I re-read Schteevie'es bulking sticky.

"It's near impossible to build muscle and lose fat at the same time - so don't try to."

I feel bigger and def. lost fat. Does it make sense trying Max-OT on a fat loss calorie deficit diet? Am I shooting myself in the foot here? I feel like the answer is, it's all about preserving muscle as much as building it and they can be done at the same time. Albeit, not as effectively. Just not sure.

Edit: I think I found my answer from odin1642 "keep cutting and keep hitting the weights hard, that's the main thing."
jkugelman, "If you're just starting out you can put on muscle AND lose fat at the same time. Eat more so that your calorie deficit comes from exercise, not from starving yourself. :nono: ...If you eat too little you won't gain any muscle..."


I've been avidly reading the last 3 weeks. Many thx to all the experienced people posting on these boards, you know who you are. You not only inspire people to get healthy, you truly change peoples lives.

Age: 38
BFat 24%
Weight: 198 lbs.
Height: 5' 10"
Waist 42" /cry

My target is to get down to 185 lbs. for now and add as much muscle as I can by April.

I've always been chubby, if not fat. This Xmas I balooned to 210 lbs. I also completed my family. A son and very recent daughter was born. Everything changed and I have an entire new outlook on life. This is our motivation (http://mychrispics.com/20080114kitkat/index.html). I'd love to see her grow up.

Like a complete tard, I smoke :madpimp: 1/2 pack a day. But I figure if I try to diet, workout and quit smoking all at once i'm destined to fail. As it is i've already had a couple cheat days in 2 weeks. I'll tackle that habit once I achieve a reasonable BFat %.

1st week: Started eating 5x400 calorie meals, learning lots from GravityHomer's guide. Bought my starter bench, simple plastic weights. Took it easy, worked out 3 days and got used to new lifts. A little sore, a little weak.

Dropped around 5 pounds. Figure mostly water.

Diet: Target calories around 2,000 - 2,400 per day, 40-40-20, but I just try to get as much protien as carbs so I think the fat falls in line. I was eaily eating twice that before. I'm lucky enough to have a cook and here's a sample of what they prepare. I do keep a log. Cut back to 1 hour of World of Warcraft a week ;)

Water 1 gallon+
Meal 1 - 1 egg scrambled no oil, 1 cup coffee, gotta have the creamer/equal
Meal 2 - 2 pieces Chicken no skin, green beans and cabbage 1/2 cup cooked white rice
Meal 3 - Fish w/ 1/2 cup white rice and veges, trying to make switch to brown rice.
Meal 4 - 1/2 cup brown rice, half bbq steak or rice with beef stew/veges.
Meal 5 - Oatmeal or some kind of protien, no carbs.

PWorkout 8 oz. Whey Shake 1/2 water 1/2 nonfat milk. Brown rice will take some getting used to, woke up with horrible stomach ache last night. 2 tums and ate an egg seemed to relieve it.

2nd week: Tweaked my workout routine, outlined below. I've read Max-OT several times. I was seriously sore after an intense leg workout Fri. Extremely tired. Started Whey protien that night PW, feel a little better today Sunday. Dropped anohter 5 lbs., that's 10 total since I started.

Foreshadow week 3: I'm not going to workout if my target muscle is still sore. When it feels good i'm going balls out on my teeny bench or gym at office. Guesswork here, listening to my body.

5 warmup sets per muscle group, following Max-OT concepts. Limited here cause of bench. Have cardio bike and stepper I hope to work into routine more later but i'm freaking lazy and tired I don't wanna burn out.

Monday Chest/Triceps
Fly Press 3 sets
Flat Bench Press 3 sets
Incline Bench Press 2 sets
Tricep Press 3 sets
Weighted Bench Dips 3 sets

Tuesday Biceps/Back/Forearms
Standing Barbell Curls 3 sets
Preacher Curls 3 sets
Barbell Wrist Curls 2 sets
Bent over barbell Row 2 sets
Deadlift 2 Sets

Wednesday cardio, tennis, racquetball

Thursday Shoulders/Traps
Seated Military Press 3 sets
DB Lateral Raises 3 sets
Barbell Shrugs 3 sets

Friday Legs
Prone Leg Curl 3 sets
Leg Extensions 2 sets
Barbell Squats 3 sets
Leg Presses 2 sets
Calve Raises 2 sets

Saturday - off Diving, maybe wave runners
Sunday – off

I had a herniated disc, L5/S1 operation and bulge removed. The surgeon commented I had a huge layer of back muscle, I guess it didn't help prevent it tho. Thus, i'm gonna go easy on the dead lifts and squats for now.

My g/f is basically learning from me and following my lead but as a much easier pace. She'll go all out weights in Feb. once the babies 3 months old.

Thx for reading :) Any suggestions, routine/diet flaws apparent here?

Ez
Philippines

Welcome to the forum, and congrats on the recent birth!

Meal 1 : 1 egg and a coffee? Try and eat more - breakfast is probably the most important meal of them all. Maybe have some oatmeal and scramble more egg whites. Its important to get a bit of protein with each meal (and egg-whites/egg-beaters are ideal for breakfast), and oatmeal is a perfect breakfast carb.

Meals 2 - 4 : Try not to have rice with all of these meals, especially white rice. Vegetables are great, but also having rice with each meal is probably overdoing the carbs.

Meal 5 : "Oatmeal or some kind of protien, no carbs." - Oatmeal is carbs. Depending on how late you eat this meal or when you workout, its probably best not to eat carbs as your last meal of the day.

You also don't seem to have many healthy fats in this diet. Do you snack on anything between meals? A handful of almonds or even just dribbling a little bit of olive-oil over some of your vegetables will give you a bit more.

Have you used something like FitDay or calorie-count.com to work out exactly what you are eating? Its hard to tell without knowing portion sizes, but it doesn't look like you are getting as many calories as you think you are, or a breakdown close to 40/40/20. I might be wrong, but its worth looking into recording what you measure using something like Fitday so you know exactly how your diet breaks down.

"Thus, i'm gonna go easy on the dead lifts and squats for now." : If you are medically cleared to do squats and deadlifts, and your back injury no longer causes any pain or problems - I'd focus on squats and deads more, rather than leave them out. Compound movements will do more to help burn fat than isolation movements.

Thanks euan, great advice on fitday, i'm creating an account now and going to start tracking calories better.

After decades of never eating breakfast, 1 egg at least gets my metabolism going, and I take a Centrum. I'll see where i'm at calorie wise and debate adding more. Did I mention I have a 42" waist, sigh. 3 nothches off my belt so far tho.

Almonds and olive oil sound yummy i'll add it to the shopping list.

It's hard being 1/2 Asian and not eating rice, i've definitely cut the amounts big time and switched to brown.

Fitday kicks ass, best part is seeing protien/carb/fat breakdown!

I re-read Schteevie'es bulking sticky.

"It's near impossible to build muscle and lose fat at the same time - so don't try to."

I feel bigger and def. lost fat. Does it make sense trying Max-OT on a fat loss calorie deficit diet? Am I shooting myself in the foot here? I feel like the answer is, it's all about preserving muscle as much as building it and they can be done at the same time. Albeit, not as effectively. Just not sure.

I really think you should quit smoking first. That was one of my first steps to getting in shape (at my worst I smoked a pack a day). Cut back by one cigarette a day, so you stop completely in 10 days (this means tracking each one you smoke somehow). You might be grouchy for a week, but if you have the willpower to maintain the diet you described, you should be able to quit by cutting back.

Your lungs can still recover almost completely from smoking. Quitting will make reaching your goal weight easier because your ability to breathe better will be a significant aid to your exercise routines.

We made an attempt to quit cold turkey just before my daughter was born in Nov. Lasted 7 days. If you've ever had a child you understand the stress leading up to that day. Failure, I lit up.

There's definitely a wrong and right time to quit and I often read it takes several tries before you actually do it. Sound advice and I have no doubt i'll get there... sooner than later. Thx Dqueso.

bump for my question on max-OT and cutting fat at same time. Searching forum for answers. Feeling hungry and about to go heavy and intense today. Does it make sense trying Max-OT on a fat loss calorie deficit diet?

I re-read Schteevie'es bulking sticky.

"It's near impossible to build muscle and lose fat at the same time - so don't try to."

I feel bigger and def. lost fat. Does it make sense trying Max-OT on a fat loss calorie deficit diet? Am I shooting myself in the foot here? I feel like the answer is, it's all about preserving muscle as much as building it and they can be done at the same time. Albeit, not as effectively. Just not sure.


As a beginner with weights, you are in kinda a magic zone where you can add muscle while dropping fat. As you go along, it gets to be harder and harder to do, but never totally impossible unless you are at ultra low body fat.

Max-OT is fine. Any sensible weight plan that keeps things balanced at this point is good. There might be arguably better options for beginners trying to cut, but Max-OT has worked for others and can work for you I'm sure.

Your diet can definitely use some work, but I think you realize that. Some of this can be a process to get through, as not everybody can just up and change their whole diet overnight.

That being said, I would start reducing rice (whether white or brown), and you need to start adding in healthy fats in place of the carbs for some of those meals. Stuff like nuts, nut butters, olive oil, fish oil and fatty fish, lean beef, more eggs, avacados, etc.

Fats are part of a balanced diet, and are very healthy for you if you eat the right kinds. Don't fall into the myth that you should avoid dietary fat if you are trying to lose body fat. You need some.

Just watch portions, as fat is very dense calorically, and it is easy to blow your calorie limits if you cheat on portion sizes.

Yep fitday shows way too much fat and carbs, not enough protien. I 100% feel that "magic zone" and i'm definitely going to take advantage of it, even if it means slower fat loss.

Yep fitday shows way too much fat and carbs, not enough protien. I 100% feel that "magic zone" and i'm definitely going to take advantage of it, even if it means slower fat loss.

:confused: I don't see enough fat in your posted diet above. Have you added some?

I re-read Schteevie'es bulking sticky.

"It's near impossible to build muscle and lose fat at the same time - so don't try to."

I feel bigger and def. lost fat. Does it make sense trying Max-OT on a fat loss calorie deficit diet? Am I shooting myself in the foot here?

But I figure if I try to diet, workout and quit smoking all at once i'm destined to fail. As it is i've already had a couple cheat days in 2 weeks. I'll tackle that habit once I achieve a reasonable BFat %.

A: That hard to build muscle and lose fat only really applies to lean people. If you lose enough fat to start getting lean, then it kicks in. But if you have enough body fat, don't worry about it.

B: You should quit smoking as your first priority. Smoking is far more injurious to your health than your fat. And it will be harder to quit if you cut first. So don't do what you propose. The best thing is to quit smoking AND exercise hard FIRST. Quitting will be easier if you do both.

:confused: I don't see enough fat in your posted diet above. Have you added some?

It varies quite a bit, that was just a vague sample. Using fitday helps give me a clearer picture. 1 thing I constantly do is have that 1 scrambled egg (no grease) in the morning and it's listed as 7 grams of poly fat. 1 cup of Picadillo today (ground beef soup with tiny potatoes) kinda made it shoot up. 3 pieces boiled chicken no skin/cabbage/green beans... i'm at 47% fat and 904 calories already today and carbs are too low. I'll even this out with my last 2 meals today, fish and brown rice tonight with a whey shake as my last meal.

Smoking is far more injurious to your health than your fat.

Amen, and the health of my kids. I'll end up eating more but I know I can do it. At least i'll be feeding new muscles for sure. I'm gonna take DQeuoso advice and put out 10 smokes a day -1 until I get to 0.

It will be the hardest (but best) thing i've done in the last 20 years. guess I wont be getting drunk at the strip bar Friday night. I don't want to set myself up for faliure, but if I fall off this bike, just get the hell back on again.

Updating after 2 months, still a newb. Down to 189 (from 200) and 3-4 inches off the waist, gone up on all my exercises. Buying new shorts was fun.

Wrists a bit sore, my back's a lil pissed... hell whole body screaming at me. Not too worried since minor stretching seems to relieve it a bit. My bench sucked last workout but other lifts feel super.

Using the Anabolic Diet with great success and little sacrafice. http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?t=40513&page=8
Playing with calories right now, I want to gain mass too. Aiming for <2800 and toying with deficits during the week. Carb loads on Fri morning to Sat night. I luv this diet.

Also finalized my workout until I plateau, mostly based off Mark Rippetoe's "Starting Strength". Having a hard time justifying squatting 3x a week so I will sub incline bench on occasion.

Workout A
3x5 Squat (If too sore sub. Incline Bench, I'm 38, not some mutant teen anymore ;)
3x5 Bench Press
1x5 Deadlift
Dips (Add Much Later)

Workout B
3x5 Squat
3x5 Standing military press
3x5 Bent Over Row
Pullups/Chins (Add Much later)

week 1
Monday - Workout A
Wednesday - Workout B
Friday - Workout A

Week 2:
Monday - Workout B
Wednesday - Workout A
Friday - Workout B

Feels good, priority is just lifting intense, staying motivated and getting g/f and friends involved seems to help lots.

After coming so far burning out would suck.

How did you get on quitting the bines? (smokes).

11 sticks a day. Every day I think about how I need to quit... But I keep saying in a couple months, justifying it by thinking at least I get my nutrition and weights right.

Cold turkey is the only way and it seems my hardest test is coming. Pretty damn sad, I wish they;d ban smokes.

Im on day 3 of my smoking quit. It's getting a little easier from here, cravings are much more manageable.

Mind over Cravings, Educating myself was key to finally quitting. This article in particular http://whyquit.com/whyquit/A_Symptoms.html

Eating more but helping fuel muscle growth. Workouts feel good, coughing stopped today.

There's no event/calamity that can happen in my life that a smoke will ever fix. I'm prepared for the worst!

Great job on quitting smoking! Keep it up! :tucool: