesn't really seem to be much of an element of psychiatric considerations, but there are certainly parallels with the sociological side of it. Most, if not all folk who are weight training and seeking body recomposition purely for aesthetic reasons are presumably doing so due to social pressure, or at least a perceived social pressure, to try and achieve a look promoted by media etc. as the ideal, i.e. six pack blah blah. I'd say that this training purely for aesthetics thing is probably a quite recent phenomenon. It's largely something I think which has been promoted by supplements companies and the leisure industry, generally, it's a commercial thing and I guess in that way you could compare it to an all year round St. Valentine's Day or Mother's Day (i.e. designed to sell shit).

100 years ago I doubt there were too many people training for aesthetics lol.

Hi,

I was wondering how far from anorexia is the common approach of fitness on these forums ?
Who is not obsessed more than reason by its meals and BF%?
Who is not stressed by a non planned cheat meal, or will neglect its social life in order to stay on the track?
Who has ever been really satisfied with its results, and did no want more and more ?
Who's sure that he isn't trying to control his body in order compensate deeper problems?

From Wikipedia:
Anorexia nervosa is a psychiatric diagnosis that describes an eating disorder characterized by low body weight and body image distortion with an obsessive fear of gaining weight. Individuals with anorexia often control body weight by voluntary starvation, purging, vomiting, excessive exercise, or other weight control measures, such as diet pills or diuretic drugs. It primarily affects adolescent females, however approximately 10% of people with the diagnosis are male. Anorexia nervosa is a complex condition, involving psychological, neurobiological, and sociological components.

I'm just thinking about all this for myself, hoping to go on for health and fitness, but not slip on the "too much" side.
What do you think for yourself ?

Matthieu

I can't speak for everyone else here, but as far as obsessive, perhaps to a degree. I do want to see my abs one day. But anorexia in comparision to a healthy cut diet are two different things. My approach was to determine how many actual calories I needed to be in the negative to get my bodyfat down. I know it's working because I'm lifting more weight each week but the bodyfat is going down. I'm close to where I want and can see the light. I knew someone who was an anorexic. Not a pretty sight. Never eating. She got so bad that even drinking water made her sick to her stomach. It was horrible. Not a side of the fence I'll ever cross to, I can tell you that for sure. Plus ever since I made this lifestyle change, I love to cook!! My g/f thinks I'm crazy cause I'm always cooking and cleaning dishes but she never complains when there are two plates ready with good food instead of Wendy's or Whataburger.

Plus I'm not so obsessed that my social life is gone. I do party hard on the weekends. It may be slowing me up some but then again, I'm not in any big hurry with it all. I want to have my fun as well. Otherwise I would probably get sick of it all. It wouldn't be fun anymore.

I for one can't wait to get the cut done so I can get bigger and eat more grub MMMMMMMM!!
:eat::eat::eat::eat::eat:

:bb::bb::bb::bb:

Hi,

Who is not obsessed more than reason by its meals and BF%?


Not me. I try to generally eat healthy, but really don't care all that much if I stray. BF%? Couldn't care less....as long as it isn't in the unhealthy range (above 15%).

Who is not stressed by a non planned cheat meal, or will neglect its social life in order to stay on the track?

I'm partially guilty here. I don't care about cheat meals. I'll eat 3 per day if I feel like it, but, I've turned down social invitations in the past because they would interfere with my workouts.

Who has ever been really satisfied with its results, and did no want more and more ?

Satisfied? Yes, but I still strive to improve.


I do think that some people go a bit overboard -- mentally beating themselves up over some minor dietary infraction, or REALLY obsessing and craving a particular food/drink, but denying themselves anyway just to stay on track. Personally, I think that is nuts -- but as long as it doesn't disrupt the life of the person doing it, then it doesn't seem pathological. Only when it starts to become a problem in your life, or it starts to take over your life, does it enter the realm of the crazy.

http://skwigg.com/id8.html

So I went there and read it, and all I have to say is this person is completely full of shit. (Sorry for the language)

"Do you plan tomorrow's food today?

Orthorexics tend to dwell on upcoming menus. "Today I will eat steamed broccoli, while tomorrow I will boil Swiss chard. The day after that I think I'll make brown rice with adzuki beans." If you get a thrill of pleasure from contemplating a healthy menu the day after tomorrow, something is wrong with your focus."

Who the @#$% is this guy to tell me how to live my life?

The whole website/article is like that. Complete BS. Why don't I make up a fancy term, like for instance, sheep-o-rexic. I'll use it to describe everyone who does what is "normal" because it's "normal" instead of what they enjoy doing.

Neitzsche had a couple of things right above slave/Noble mentality.

I am not a psychiatrist, so I don't know the true answer to this. But I think anorexia is related to dieting because dieting is how anorexics exhibit their symptoms. As far as I know, it's not a case of either you have it or you don't; there are mild, moderate, and severe stages of this disorder.

Yes, certainly. It's just that anorexics aren't dieters who've gone too far, it's often the case that dieting triggers anorexia in those who are prone to it. Anorexia is about mental control, to a psychotic degree. It's like cutting, or ripping out hair, or obsessive-compulsive disorder, it's just linked to body dysmorphia, where the anorexic literally sees something completely different than what is true in reality.

People don't become anorexic because they've over-dieted, they're anorexic, and their symptoms present themselves through their diet. It sounds like splitting hairs, and in a way, it is, but an ultra-thin runway model isn't any more anorexic than anyone else, so long as that model sees her/his body the way it actually is, and understands the consequences of eating/not eating beyond how it establishes control.

Anorexia is also an enormously frustrating disorder, because most people don't understand why an anorexic won't "just eat," where eating is usually the final step in recovery, after all the other psychological issues are covered. (Unless the lack of food has put the anorexic into such a crisis that force/tube feeding is required.)

Who the @#$% is this guy to tell me how to live my life?



Read the fine print :lol:



Tiny Fine Print Disclaimer:

I put the Orthrexia info on here because it described me perfectly and I thought it was hilarious. Do I have orhorexia? Yeah, probably. Do I care?
Nooooooo... I decided that whole "recovery" thing is for suckers and weaklings. LOL Which probably means that I've gone **completely** over the deep end. :-)

Several months ago I backed off the bodybuilding nutrition and decided I was going to re-learn to eat like a normal person. You know what? Normal people are fat and depressed!! I promptly gained 10 pounds, lost my abs, lost my definition, couldn't button my jeans, started bulging out of my little spandex shorts... it was not pretty, not pretty at all. It was one of those Geneen Roth "embrace your inner cow" books that prompted me to stray from BFL. It was all about eat what you want, when you're hungry, and stop when you're full. Well, yeah, right! All I wanted was junk. I mean, that's *all* I wanted. And whatever mechanism it is that tells people they're full, I don't have one of those. I'll eat until I explode.

So, yes, if you're less strict with your nutrition you will gain weight and you will compromise your results. I don't miss eating pizza with friends
because I do it every week. I also eat popcorn at movies, cake at birthday parties, glazed donuts for breakfast, and lunch at the McDonalds drive-thru. Only one day a week though!

Read the fine print :lol:

Blah. :o

Figures that the disclaimer would be so tiny. :lol:

This happens every once in a while, someone reads the technical definition of an eating disorder and then thinks about what we actually do on this website and starts to worry that at the highest level some of the wording sounds the same.

For a vast majority of the people on this forum, it is ridiculous to compare what they are doing to anorexia from a physical standpoint of what they are actually doing to their bodies. I think most people here have got the idea that severe calorie restriction is not the way to go. And I don't think anorexics are typically known to eat 6 small meals, eat a protein heavy diet, good carbs, healthy fats, AND work out with weights. These are all things that characterize the typical fitness programs on here, and none of them describe the typical person with anorexia.

And I think most people here know, that when you eat clean food, it ends up being a hell of a lot of food.

Now if you are saying the psychological part is similar because they both involve a closer inspection of what you eat or an "obsession", i still don't think this is enough to really draw a comparison. The physical outcome is usually very different. An over emphasis on fitness to the point where it truly becomes a negative obsession is a condition in its own right and it doesn't make sense to lump it with anorexia, just because they both involve body image and eating habits.

Hi all,
I shouldn't have talked about anorexia but more about orthorexia (which I did not know about yesterday when I wrote the message).

My idea was to spot the fact that although permanent focus on dieting is a key of success (I speak for myself), it can become so obsessive that it is more negative than beneficial. (more effective for the fitness and health but more destructive for social life, self esteem aso..).

However, after reading all the answers to my thread, I feel much better now, as I agree that "willing more" is not a lack of self esteem but more an 'achiever's attitude'.

I hope I'm clear, as some one spotted english is not my first language and some subjects are subtle enough to say the opposite of what you mean :)

By the way, GravityHomer, I owe my results as much to you than to John, because your sticky was a revelatoin to me :bow: :bow: :bow:

Yes, certainly. It's just that anorexics aren't dieters who've gone too far, it's often the case that dieting triggers anorexia in those who are prone to it. Anorexia is about mental control, to a psychotic degree. It's like cutting, or ripping out hair, or obsessive-compulsive disorder, it's just linked to body dysmorphia, where the anorexic literally sees something completely different than what is true in reality.

People don't become anorexic because they've over-dieted, they're anorexic, and their symptoms present themselves through their diet. It sounds like splitting hairs, and in a way, it is, but an ultra-thin runway model isn't any more anorexic than anyone else, so long as that model sees her/his body the way it actually is, and understands the consequences of eating/not eating beyond how it establishes control.

Anorexia is also an enormously frustrating disorder, because most people don't understand why an anorexic won't "just eat," where eating is usually the final step in recovery, after all the other psychological issues are covered. (Unless the lack of food has put the anorexic into such a crisis that force/tube feeding is required.)

I hadn't replied to this thread yet, but this truely is probably a better way of describing anorexia then any of the definitions that have been linked to. The symptoms they like to talk about are issues for the anorexic, but really the disease is much more about a warped way of thinking about food and losing weight as a way to control their lives.


Hi all,
I shouldn't have talked about anorexia but more about orthorexia (which I did not know about yesterday when I wrote the message).

My idea was to spot the fact that although permanent focus on dieting is a key of success (I speak for myself), it can become so obsessive that it is more negative than beneficial. (more effective for the fitness and health but more destructive for social life, self esteem aso..).

However, after reading all the answers to my thread, I feel much better now, as I agree that "willing more" is not a lack of self esteem but more an 'achiever's attitude'.

I hope I'm clear, as some one spotted english is not my first language and some subjects are subtle enough to say the opposite of what you mean :)

By the way, GravityHomer, I owe my results as much to you than to John, because your sticky was a revelatoin to me :bow: :bow: :bow:

To be honest, if the dieting/body recomposition is actually lowering your self-esteem as the weight comes off, there may actually be a problem going on that needs to be addressed. I know I can look in the mirror and groan about the roll still around my middle and hate the saddlebags that I swear look more pronounced since I lost the last 10lbs. These are real issues with my body which reflect the fact that I still have a good 20-30lbs left to lose. But at the exact same time I can love the fact that right next to the saddlebags is this great thigh muscle that just pops when I step. I love the fact that I can still wrestle with my kids for hours and not get tired and winded. I can honestly say I feel 100% better about myself and more confident now then 40lbs ago.

An anorexic would not be able to say that. They honestly would not be able to even see the difference and feel like they have failed their entire being because they couldn't control themselves enough to lose faster.

By the way, GravityHomer, I owe my results as much to you than to John, because your sticky was a revelatoin to me :bow: :bow: :bow:

Glad it helped you out :tucool:



I can honestly say I feel 100% better about myself and more confident now then 40lbs ago.


Congrats on the 40lbs FBchick! I know what it's like to lose a bunch of weight and then always hover just above where you ultimately want to be. That part is really the struggle that never ends. Even when you reach the final goal look, maintaining at that point is tough, at least for me.

Well having been at both ends of the spectrum anorexic 20+ years ago and a typical JSFer I can say there is a pretty huge difference between the two lifestyles. a lot is to do with perception of the body and perception of food "the enemy" etc but maybe the biggest difference for me is happiness... I was desperately unhappy and lived trapped by fear as an anorexic and I am very happy as a slightly obessive healthy eater/exerciser and enjoy a very good social life even if my friends think I am a bit quirky :D

I also have seen that some "disorders" are a convenient way to label people who don't fit in to normal patterns of behavior. If a person is different from other people in a certain way that makes other people uncomfortable, then that person is considered to be in need of help.

An elite anything [bodybuilder,dog catcher anything] will be obsessed when compared to a normal sane person. You don't get to be elite by being normal.

Exactly. I for one have a big problem with all the labeling that goes on in today's society. It seems like a lot of people these days think that everyone should be so "well adjusted" that they have no "unusual" behaviors or tendancies.

Every single person who has ever achieved anything extraordinary has had something driving them that probably doesn't fit into society's expected norms. A good deal of these overachievers were probably were driven not by positive thoughts but by negative "inner demons" or obsessions. To that I say: SO WHAT?

I have no desire to be totally at peace with myself. In this world I don't feel thats achievable anyway. Sure there are a lot of people who are fooling themselves thinking they have it all figured out. Those people will get their wake-up calls sooner or later. I prefer to accept the fact that we are all imperfect and its those imperfections that make us interesting. So I will live with my mild obsession regarding my appearance and health and be content with the knowledge that at least I will look good doing it.

I am in no way trying to marginalize those people with health-threatening disorders like anorexia, but the fact that a disorder like orthrexia even exists bothers me.

I've been "obsessive" about body composition and diet for the past 3 years. Before then, I had a body fat percentage above 30%, I was diagnosed with diabetes, and I had an all-pervasive can't-do attitude.

Since making the change, my glycaemic control is very good (without ever using anti-diabetes drugs), my lipids are better than average, blood pressure is normal, and I'm happy and confident in life. I also get pleasure from the progress I've made with my physique and enjoy the challenge of always going further. For me, it would be a dull day if there were no further goal to aim for.

Other people define this is "obsession", and I was once told by my doctor that it constitutes a psychological problem. I'm no expert so I can't argue about what is or isn't an illness of some specific type. But since my quality of life has improved significantly (and since my future outlook has improved), why should I change?