I'm just starting WS4SB and I'm slightly confused about the rep ranges and progressive loading (in general, what a noob?). As up until now I've mainly been doing aiming a particular number of reps and if I didn't hit that number I'd do it again until I did.

An example from my workout today. I had to do 4 sets of curls with 8-15 reps. Now that's a pretty wide margin and as it happened I picked a weight where I was able to do 15, 12, 10 then 9. All within the rep range. What does this mean I should do?


Should I keep the current weight until I get all 60 reps?
Should I raise the weight next work and hope I can get in the rep range for all sets again next time?
Should perhaps lower the weight and make sure I'm hitting around the top rep number in each of the sets before progressing? (kinda like option 1 but starting more realistically)
None of the above

The way I did it was that I'd keep with the same weight until I could do all the prescribed reps and sets. e.g. if it said 3-4 sets of 6-8 reps, I'd only increase weight when I could complete 4 sets of 8.

The way I did it was that I'd keep with the same weight until I could do all the prescribed reps and sets. e.g. if it said 3-4 sets of 6-8 reps, I'd only increase weight when I could complete 4 sets of 8.

I remember in the starting strength write up they said increase the weight if you could get 13 of the required 15 reps. So with the 3x5 if you got 5/4/4 you could increase next time.

I remember in the starting strength write up they said increase the weight if you could get 13 of the required 15 reps. So with the 3x5 if you got 5/4/4 you could increase next time.

Its been a while since I read it, but I think you only increase the weight once you can complete all fifteen reps.

Its been a while since I read it, but I think you only increase the weight once you can complete all fifteen reps.

Of all the sets?

Of all the sets?

I did it different than gaz, I upped my weight when I could complete 15 reps (without completely going to failure) on the first set.

My advice is to not worry about too much. Either way is a valid progression.

I did it different than gaz, I upped my weight when I could complete 15 reps (without completely going to failure) on the first set.

My advice is to not worry about too much. Either way is a valid progression.

I like the sound of this a little better and it's nearer to what I always though progressive loading was. It could take me weeks to get all those reps.

What were your other sets like though once you have reached 15 without going to failure? Were they similar to what I posted?

What were your other sets like though once you have reached 15 without going to failure? Were they similar to what I posted?

Depends on the muscles involved. Some fatigue more progressively like that, some I'd have a bit of drop off from set 1 to 2, then it would level out.

Again, I wouldn't worry too much. Don't go to failure ever set of every exercise, but push up to the edge.

Depends on the muscles involved. Some fatigue more progressively like that, some I'd have a bit of drop off from set 1 to 2, then it would level out.

Again, I wouldn't worry too much. Don't go to failure ever set of every exercise, but push up to the edge.

Ok, I think I'll up the weight once I can meet the max range on the first set comfortably and get within the range on all subsequent sets. :tu:

An example from my workout today. I had to do 4 sets of curls with 8-15 reps. Now that's a pretty wide margin and as it happened I picked a weight where I was able to do 15, 12, 10 then 9. All within the rep range. What does this mean I should do?
You might be thinking about it too much. Try to pick a weight that has you getting close to failure within 8-15 reps. Yes it's a wide margin. :) Keep the weight the same for all 4 reps. If you do 15, 15, 15, 15 you should increase the weight next week.

Should I keep the current weight until I get all 60 reps?
Up to you really. Some would say you should. I wouldn't necessarily say that.

It's really up to you and DeFranco talks a lot about how you can feel free to customize things to your needs. If you get 15, 15, 14, 14 then you can increase next week too if you want to, because you might know instinctively that this weight is going to probably be too light next time.

Should I raise the weight next work and hope I can get in the rep range for all sets again next time?
After you have more experience you'll know these answers by instinct. Let me show you a couple of example and how I would personally look at them:

SCENARIO 1:
100 x 15 / 15 / 15 / 11 <--Assuming the first 3 sets were not so hard.
In this case I might increase the weight next week. True I died a bit on that last set, but those first three sets had me stopping at 15 when I could have easily knocked out 2-3 more reps on them.

SCENARIO 2:
100 x 15 / 12 / 9 / 8
In this case I would probably leave the weight the same next week.

But again, it's really up to you and experimentation is key; experience is going to teach you how to do this properly.

Should perhaps lower the weight and make sure I'm hitting around the top rep number in each of the sets before progressing? (kinda like option 1 but starting more realistically)
Again, up to you. Just try to stay in that rep range. And remember that curls are not really your "money lifts" or "indicators" as (I think) DeFranco calls them. This exercise is not nearly as important as the squats, bench press, deads, etc. I'm not saying not to do them, but I am saying you shouldn't get so concerned about it. Just train hard and tweak and adjust as you go along where you see fit.

(For what it's worth, at 15 / 12 / 10 / 9, I personally would not lower the weight. Stay with what you're at until you're hitting 15 - or close to it - on alll 4 sets.)

Its been a while since I read it, but I think you only increase the weight once you can complete all fifteen reps.
That is how I do it too.

