whats the deal with that? Come somebody bring the science down to a level that a liberal arts major can comprehend?:lol:

I ask because I have virtually unlimited access to free fish oil capsules, and if I can healthfully take 20-30 grams a day, I would like to do so! Thanks a ton!

Don't take that much fish oil before surgery, but I take a lot of fish oil and don't have a problems. You probably don't need that much, but there are days I hit 20g or so (but then I take in 150 g+ of fat on many days)

The other concern is too much EPA/DHA can reduce immune system function a bit. I don't worry too much about that because the rest of my diet is in check and full of veggies and other things that help the immune system, and I'm rarely sick.

I just had elbow surgery on 2/6/08. I ceased all supplementation two weeks prior to the procedure at the surgeon's request.

Post-surgery, on the recommendation of a very trusted source, I began taking in 15-20gr of fish oil per day. My personal "healing factor" seems to have skyrocketed since including this in my diet. I began with 5g/day and over the course of a week, ramped up to 15-20g/day. The additional fat also appears to have increased my energy levels throughout the day as well.

While I've always been a fast healer, the additional fish oil (as well as 10-20g/day of flaxseed) seems to have made a significant difference. I'm finding no problems whatsoever, and in fact, a couple of chronically inflamed joints (right shoulder and left ankle, to be precise) have shown definite signs of improvement since starting supplementation and a proper diet the day after I had surgery.

And this is without a lick of training in the gym - I start therapy for the arm tomorrow, and I hope to be released to train again once I've had a session or two with the therapist.

The other concern is too much EPA/DHA can reduce immune system function a bit. I don't worry too much about that because the rest of my diet is in check and full of veggies and other things that help the immune system, and I'm rarely sick.
I have never read that increased fish oil consumption reduces immuno-function, but like you, I maintain my diet in a reasonable way. As a result, I rarely get sick anymore. Other than the occasional allergy problem in springtime, I haven't even had a sniffle in nearly two years. The last time I had a full-blown "cold" was in late summer 2006!

-R

whats the deal with that? Come somebody bring the science down to a level that a liberal arts major can comprehend?:lol:

I ask because I have virtually unlimited access to free fish oil capsules, and if I can healthfully take 20-30 grams a day, I would like to do so! Thanks a ton!

I don't know if there has been any research examining clotting times with fish oil supplementation, but in theory, one of the mechanisms by which it reduces vascular disease is through its ability to inhibit clot formation.

BTW, 20-30 grams is overkill. There seems to be this idea that if a little bit of something is good, then massive quantities of something must be better! Not necessarily true....I haven't seen anything that shows benefits of mega-dosing on fish oil.

I have never read that increased fish oil consumption reduces immuno-function

There is some evidence that it can reduce immuno-function (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11237929?ordinalpos=4&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVDocSum) when taken in large doses. Fish oil is great, but I think we should be wary of the tendency to megadose on something that has been shown to provide benefits in smaller amounts.

Personally, I take enough fish oil to where I get about 2g total of EPA/DHA (which usually translates into about 3-6 caps, depending on the brand).

While I've always been a fast healer, the additional fish oil (as well as 10-20g/day of flaxseed) seems to have made a significant difference.

Given the dose-dependent association of alpha linoleic acid with prostate cancer, you might also want to reconsider mega-dosing on flax oil. Better to skip the oil and just eat the seeds.

BTW, 20-30 grams is overkill. There seems to be this idea that if a little bit of something is good, then massive quantities of something must be better! Not necessarily true....I haven't seen anything that shows benefits of mega-dosing on fish oil.

There are some pretty respected coaches that suggest high doses, such as Poloquin, Waterbury, and others. It's not unheard of.

I also suspect PUFA/Omega 3s might need to scale with other fats in my case to offset inflammation from other fats (omega 6 or saturateds) on a high fat diet. But that's just my suspicion. I could be totally off base.

I don't go up to 30g per day, though.

There are some pretty respected coaches that suggest high doses, such as Poloquin, Waterbury, and others. It's not unheard of.


Yeah, I've read some of Poloquin's thoughts on the matter. I just tend to be a bit reserved about such things until I actually see some data on the subject -- But yeah, I know Poloquin says mega-doses are useful for body recomposition purposes.

I also suspect PUFA/Omega 3s might need to scale with other fats in my case to offset inflammation from other fats (omega 6 or saturateds) on a high fat diet. But that's just my suspicion. I could be totally off base.

I don't think you are totally off base -- I too have read that the wacky ratios in American diets are what causes many of our problems.....

I don't think you are totally off base -- I too have read that the wacky ratios in American diets are what causes many of our problems.....

I've actually backed down on my fish oil supplementation as I've found a reasonably priced source of grass fed beef and bison at Super Target recently. Supposedly grass fed red meat like this has more omega 3s than even salmon (although not the EPA/DHA I'm sure). So that will hopefully counter high MUFA and saturateds, too.

Given the dose-dependent association of alpha linoleic acid with prostate cancer, you might also want to reconsider mega-dosing on flax oil. Better to skip the oil and just eat the seeds.
Mega-dosing fats is a short-term solution. I'll be dropping the doses back to normal within 2-4 weeks of starting to train again (which will hopefully start again this week). This methodology was recommended as an accelerative healing-aid for post-surgical recovery, not as any sort of long-term dietary addition. It will also prove an interesting dietary deviation from my usual macros/nutritional approach as I begin to train again, and I'll be interested to see how my body responds after two months of sitting on my ass.

-R

Mega-dosing fats is a short-term solution. I'll be dropping the doses back to normal within 2-4 weeks of starting to train again (which will hopefully start again this week). This methodology was recommended as an accelerative healing-aid for post-surgical recovery, not as any sort of long-term dietary addition. It will also prove an interesting dietary deviation from my usual macros/nutritional approach as I begin to train again, and I'll be interested to see how my body responds after two months of sitting on my ass.

-R

Canola oil might also be considered, as it is a good source of Omega 3s as well as MUFAs. Plus, it mixes well in a shake because it has almost no flavor :) And I think you avoid the lignans (phytoestrogens) in the flax.

Don't get me wrong, I use flax, too. I just try not too use a lot.

For supplements, I can only cite what experiences I have been through, instead of relying on studies, which can be flawed in many respects. (I do try and read them all though, and find merit with them too) Pubmed is a very good place to visit :nod:

I"ve read the literature concerning fish oil and the immune system, but since I have been taking fish oil in earnest, my immune system has strengthened. I am also recovered from two serious illnesses during that time.

I agree with Joeshmoe on the flax oil. I don't take it, and don't recommend it for the guys.

Fish oil is a supplement I cycle depending on the current state of affairs. For general joint discomfort I bump it up to 15-20gr per day until I start feeling pain free. Then I taper down. For general health I use 3-5gr per day. Sometimes, if my fat intake is sufficient enough, I take a couple of weeks off completely from fish oil. For contest prep, I've used upwards of 25gr per day, and when combined with green tea extracts, fat loss accelerates at a rapid pace. Later this year for my shows, I will be experimenting with 30-35gr per day for 2-3 week bursts.

For the winter months I'll take 8-12gr a day with periods of lower dosages (currently I'm on 5gr a day) seeded into these months.

Btw, Bluestreak I am glad to see you are doing well bro. :tucool:

http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?t=40962

For reference.

Um. I did three weeks of mega-dosing to test the effects of fish-oil on insulin sensitivity. And while I observed no noticeable change in my insulin sensitivity (Measured on a finger-prick device) @ 40g's a day for three weeks, I did notice a major reduction in the soreness from intense workouts. It probably would have been possible to do back squats every other day at a working weight, but then again, i'm 22 as well:D.

That said, I did get the flu two weeks ago:blank:.

If you decide to experiment, maybe you'd consider making a journal of it?