I have never been ripped and satisfied with my bf%, but this is the closest I have ever been. What would you estimate my bf% at?

Given my minuscule musclemass, is it possible to get good looking abs and how much more do you think I would have to scale off in that case? Do you think it would be psychologically worth the effort for me to once have been content with my bodyfat before bulking, or should I start to try adding mass right now and then scale off the fat?

Also, how do you transition from cut to bulk? (while minimizing fat gain)
I am 23 years old, 5'9" at 136 lb and have been cutting at 1800 kcals with macros at 40/40/20 (P/C/F). Have done Waterbury's Total Body Training (3 fullbody w.o/week) during the past 2 months along with 45-60 min of cardio on off days. Could someone please advice on a transition diet and a sound kcal increase? macros and kcal appropriate for me while bulking? I should gradually increase kcal right?

Please help me because I'm really, really unsure of how to do this and have a mental aversion of eating more since I have been really fat and my self esteem is very low. Just telling me to eat like a pig won't work... that could bring back some ill disorders of mine... actually I'm scared shit of eating more. Please give me sound advice and motivation to get me through this. This mental game is tough...

In case of bulk I need to know how fast and how many calories I should add and what macros and calories to shoot for. I'm definately going for a clean bulk and thinking of 30/50/20% - 30/40/30% (P/C/F) in that case. What do you recommend? approximately how many calories? Got PWO figured out, but what about bed time? Anyone cutting out starchy carbs and taking more fat there? Any purpose of tapering carbs during day? What about diet on off/cardio days? What about cardio?

I am now trying a 4 day/week push/pull split. Any training advice if I decide to bulk? less cardio I guess, but I am very afraid of getting fat again. Help...

Thx in advance!

Your body fat is low but those poses make it difficult to determine - i would suggest take some pics, with arms simply hanging at side, some where you're tensed, some where you're completely untensed - and then post these up on the thread.


Also post up your age, weight and height.

Ok I have added 3 more photos, dunno if they are any better though. Also added some basic data about me.

Ok I have added 3 more photos, dunno if they are any better though. Also added some basic data about me.


Mate you're already "ripped", very good job, your bodyfat is very low, possibly as low as 7 or 8 percent, I'm guessing you must be beneath 10 percent. Okay your muscle mass isn't exactly through the roof but I wouldn't worry about that at all, there's plenty of time to add muscle and you're now in absolutely ideal shape to start a slow clean bulk.


I don't think more cutting will do any more for your physique. Time to formulate a bulk plan methinks - slow, clean bulk with no/miminal junk food so you can add muscle with minmal fat addition so you can stay lean. May be best to stick with the cardio 2 or 3 days a week for cv fitness if nothing else. plus will maintain your goal of staying lean.

Might also be a wee idea to simply eat at maintenance for a coupla months before going onto a slow clean bulk, if you're worried about fat gain.

Given my minuscule musclemass, is it possible to get good looking abs and how much more do you think I would have to scale off in that case? Do you think it would be psychologically worth the effort for me to once have been content with my bodyfat before bulking, or should I start to try adding mass right now and then scale off the fat?

No. You are already very lean, but like you point out, you don't have much muscle. As Dave Tate says, "You can't flex bone." And like mastover here says, "You have to pack on the beef before you carve the steak."

You will never be content with your bodyfat without more muscle, because you can't see deep carved abs that you seem to want if you don't have the muscle there in the first place. So psychologically, it will probably be more detrimental to keep going down this path than to start a clean, slow bulk.

Also, how do you transition from cut to bulk? (while minimizing fat gain)
I am 23 years old, 5'9" at 136 lb and have been cutting at 1800 kcals with macros at 40/40/20 (P/C/F). Have done Waterbury's Total Body Training (3 fullbody w.o/week) during the past 2 months along with 45-60 min of cardio on off days. Could someone please advice on a transition diet and a sound kcal increase? macros and kcal appropriate for me while bulking? I should gradually increase kcal right?

Exactly. That's a great lifting plan to start. If you enjoy that, do another 8 week cycle of it or move on to Waterbury Method or Art of Waterbury. Or even some of his later stuff from his "maximum recruitment" articles. Or look at Rippetoe's Starting Strength or DeFranco's Westside for Skinny Bastards if you want a bit of change in style.

Please help me because I'm really, really unsure of how to do this and have a mental aversion of eating more since I have been really fat and my self esteem is very low. Just telling me to eat like a pig won't work... that could bring back some ill disorders of mine...

You don't need to eat like a pig. Eat clean, just more. Gradually. Lift heavy like you are doing. You might add some fat even on a controlled bulk, but you can even had fat and hold the percentage the same or less if you add mass at least as fast. Plus, you've proven to yourself you can shed the fat if you have to, so if you screw up, do a brief cut and get back at it again.

I am now trying a 4 day/week push/pull split. Any training advice if I decide to bulk? less cardio I guess, but I am very afraid of fat gain. Help...

That's fine, too. But yeah, I'd probably reduce my cardio. Maybe a brief HIIT session 1-2x a week.

Good work leaning out. Now add some quality muscle with just as much determination!

Also, how do you transition from cut to bulk? (while minimizing fat gain)
I am 23 years old, 5'9" at 136 lb and have been cutting at 1800 kcals with macros at 40/40/20 (P/C/F). Have done Waterbury's Total Body Training (3 fullbody w.o/week) during the past 2 months along with 45-60 min of cardio on off days. Could someone please advice on a transition diet and a sound kcal increase? macros and kcal appropriate for me while bulking? I should gradually increase kcal right?

Add in 250 cals/day of the same healthy food you're eating now. See where you are in a week - you'll probably want to add in another 250 cals. And then again in a few weeks. Start to cut cardio. Maybe 2 sessions per week at 25-30 minutes.

You can probably add a *bit* of volume as you add in more calories, but don't go overboard. If you're on a Waterbury program or something similar, ignore this and simply stick to the program.

EDIT: Actually, if you're not having any nutrition centered around your workout period (like a PWO shake) that would be a fantastic place to add calories. I don't know if BCAAs or Surge are in the budget, but there are cheaper options available. Search around for PWO, whey and maltodextrin. Whey is whey, and adding maltodextrin to it can be done for very cheap.

Why worry about putting on fat? Now you know for sure you can get rid of it, so pack on the muscle with hard work and caloric excess for a while, then get rid of all the fat again and you will be MUCH happier with your physique.

Thx everyone! Very much appreciated...

What about my actual kcal-levels? The last two weeks I have been lowballing at 1600 kcal... so should I start at like 1800-1900 to avoid fat gain and then reasess every or every other week as you said Caruthias?

Eg.
Week 1: 1900
Week 2: Reassess, maybe add +200-250
Week 4: Reassess, maybe add +200-250
....

Is this correct or should/could I start higher?

How much weight will I add due to glycogen and water initially and how much gain should I aim for every week/month? 1 lb/month? more/less?

Where do you think I will approximately end up with calories? (say with 3 hours of intense lifting and 2 hours of moderate cardio every week (or less+some HIIT). The rest of my time is spent at university with not much activity (lectures and reading).

Any mental tips that can help me with my fears of eating and gaining fat? Experiences and tips?

Also what do you recommend in terms of longterm planning? Would it be worth it to get in really good shape this summer or should I wait until next? (with maybe some shorther cutting phase during fall/winter). I doubt I will get that much beefier for this summer so another cut would then probably be counterproductive?

Btw, I'm serious with my PWO and got that part really well figured out.

Again many thanks! :bb:

Thx everyone! Very much appreciated...

What about my actual kcal-levels? The last two weeks I have been lowballing at 1600 kcal... so should I start at like 1800-1900 to avoid fat gain and then reasess every or every other week as you said Caruthias?

Eg.
Week 1: 1900
Week 2: Reassess, maybe add +200-250
Week 4: Reassess, maybe add +200-250
....

Is this correct or should/could I start higher?

It sounds like a plan, but I'd take out the "reassess" stuff at week 2. You really need to get the calories back up if you are only eating 1600. That is very low for a guy. IMO, you need to be worked up to 2200-2500 before you even think about not upping calories every couple of weeks. So do it gradually, but don't second guess yourself even if you add a bit of fat, it's nearly inevitable. You just need to keep it in control.

How much weight will I add due to glycogen and water initially and how much gain should I aim for every week/month? 1 lb/month? more/less?

Depends on how you've been eating. I can easily gain 6-7 lbs after a day long carb load but that will trickle down during the week (I eat low carb most days with big carb spikes...the Anabolic Diet). But if you are spreading things out and eat similar to how you are now, just more, you won't see that big of a jump.

I think you probably need to stay off the scale if it bothers you so much, though. Maybe weigh weekly or every other week when you evaluate progress. You sound like you are really going to have trouble letting go of the cutting psychosis :D

Where do you think I will approximately end up with calories? (say with 3 hours of intense lifting and 2 hours of moderate cardio every week (or less+some HIIT). The rest of my time is spent at university with not much activity (lectures and reading).

We're all different, but I suspect you've greatly lowered your metabolism eating very low calories for awhile, and it may take time to ramp it back up to normal levels. So just go slow and monitor your own results.

Any mental tips that can help me with my fears of eating and gaining fat? Experiences and tips?

Don't fixate on the scale, and keep in mind that even if you add fat, you've already learned how to remove it. So be confident.

Also what do you recommend in terms of longterm planning? Would it be worth it to get in really good shape this summer or should I wait until next? (with maybe some shorther cutting phase during fall/winter). I doubt I will get that much beefier for this summer so another cut would then probably be counterproductive?

I think you shouldn't have to worry about it if you add calories slowly and don't go trying to add 10lbs of muscle all at once. Gradual approaches while keeping fat in check (but knowing you may pick up a bit) will keep you looking fine, and if you need some brief 2 week cuts thrown in every month or two, that's fine, too.

I have never been ripped and satisfied with my bf%, but this is the closest I have ever been. What would you estimate my bf% at?

I don't know and I don't care. I think you want to bulk now. Don't be afraid of cardio or not - it's more or less a side issue. Get your Calories up with whatever you think is a good diet and make with the lifting.

Thanks ppl! Much appreciated...

Since yesterday I have started eating 2000 kcal at P30/C50/F20 as a starting baseline diet. I feel a slight bit better; not freezing as much and a maybe a tad little less stiff and lethargic. Took an official start weight today and got scared since im down like 9 pounds in the last 2 weeks, almost 2 pounds last 2 days. Official start weight is a hefty 132 lb... :cry:

I will stay off the scale for at least a week now, but i suspect I will lose weight even faster this coming week as I can feel my metabolism is ramping up. During my cut I have eaten completely clean without a single treat or higher calorie day for the past 3 months so maybe it's not that strange that my body responds.

Also had an extensive blood work done today, will get the results next week. I suspect my testosterone to be low along with some deficiencies. My blood pressure was 100/60 which isn't good... well I guess that from here on things can only get better!

Any more tips? Should I add more calories? Im really motivated in adding mass now. Anybody got experience from TBT (the program I have used), Waterbury Method and Art of Waterbury? What would you recommend me to go for? Any other good programs you recommend? (Yes, I know I have gotten some input on this, but I was thinking if any program is experienced as "better" for this purpose). Maybe 4 days a week would be better for me since I will have less time for cardio then (I have to train every day, mental disorder, really trying to break it).

Again... much thanks!

Thanks ppl! Much appreciated...

Since yesterday I have started eating 2000 kcal at P30/C50/F20 as a starting baseline diet. I feel a slight bit better; not freezing as much and a maybe a tad little less stiff and lethargic. Took an official start weight today and got scared since im down like 9 pounds in the last 2 weeks, almost 2 pounds last 2 days. Official start weight is a hefty 132 lb... :cry:

I will stay off the scale for at least a week now, but i suspect I will lose weight even faster this coming week as I can feel my metabolism is ramping up. During my cut I have eaten completely clean without a single treat or higher calorie day for the past 3 months so maybe it's not that strange that my body responds.

Also had an extensive blood work done today, will get the results next week. I suspect my testosterone to be low along with some deficiencies. My blood pressure was 100/60 which isn't good... well I guess that from here on things can only get better!

Any more tips? Should I add more calories? Im really motivated in adding mass now. Anybody got experience from TBT (the program I have used), Waterbury Method and Art of Waterbury? What would you recommend me to go for? Any other good programs you recommend? (Yes, I know I have gotten some input on this, but I was thinking if any program is experienced as "better" for this purpose). Maybe 4 days a week would be better for me since I will have less time for cardio then (I have to train every day, mental disorder, really trying to break it).

Again... much thanks!

I would suggest you increase your calories. I do not know anyone who has built muscle on a 2000 cal diet. But do this gradually. Add several hundred calories a week, until you are gaining about a pound a week.
I also think you will probably gain some fat right from the get-go, as your metabolism has no doubt ground to a halt from eating so little.

Training wise, any intelligent program with lots of compound lifts will work. Westside For Skinny Bastards by Joe DeFranco was mentioned here and it is very good. The Waterbury programs can work well too. Whatever you choose, make it a priority to add weight to the bar/more reps whenever you can. Building muscle is a process of lifting progressively heavier weights while eating progressively more food. Do this and you will grow.

EDIT: Also, if you plan on making any considerable progress in muscle size, I recommend you forget about cutting for a while. Remove it from your vocabulary for the moment. Just really put some effort into building some muscle mass for the next 3 years. I think more people who want to have muscular physiques should stop worrying about 'getting fat' and put some dedication into eating and lifting. You will make more progress this way than if you 'bulk' for six months, then panic the weight off because you are scared of what the girls will think at the beach. I am not saying this is you, but a lot of people with a low body fat have a tendency to be over-paranoid about fat gain to the point that they hurt their progress. If you eat clean food and work your ass off in the gym CONSISTENTLY you will not become fat bastard.

I would suggest you increase your calories. I do not know anyone who has built muscle on a 2000 cal diet. But do this gradually. Add several hundred calories a week, until you are gaining about a pound a week.
I also think you will probably gain some fat right from the get-go, as your metabolism has no doubt ground to a halt from eating so little.

Training wise, any intelligent program with lots of compound lifts will work. Westside For Skinny Bastards by Joe DeFranco was mentioned here and it is very good. The Waterbury programs can work well too. Whatever you choose, make it a priority to add weight to the bar/more reps whenever you can. Building muscle is a process of lifting progressively heavier weights while eating progressively more food. Do this and you will grow.

EDIT: Also, if you plan on making any considerable progress in muscle size, I recommend you forget about cutting for a while. Remove it from your vocabulary for the moment. Just really put some effort into building some muscle mass for the next 3 years. I think more people who want to have muscular physiques should stop worrying about 'getting fat' and put some dedication into eating and lifting. You will make more progress this way than if you 'bulk' for six months, then panic the weight off because you are scared of what the girls will think at the beach. I am not saying this is you, but a lot of people with a low body fat have a tendency to be over-paranoid about fat gain to the point that they hurt their progress. If you eat clean food and work your ass off in the gym CONSISTENTLY you will not become fat bastard.

Thanks!

Here is an update on my progress:

Weight is up from 132 to 140 lb in the past 3 weeks. But since I was pretty carb and waterdepleted when starting, and considering that I just did a 5 day creatine load (20 g/day) I don't see this as anything wrong. The upcoming weeks will be more appropriate to determine if and how much I am gaining. Chest is up 2", arms 1/2-1", waist 1" and legs about 1".

I now do Rippetoes Starting strength 3x weekly, hitting it as heavy as I can. Along with that I have started working with a trainer who teaches me the olympic lifting. The OL-sessions uses kinda light weight still, but they are still taxing and feels very productive! So I am totalling like 5-6 gym hours/week and have therefore upped my calories to 3000-3200/day (clean diet) to support training and growth (got some daily activties as well... biking for 30-45 min and such). The next few weeks will hopefully tell me if I am overeating or not, and I will have to take it from there.

The hard part is to not second guess myself when I sometimes feel a little bit bloated and some definition is lost (like this morning). I know that creatine can cause this, and I have to put things in a bigger perspective. Right now focus should be strength and mass gain, but still not go overboard and just pack on the fat. Like you said I should plan for years ahead, not for this summer.

Sorry for the long post. Hopefully someone is interested! Suggestions, tips, motivation and experiences are more than welcome.

Oh, and here is some pictures from yesterday. They are taken in a totally different angle and lightning than the "before" pictures, so they aren't really comparable.

I think you have the potential to go far. You are incredibly ripped, which is a huge bonus when it comes to putting on muscle.

Just remember to take it slow and not rush anything... THAT is what leads people to put on too much fat.

You have the right attitude though. Good luck!

I think you have the potential to go far. You are incredibly ripped, which is a huge bonus when it comes to putting on muscle.

Just remember to take it slow and not rush anything... THAT is what leads people to put on too much fat.

You have the right attitude though. Good luck!

Thanks man!

I'll be back with an update in a couple of weeks.

But more tips are always welcome!

Thanks