I did it different than gaz, I upped my weight when I could complete 15 reps (without completely going to failure) on the first set.

My advice is to not worry about too much. Either way is a valid progression.
That's fine too. Like I said it can be adjusted. What's nice about this program (and others like it) is you have a guy like Mannish who obviously has some training experience, and he's tweaked the program to fit his preference and needs. I feel that not only CAN you do this, but in many instances you SHOULD.

(In many instances you shouldn't either; I would not recommend using a Thighmaster for your Max-Effort lift. ;))

My post was in response to Starting Strength 3x5

That's fine too. Like I said it can be adjusted. What's nice about this program (and others like it) is you have a guy like Mannish who obviously has some training experience, and he's tweaked the program to fit his preference and needs. I feel that not only CAN you do this, but in many instances you SHOULD.

I've evolved since I did a closer following of WSFSB to use a bit of the Waterbury maximum recruitment principles on target reps and bar speed. So the program would lay out like WSFSB with ME days upper/lower and RE days (or DE on occasion), but on the non ME lifts I would set a rep target and just do enough sets to hit the goal, terminating sets when I got to the first significantly slower rep. It actually seemed to work well, and it was even less complicated than this discussion.

So for a medium weight exercise (most of the auxiliary work on ME day), I might target 20-25 total reps. It might go 9, 7, 6, but I'd have my target and move on.

It's been awhile since I read the actual WSFSB articles, so I may have been modifying things all along from what Defranco specifically laid out, but I think the key is to keep progressing however you do the specifics. That matters a lot more than specifically what you use to tell you to put more weight on the bar. As long as you are doing more reps/sets/or weight from workout to workout, you're progressing.

(In many instances you shouldn't either; I would not recommend using a Thighmaster for your Max-Effort lift. ;))

I got a wild hair and did weighted chins for 2-3 weeks ME. I can't remember seeing anybody else do those for a ME lift around here, but it was kinda fun to do a few reps with 2 plates. Generally the only "pull" move I've seen ME is the dead.

I would not recommend using a Thighmaster for your Max-Effort lift. ;)

Just when I was starting to think I had done every possible leg workout...:confused:

is this a Waterbury? i need to keep up with his shit

I got a wild hair and did weighted chins for 2-3 weeks ME. I can't remember seeing anybody else do those for a ME lift around here, but it was kinda fun to do a few reps with 2 plates. Generally the only "pull" move I've seen ME is the dead.

I did them once.

is this a Waterbury? i need to keep up with his shit

No, it's Westside for Skinny Bastards (http://www.defrancostraining.com/articles/articles.htm)

So for a medium weight exercise (most of the auxiliary work on ME day), I might target 20-25 total reps. It might go 9, 7, 6, but I'd have my target and move on.
That sounds like an interesting (and completely doable) way of doing it. I've done something like that with bar pushups or suspended chain pushups before, and I think pullups too. Set a target number of reps, do as many as you can, rest a few seconds, do a few more, repeat until the target is reached.

It's been awhile since I read the actual WSFSB articles, so I may have been modifying things all along from what Defranco specifically laid out, but I think the key is to keep progressing however you do the specifics. That matters a lot more than specifically what you use to tell you to put more weight on the bar. As long as you are doing more reps/sets/or weight from workout to workout, you're progressing.
Good point about what matters most. BTW, if you get time you really should read his latest release (WS4SB3, link to PDF above); I think you will enjoy it!

I got a wild hair and did weighted chins for 2-3 weeks ME. I can't remember seeing anybody else do those for a ME lift around here, but it was kinda fun to do a few reps with 2 plates. Generally the only "pull" move I've seen ME is the dead.
You would see someone doing them for ME if you went to my gym. :)

Towards the end of a cutting routine once I was doing a lot of different exercises for ME lifts. They don't HAVE to be limited to bench, squat, dead. I did weighted chins, pullups, and dips sometimes.

Just when I was starting to think I had done every possible leg workout...:confused:

25006

I got a wild hair and did weighted chins for 2-3 weeks ME.

I actually do these all the time -- Usually with a parallel grip though. I love 'em! I treat pullups like any other lift, and adjust the weight and rep ranges accordingly.....

I can't remember seeing anybody else do those for a ME lift around here

Yeah, I'm the only guy in my gym that does these....I've never seen anyone else do them.....

I actually do these all the time -- Usually with a parallel grip though. I love 'em! I treat pullups like any other lift, and adjust the weight and rep ranges accordingly.....



Yeah, I'm the only guy in my gym that does these....I've never seen anyone else do them.....

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one. I love weighted chins.

It's fun to load up a bunch of weight on an exercise most men can't even do a rep or two of.

I'm up to about BW+50-60% for a double last time I tested.

I'm up to about BW+50-60% for a double last time I tested.

Yeah, that is about where I am. I can do BW + 55% for about 2-3 (3 on a good day). I think once I get to where I can do BW + 80% for a couple of reps (probably a long way off :doh:), I might try training some single-arm pulls. I'd love to be able to do those. :nod: