Are these basically like your regular deadlift but with less of a knee bend? Sort of a cross between a regular and a SLD? I'm going to be doing some tomorrow and I've seen some vid's and that's what it looks like to me. Just want to clarify it. Thanks.

Are these basically like your regular deadlift but with less of a knee bend? Sort of a cross between a regular and a SLD? I'm going to be doing some tomorrow and I've seen some vid's and that's what it looks like to me. Just want to clarify it. Thanks.

Chic posted a diagram (http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showpost.php?p=563877&postcount=2737) he drew down in the WL just recently, and I think he's got a demo vid on youtube.

RDLs have the bar in closer to the body than a SLDL on the movement. Where the SLDL has you hinging nearly straight over at the hips, the RDL has you pushing the butt back instead, with the bar path staying much closer to the body. Descend with the bar until you are about to lose the neutral spine (or slight arched spine), then go back up. There is some knee bend in an RDL, but it loads up the hams and glutes more than a conventional deadlift.

There are a lot of threads on this in the WL forum, so search will probably give you a lot better descriptions. Also, go to google video and you'll find a couple of Dan John videos. One is the Fitcast video. The other one has a pretty good example of how to push your butt back.

The butt punch is the key.

No. They're all distinct movements.

Here's a quick diagram I threw together the other day for someone about the difference between a SLDL and a RDL:

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/5466/39072459xr1.gif

Here's a rough deadlift for comparison:

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/793/deadliftom5.jpg

Chic posted a diagram (http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showpost.php?p=563877&postcount=2737) he drew down in the WL just recently, and I think he's got a demo vid on youtube.

RDLs have the bar in closer to the body than a SLDL on the movement. Where the SLDL has you hinging nearly straight over at the hips, the RDL has you pushing the butt back instead, with the bar path staying much closer to the body. Descend with the bar until you are about to lose the neutral spine (or slight arched spine), then go back up. There is some knee bend in an RDL, but it loads up the hams and glutes more than a conventional deadlift.

There are a lot of threads on this in the WL forum, so search will probably give you a lot better descriptions. Also, go to google video and you'll find a couple of Dan John videos. One is the Fitcast video. The other one has a pretty good example of how to push your butt back.

The butt punch is the key.

The diagram was totally helpful thanks. In general can one do more or less with the RDL than the regular deadlift? Never done it so I want to get a feel for it tomorrow. Last time I checked I did 250x4 for 10 sets with the regular deads.

Although it may be safe to start lower since I'm not familiar with the technique.

No. They're all distinct movements.

Here's a quick diagram I threw together the other day for someone about the difference between a SLDL and a RDL:

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/5466/39072459xr1.gif

Here's a rough deadlift for comparison:

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/793/deadliftom5.jpg

Cool I hadn't seen the second pic. Thanks.

The diagram was totally helpful thanks. In general can one do more or less with the RDL than the regular deadlift? Never done it so I want to get a feel for it tomorrow. Last time I checked I did 250x4 for 10 sets with the regular deads.

Although it may be safe to start lower since I'm not familiar with the technique.

Conventional > Romanian > SLDL

Conventional > Romanian > SLDL

The conventional is the heaviest, but some people have SLDL really close to their conventional, and others are in the order you gave. It sort of comes down to whether your hamstrings or lumbar extensors are stronger.

I'm doing a 4x6 with those so I'll start off with 220 and if I can do more I'll add weight for the other sets. Thanks guys.

The conventional is the heaviest, but some people have SLDL really close to their conventional, and others are in the order you gave. It sort of comes down to whether your hamstrings or lumbar extensors are stronger.
The ones with a bigger SLDL aren't going to train the RDL simultaneously. Otherwise, the RDL is usually going to come out on top because it's more efficient.

Also, keep in mind, I'm basing my definitions of RDL and SLDL as looking something like the above diagrams independent of whatever the lifter may name theirs.

I'm doing a 4x6 with those so I'll start off with 220 and if I can do more I'll add weight for the other sets. Thanks guys.

How much do you conventional?

I'd advise starting light and working on understanding form before you start loading up. At least work with a broomstick and practice pushing the butt out while keeping the back in shape.

Stand near a wall holding a broom, dowel, or bar. Proud chest. Push the butt back until it touches the wall while slightly hinging the knees. Keep the weight on the heels. Return to upright by reversing and pushing the hips forward and firing the glutes. Step out a few inches and repeat. Keeping moving out from the wall until you get to the point where flexibility limits you from keeping your low back in shape.

While doing this, you should feel the hamstrings load up all the way down to the back of the knees.

How much do you conventional?

I'd advise starting light and working on understanding form before you start loading up. At least work with a broomstick and practice pushing the butt out while keeping the back in shape.

Stand near a wall holding a broom, dowel, or bar. Proud chest. Push the butt back until it touches the wall while slightly hinging the knees. Keep the weight on the heels. Return to upright by reversing and pushing the hips forward and firing the glutes. Step out a few inches and repeat. Keeping moving out from the wall until you get to the point where flexibility limits you from keeping your low back in shape.

While doing this, you should feel the hamstrings load up all the way down to the back of the knees.

I've been practicing for the since I saw the pics. I'm keeping an ear out so my wife doesn't think I'm a weirdo when she sees me bending down with my arms hagning.

In December I lifted 250lbs for 10 sets of 4 reps. That was probably close to 80 percent of my max (probably a little less). I did a strength program this month so I doubt I lost strength in this exercise even though I have not done it since the middle of December.

The ones with a bigger SLDL aren't going to train the RDL simultaneously. Otherwise, the RDL is usually going to come out on top because it's more mechanically efficient.

Also, keep in mind, I'm basing this on the RDL and SLDL looking something like the above diagrams and not whatever the lifter decides to call theirs.

Yeah I'm just thinking about the guys whose conventional is almost completley SLDL. I know you tend to forget they are out there, but they exist.

9V_PbCLCfv0

I've been practicing for the since I saw the pics. I'm keeping an ear out so my wife doesn't think I'm a weirdo when she sees me bending down with my arms hagning.

In December I lifted 250lbs for 10 sets of 4 reps. That was probably close to 80 percent of my max (probably a little less). I did a strength program this month so I doubt I lost strength in this exercise even though I have not done it since the middle of December.


I'm not sure 220 would be a good starting point then. Don't overload before you really get the feel of the movement, or you'll end up cheating and won't get the full benefit. Just because you can move the bar doesn't mean you are doing it right (from experience).

I'd start in the 185 range and work up as I got the feel.

Yeah I'm just thinking about the guys whose conventional is almost completley SLDL. I know you tend to forget they are out there, but they exist.

9V_PbCLCfv0

Isn't that dangerous for the back? I thought you were supposed to bend your knees when you picked up something heavy from the ground.

I do not plan on starting my RDL's from the floor. I planned on carrying them off a higher surface and bending down.

Yeah I'm just thinking about the guys whose conventional is almost completley SLDL. I know you tend to forget they are out there, but they exist.
Yeah, I forget them on purpose. The diagram shows pretty much how I picture the three lifts. It also shows what I'd say is pretty much their prototypical depictions. If you remove the labels and ask someone to identify which is a DL, RDL, and SLDL, unless he's seriously confused, he's going to match up the names the same way. So, it's with these prototypes that I'm basing my hierarchy. If you deviate from them, you're going to deviate from it as well.

I do not plan on starting my RDL's from the floor. I planned on carrying them off a higher surface and bending down.
IMO, if you work out in a public gym, there's no need to take up a rack or higher surface. Just conventional deadlift the bar to start and then start your RDL from the top. If you work out at home or the gym is empty though, do whatever you please. :nod: