I've been attempting to get more lean for the past three weeks. I'm in the upper-teens for bodyfat percentage and hoped that by simply eating clean and performing some physical task each day it would help me cut down.

But after performing my check this morning I found that I have basically flatlined for the past three weeks. I travel a lot so always thought that counting calories would be nearly impossible, but it seems that I am still somehow eating too much.

I make sure to eat 6-7 times per day, only eat grilled meats and do have one cheat meal on the weekends. My portion sizes are very reasonable and in fact I don't always even eat everything in front of me since I always stop when full. I'm performing weight training three days a week and going to a kickboxing class 2-3 times weekly.

So should I just ramp up my physical activity even more so? Or try the impossible which is count calories and cut them down? With the traveling it seems difficult and I'm also afraid that I'll lose the energy that I have by not eating quite as much.

Or should I just continue what I'm doing, wait until more muscle is built, and in turn more calories will be burnt?

Am certainly not a professional as i've started myself since a short while, but i'd like to comment on the calories-count thing.

Although pros always suggest one should get busy designing a healthy food regime instead of counting calories, but still, counting does have advantages! .. As a beginner, I feel it keeps me up to date with my food and the percentages of protein, carbs and fat. I feel it's some sort of motivation, or at least a watcher, that would help me to stick to my diet and adjust what I eat according to the percentages I follow.

If you like, have a look on the stickies and see what system (in terms of p,c,f percentages you need to follow). You will also find an excel sheet which will help you counting if you wish .. I use fitday.com .. i like the way it works.

Have fun.
M

For me, regulating my calorie intake is far more important than eating a particular balance of macro nutrients, or even "eating clean". Twice (summer of 2006, and January of 2008) I have been able to get down under 10% body fat without planning any meals or making any attempt to balance macro nutrients - just counting calories on the fly and shooting for 2500-2700/day (rounding to the nearest 100 and being in the ballpark is good enough). But let me explain where I'm coming from...

1. I don't have a lot of bad eating habits. I don't drink beer or soda; I don't like candy or ice cream or chips or french fries. Baked goods are a weakness for me, but I can easily cut them out for a few weeks if I'm trying to lose fat. In general, I eat a lot of meat, eggs, and dairy so getting protein isn't an issue. The point is, my macro nutrient balance probably isn't too bad to begin with.

2. I am 21 years old and I've never been that out of shape. I have about 150 lbs of lean body mass, and I can easily squat, deadlift, benchpress, and pull-up more than my bodyweight. I can also run a 6:00 mile and do it fairly regularly. The point is, I know I have a metabolism that a lot of people would kill for (at times I've sustained 4000-4500 calories without gaining anything). In addition, when I have attempted to lose fat, my goal has never been much more than 10-15 pounds.

NOW, If I was trying to lose 25, 30, 40+ pounds of fat over the long term, or if I knew I couldn't trust myself to eat reasonably well without any system for control, then I'm sure I'd have to pay much more attention to planning my meals and "eating clean". Simply restricting calories and eating like crap would surely just do damage to my metabolism. But do remember that in the end, it's still just a matter of thermodynamics. If you don't have a calorie deficit, either because you are eating too many or your metabolism has crashed, then you aren't losing weight.

Tim

Macros are very important. These are the key to understanding what truly works for your body. Yes, calorie balance is important, and perhaps it does take a higher priority in the beginning, but it is essential to master the art of discovering which nutrient balance works best for you as an individual. :nod:

How are you assessing progress? Simple scale weight, or more in depth tracking?

Even if you can't get an exact calorie/macro count, you could start keeping a log of everything you eat/drink. From this you should be able to examine your nutritional practices, and look for areas to improve upon. This can be just as important as the numbers themselves.

For example, if you were working with a dietician, they wouldn't just ask how many grams of carbs you consumed, they'd want to know the sources they came from, and descriptions of the meals they were a part of.

See this is all pretty new to me as when I first began working out I actually had to do everything I can to bulk up because of my metabolism. Now I've gone a little over the point where I'm comfortable and want to lose some of the additional fat I gained.

But because I'm so active I don't want to cut my calories down to a point where I am lethargic and unable to perform well during kickboxing or weight training.

I'll have to do what I can to estimate my calories then see if I can find somewhere to cut back. I generally avoid all of the "bad" food except like I said on my cheat meal. And for the past three weeks I've basically stayed at the same weight and bodyfat % regardless of the increase in exercise and emphasis on eating clean. That fact just had me somewhat stumped as to why I see no change...

Your problem may be you're not eating enough. That's the problem with winging your diet. You never know what you are really doing.

