Why are squats the number 1 mass builder and not deadlifts? I always read that squats use almost the entire muscular system, but where is the upper body being worked? Deadlifts appear to work more of the entire body than squats do. Do squats provide more of a hormone and growth boost over deadlifts? Is that where the advantage lies?

Just looking at a number of mass and strength bulding programs that center around the squat and then throw in a set of deadlifts. I'm thinking specifically of programs by Rippetoe and StrongLifts 5x5.

Just curious what the science is behind this.


http://stronglifts.com/stronglifts-5x5-beginner-strength-training-program/

Key to this program is the Squat exercise which works your whole body. You’ll Squat 3x/week, adding 2.5kg/5lbs each time. The stronger you get on the Squat, the more muscles you’ll have & the more fat you’ll burn.

This is an old way of building strength popularized by Bill Starr in 1976. Several variations have been released since: Starting Strength, Madcow & this one. All use the same approach: sets of 5 reps with 3 Squat sessions per week.

Rippetoe was asked your first question just a little bit ago: http://strengthmill.net/forum/showthread.php?t=755

As far as the set/rep scheme goes, in The Strongest Shall Survive by Bill Star he wrote something alone the lines of most studies done showed 4-6 reps with 4-6 sets built strength the best so he picked the mid value for both.

I doubt your going to find 'research science' behind it, but you'll find a lot of practical science/experience with those who use it (Starr, Rippetoe, etc...)

Here is a direct quote from J.V. Askem, "The 5X5 training approach has been around for decades and has proven to be effective for many types of strength athletes. Originally popularized by bodybuilding legend Reg Park in the 1950's, I've found that the 5X5 can also be effective when used on compound assistance exercises for Olympic lifters. It's also effective for short cycles, 3 to 5 weeks, for Power lifting movements."

http://jva.ontariostrongman.ca/5X5.htm

Why are squats the number 1 mass builder and not deadlifts? I always read that squats use almost the entire muscular system, but where is the upper body being worked? Deadlifts appear to work more of the entire body than squats do. Do squats provide more of a hormone and growth boost over deadlifts? Is that where the advantage lies?

Just looking at a number of mass and strength bulding programs that center around the squat and then throw in a set of deadlifts. I'm thinking specifically of programs by Rippetoe and StrongLifts 5x5.

Just curious what the science is behind this.


http://stronglifts.com/stronglifts-5x5-beginner-strength-training-program/

Key to this program is the Squat exercise which works your whole body. You’ll Squat 3x/week, adding 2.5kg/5lbs each time. The stronger you get on the Squat, the more muscles you’ll have & the more fat you’ll burn.

This is an old way of building strength popularized by Bill Starr in 1976. Several variations have been released since: Starting Strength, Madcow & this one. All use the same approach: sets of 5 reps with 3 Squat sessions per week.

Try a set of 20 "breathing squats" (http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?t=38521&highlight=breathing+squats) and you will see how your back feels :evil:

I noticed quite a difference in my back strength and size after doing few weeks of breathing squats.

Why are squats the number 1 mass builder and not deadlifts?

I think squats hit a bit more leg for the same weight. It's not like night and day though.

Why not be sensible and get busy with both? Who says you can't have it all?

Rippetoe was asked your first question just a little bit ago: http://strengthmill.net/forum/showthread.php?t=755

Actually Louie Simmons has a quip that adds perspective; about the deadlift he said "why do an exercise that doesn't give back more than it takes?"

But if you take Simmons' view then it also complicates Rippetoe's. Because Simmons is a fan of partial movements (and quite successful at it) it calls into question Rippetoe's favorable view of "full range of motion".

The reality is quite simple for the individual trainee though. By the time you pack on a bunch of muscle, you will have learned your own personal view of both squats and deads.

i guess theres more leverage and larger movement in squats compared to something like Sl deads, i always implement both in my workouts, i find squats are harder on the knees compared to deadlifts too.

i would agree deads work more of the body than squats only because for some reason, deads seem to build up my forearms nicely.

Try a set of 20 "breathing squats" (http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?t=38521&highlight=breathing+squats) and you will see how your back feels :evil:

Breathing squats are wonderful. They were a life changing experience for me. But despite commonly held prejudices, I like endurance deadlifting just about as much as endurance squatting.

for some reason, deads seem to build up my forearms nicely.

Just a wild guess: Could that reason be that when you do your deads you happen to be gripping a heavy barbell in your hands?

Just a wild guess: Could that reason be that when you do your deads you happen to be gripping a heavy barbell in your hands?:confused: yeh, i guess so, hmmmmmmmm.

thats looking more like a wild fact the more a think of it

I have wondered this myself. I really appreciate the fact that Rippletoe was willing to say he didn't know. That shows some maturity and an ego under control.

I'd always chocked it up to the larger ROM and emphasized eccentric (as compared to the deadlift). Looking at what Rippetoe says on that link, he adds a stretch reflex and having the bar sit on the back, instead of down in the hands, which both sound good to me too.

Rippetoe was asked your first question just a little bit ago: http://strengthmill.net/forum/showthread.php?t=755

Wow, that really is exactly my same question. If Rippetoe says that it is what it is, it just works, and just do it, then that's fine with me.

i personally love being able to rep out 6+ plates with deadlifts.

i can't do that with squats (yet) with the ROM that i practice.

so, while i love them both, deadlifts make me look like more of a badass.

which, as you know, is #1 importance in the college gym. hahaha.

Just because the Gurus say it, doesn't make it so. They say alot of stuff that turns out later to be questionable. In my experience, deads are the better mass builders....but, I don't think anybody can ever say which one is "truly better". Do both, and you'll have your bases covered.

i personally love being able to rep out 6+ plates with deadlifts.

What the.....You are repping out 585 at a bodyweight of ~170? :eek:

What the.....You are repping out 585 at a bodyweight of ~170? :eek:

Not to put too much of a damper on it, he means three on a side and then some.

Not to put too much of a damper on it, he means three on a side and then some.

I gotcha....I guess I'm just used to references to the number of plates being for one side only. My bad. :doh:

I gotcha....I guess I'm just used to references to the number of plates being for one side only. My bad. :doh:

No, you are using the common convention.

Why are squats the number 1 mass builder and not deadlifts?

I had this exact discussion with my trainer...
I asked why the squat was called the king of the lifts. (Discussion followed about how I thought deadlifts were the real king, blah, blah, blah)

To me, deadlifts are king and squats are the eldest prince...with power cleans being the second eldest prince....

http://strengthmill.net/forum/showthread.php?t=755

Coach Rippetoe:

I have both editions of Starting Strength and intend to buy PP as soon as I stop making gains with the SS program.

I’m curious about why squats in particular are so effective at building mass & strength in novices. I had assumed that any really heavy lift would have an effect similar to squats – especially deadlifts, which have a similar range of motion (at least in terms of bar travel) and typically use even more weight than squats. Yet you recently made a post suggesting that subbing deads for squats would appreciably lower mass gains. And of course there is the fact that your extremely successful SS program includes 6 squats for every deadlift.

Please understand that I’m not challenging your observations about squats; I’m just curious as to the hows & whys of their unique efficacy.

Mark Rippetoe:

I'm not sure I can provide a deeply satisfying answer to this, because I really don't know. It's come up often, and it's obviously one of these deals that ex.phys. types don't deal with. I THINK that it has to do with the fact that the stretch reflex aspect of the movement and the long range of motion causes so much stress on so much tissue, and this coupled with the fact that the bar is sitting on you so that your entire frame is loaded for the whole set produces a stress event that results in a system-wide hormonal response. The deadlift doesn't do this same type of loading, because it starts in the concentric position, doesn't use the full range of motion, and if it's trained using multiple sets it gets so damn hard that it beats you up enough that you don't recover. The squat is harder in more friendly ways, so to speak, and can be trained hard but recovered from more easily.

But really, I don't know.

I am not sure it makes much difference to the majority of people here. Everyone that is trying to have the mass of a recent Mr. Olympia raise your hands. I can't see any hands from here. what about Brad Pitt? I think I see a bunch in the back that raised their hand. Well lets don't throw out any more examples. Simple question Is there anyone who wants exceptional mass, big muscles? Not many.

Squats or Deadlifts, why not do both. As for mass that the majority seek - you really don't have to do either. I seen many who have exceptional legs that never did them and if they did, it wasn't extremely heavy weights.

There are a lot of people who don't want 26" thighs or want to squat 400 lbs. The majority of the people coming to these forums are over weight or underweight for their height and they want to correct that.


Having said all that: As a teen, three supersets of breathing squats and BB pullovers 3 times a week did me a lot of good in building ribcage and leg size but I did it with less than 140lbs because There were no gyms anywhere in my state and I was a rare kid to have weights. There were none in schools. We produced many future pro football players that never saw them in HS or college.