In my expierence the leaner you get the higher your calorie intake needs to be. I don't mean a surplus just the shortfall for me had to keep shrinking. When I started out a 1000+ calorie shortfall was fine. Later 500. Now I doubt I could stay even at 500 for more then a few weeks.

But lets assume your problem is too high an intake. How would you know? Your idea of a portion may be screwed up. You may be making other mistakes.

You don't need to track every single day. After awhile you get to the point you have a good sense of a portion and what you should be eating. I've tracked two or three days the last few months.

Your problem may be you're not eating enough. That's the problem with winging your diet. You never know what you are really doing.

In my expierence the leaner you get the higher your calorie intake needs to be. I don't mean a surplus just the shortfall for me had to keep shrinking. When I started out a 1000+ calorie shortfall was fine. Later 500. Now I doubt I could stay even at 500 for more then a few weeks.

But lets assume your problem is too high an intake. How would you know? Your idea of a portion may be screwed up. You may be making other mistakes.

You don't need to track every single day. After awhile you get to the point you have a good sense of a portion and what you should be eating. I've tracked two or three days the last few months.

Well I think you might be right - my portion sizes may be a little too big. It's actually not a bad thing as I am putting on some bulk. My BF % has remained the same but weight has gone up.

So when time comes to cut, I'll make sure to start counting the calories!

In my opinion I think perhaps the weightlifting community probably overcomplicate the weight loss dynamics i.e. lift weights and eat certain macros and the weight will drop off.........


Nice idea in theory but in my own opinion it's a fair bit more simple than that, i.e. eat less calories than you expend, and in particular move your body, weights will no doubt burn a shit load of fat but that said if you need to shift a shitload of fat quickly then you need to move your body intensely i.e. run like a maniac, play intense sports like soccer or squash, put it this way, if you were to join the army and you were out of shape, then how do you think the drill sergeant would resolve to get his sloppy overweight recruits in shape - by weight training ? No! By old fashioned running you into the ground and assault courses i.e exercises that would burn fat directly rather than waiting around for alleged EPOCH caused by weight training (is EPOCH even proven?)

Eating 6- 7 meals a day will make no difference whatsover if the calories are too high...... I do suspect that is one of the old time body building myths actually, 3 meals versus 6 meals, same calories, I suspect the difference is minimal, if at all, Ive known guys as low as 3 percent who ate 3 meals (a very fit pro footballert mind) per day.

I pretty much just eat 3 meals a day and sometimes a small snack like peanuts in the evening. Counting calories and carbs is what I would suggest. Carbs are important for energy but any unused goes in the bank. Figure out how many carbs a day you need and keep that as a limit. I leaned up just by watching my carb intake alone.

Does carbs blah blah blah really make that much of a diffrence if you're in deficit ? I suspect not, but would defer to the more experienced guys re diet of course.


That said lose weight, move more, even the most knowlegable guys hopefully wont challenge that basic thesis:D

I would get some food scales and make an attempt to weight things you eat for a while.
This will help you assessing exactly how many calories you're consuming, but more important going forward, it will give you a much better idea about what a portion size actually is.

If you weight things religiously to start with you'll become familiar with how much chicken weighs 200g, how much rice 80g is etc. for when you're not able to have the scales with you.
If you travel a lot being able to estimate accurately how much you're consuming is a very important skill.

I went from basically 210lb to 140lbs on an average of 55% carbs. Many days closer to 65%. I like carbs and the carbs like me. :lol:

Find out what your body needs. We aren't all alike. We don't all react the same.

I started using a simple word doc to log my calories but theres an easier way.

euan suggested trying http://www.fitday.com and glad I did. Took me a whole 5 min to signup and track/search for foods I ate that day. Breaks down the protien, carbs, fats and give great reports, tracks goals. Worth a look.

Ez

In my opinion I think perhaps the weightlifting community probably overcomplicate the weight loss dynamics i.e. lift weights and eat certain macros and the weight will drop off.........


Nice idea in theory but in my own opinion it's a fair bit more simple than that, i.e. eat less calories than you expend, and in particular move your body, weights will no doubt burn a shit load of fat but that said if you need to shift a shitload of fat quickly then you need to move your body intensely i.e. run like a maniac, play intense sports like soccer or squash, put it this way, if you were to join the army and you were out of shape, then how do you think the drill sergeant would resolve to get his sloppy overweight recruits in shape - by weight training ? No! By old fashioned running you into the ground and assault courses i.e exercises that would burn fat directly rather than waiting around for alleged EPOCH caused by weight training (is EPOCH even proven?)

:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

The point of eating a lot of protein and lifting weights while cutting is to minimize/prevent muscle loss.

By old fashioned running you into the ground and assault courses i.e exercises that would burn fat directly rather than waiting around for alleged EPOCH caused by weight training (is EPOCH even proven?)

Why, yes. Yes, it is. For example:

Schuenke MD, Mikat RP, McBride JM.
Eur J Appl Physiol. 2002 Mar;86(5):411-7. Epub 2002 Jan 29.

Studies have shown metabolism to remain elevated for hours following resistance exercise, but none have gone beyond 16 h, nor have they followed a whole body, high intensity exercise protocol. To examine the duration of excess post-exercise oxygen consumption (EPOC) following a period of heavy resistance exercise, seven healthy men [mean (SD) age 22 (3) years, height 177 (8) cm, mass 83 (10) kg, percentage body fat 10.4 (4.2)%] engaged in a 31 min period of resistance exercise, consisting of four circuits of bench press, power cleans, and squats. Each set was performed using the subject's own predetermined ten-repetition maximum and continued until failure. Oxygen consumption ( ) measurements were obtained at consistent times (34 h pre-, 29 h pre-, 24 h pre-, 10 h pre-, 5 h pre-, immediately post-, 14 h post-, 19 h post-, 24 h post-, 38 h post-, 43 h post-, and 48 h post-exercise). Post-exercise measurements were compared to the baseline measurements made at the same time of day. The was significantly elevated ( P<0.05) above baseline values at immediately post, 14, 19, and 38 h post-exercise. Mean daily values for both post-exercise days were also significantly elevated above the mean value for the baseline day. These results suggest that EPOC duration following resistance exercise extends well beyond the previously reported duration of 16 h. The duration and magnitude of the EPOC observed in this study indicates the importance of future research to examine a possible role for high intensity resistance training in a weight management program for various populations.

You can also check out Alwyn Cosgrove's article at T-Nation (http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1526539) on the Hierarchy of Fat Loss.

if you were to join the army and you were out of shape, then how do you think the drill sergeant would resolve to get his sloppy overweight recruits in shape - by weight training ? No! By old fashioned running you into the ground and assault courses

The Army solves (or attempts to solve) this problem by putting you in something called Special Population Physical Training. In this group (everywhere I have seen it, at least), you meet 5 days/week and exercise for 60-90 minutes doing mind-numbing repetitions of pushups, abdominal exercises, and some running.

Does it work? By itself - no. I've seen a lot of people stay in Special Pop for months and months without losing a pound. It only works if the soldiers are on board with the program and take care of the nutritional side of the house (in Basic the drill sergeants can make that happen to some degree).

It does work to get a lot of people hurt, though, because of repetitive motion and muscular imbalances. And some people get really good at doing endless numbers of crunches and flutter-kicks while still being fat.

I think that overweight, out-of-shape soldiers and civilians would both be far better off doing a balanced strength training program and restricting calories.

Tim

is EPOC even proven?

Since about 1930.

Go get a heart monitor and measure your own EPOC yourself. Then maybe you will believe it.

It's OK to not believe it too. EPOC is not like tinkerbell. It's there helping you whether you believe it or not.

So I decided this upcoming week I'll begin my calorie-counting cycle. I used to be able to tell just by portion size exactly how much I was eating. But it also has been almost 6 years since I last tracked each of my meals.

I know it'll be tough when I'm on the road but I'll just have to try and work around that fact and eat as many controlled portions (like protein bars) as I can.

I'm working out with weights three times per week, kickboxing three times per week , and walking my dog for thirty minutes every morning (the last two only happen when I'm home so there is a bit of inconsistency there). I think with all of these activities and with me watching my calories, I should be able to lose those few extra pounds of fat that I'm trying to get rid of. I can see my abs when I flex, but in a relaxed state I'm not quite as happy with the results. Aside from the gut area I don't see a lot of extra fat hanging around my body.

I'll keep you all posted!

It shouldn't be too hard.

Over the first couple of weeks, you have to read a lot of labels and look things up online. After that, though, it gets pretty easy. Most of us don't eat that many different types of food, so you memorize what is in your milk, your bread, your peanut butter, your favorite hamburger or sandwich, and so on.

You'll also find that after a while you get pretty good at estimating within 100 calories. You look at a plate of something and you can compare it mentally to something else you know that is similar. At that point, you can just do this on the fly.

And like I said in my last post, being in the ballpark is good enough. In the real world, this isn't a perfect science. Your metabolism adapts and your activity level varies everyday, so don't get too hung up on whether or not you are off by a 100 calories. Besides that, sometimes you overestimate and sometimes you underestimate, and it probably evens out at the end of a week.

Tim