Is it safe to work a particular muscle group more than once a week without hindering muscle growth?

Sure, it depends on what sort of program you're using, how hard you're hitting it. If you go to failure all the time you'll accumulate fatigue and feel crappy, but you can definitely hit groups more than once. I've done essentially the same workout 3-4 days a week on a cut. On a bulk I'd hit the group twice. I've also done Westside for Skinny bastards style where you hit each group hard once and with less weight/more reps later in the week.

Many strength and conditioning people (the ones who deal with real athletes) like Alwyn Cosgrove, Dan John, Joe DeFranco, and others don't even talk in terms of "muscle groups" anymore. They've been preaching against that sort of thing for a few years now. Instead, they talk about basic athletic movements - pressing, pulling, squatting, extending, etc. Many of them have made comments to the effect that "nothing is an isolation movement", that "even a lateral dumbbell raise activates many muscles all over your body", or that you could completely screw up somebody trying a 1-rep max benchpress just by "sticking a fork in their calf."

Think about Olympic lifters who are generally bigger and stronger than we could ever even hope to be - they might perform roughly the same movements, working the same muscles, day after day with varying levels of intensity.

It's so much more complicated than just saying "Monday is chest and shoulders, Wednesday is back and biceps, and so on." In a way, though, that simplifies things for us. Just pick up a barbell and go hard and heavy on big compound exercises.

Tim

Many strength and conditioning people (the ones who deal with real athletes) like Alwyn Cosgrove, Dan John, Joe DeFranco, and others don't even talk in terms of "muscle groups" anymore. They've been preaching against that sort of thing for a few years now. Instead, they talk about basic athletic movements - pressing, pulling, squatting, extending, etc. Many of them have made comments to the effect that "nothing is an isolation movement", that "even a lateral dumbbell raise activates many muscles all over your body", or that you could completely screw up somebody trying a 1-rep max benchpress just by "sticking a fork in their calf."

Think about Olympic lifters who are generally bigger and stronger than we could ever even hope to be - they might perform roughly the same movements, working the same muscles, day after day with varying levels of intensity.

It's so much more complicated than just saying "Monday is chest and shoulders, Wednesday is back and biceps, and so on." In a way, though, that simplifies things for us. Just pick up a barbell and go hard and heavy on big compound exercises.

Tim

True, but with the help of technology, we can help isolate them with machines, right?

Of course it is. Do you think results from full body programs or anything other than a once a week body part split are a myth?

Don't allow yourself to be brainwashed by some poorly applied body building logic that turns out to be counterproductive within the context of what you need to see results.

It would probably be better to discuss things in a broader scope with the full details of the training program you're following, or to just find an already proven template that is appropriate for you based on your situation.

True, but with the help of technology, we can help isolate them with machines, right?

I haven't heard a single good word said about isolation training using machines since I started doing this stuff 5 years ago (except from the manufacturers and gyms selling this crap).

The general consensus is this: the human body is WAY more complicated than a bunch of simple mechanical pulleys and hydraulics that magically to fit together just right.

Muscles don't operate independently in the real world to accomplish anything, so why would you train them that way? What makes you think your body would even be willing to adapt in that way?

Tim

I haven't heard a single good word said about isolation training using machines since I started doing this stuff 5 years ago (except from the manufacturers and gyms selling this crap).

OK... try this one on for size.

Isolation training using machines is helpful for those who do not wish to lift with free weights. And like any other tool, they can be used effectively as part of an overall fitness program.

True, but with the help of technology, we can help isolate them with machines, right?

Are you planning on machine isolation exercises playing a big part in your overall development?

Are you planning on machine isolation exercises playing a big part in your overall development?

no, not at all.

OK... try this one on for size.

Isolation training using machines is helpful for those who do not wish to lift with free weights. And like any other tool, they can be used effectively as part of an overall fitness program.

Ok, well, yeah. Just like walking is helpful for those who do not wish to do any more intense form of exercise.

I just think the original poster is looking the most productive style of training - not looking to make compromises due to some physical/motivational limitations. I've never seen anything credible showing that isolating muscles with machines is SUPERIOR (for the purposes of overall aesthetics and performance) to, say, doing squats or deadlifts with a barbell.

But, yes, I know what you are saying. I too try to keep things in perspective and see where everything has its place.

Tim

OK... try this one on for size.

Isolation training using machines is helpful for those who do not wish to lift with free weights. And like any other tool, they can be used effectively as part of an overall fitness program.

The same can be said for the thigh master...

Ok, well, yeah. Just like walking is helpful for those who do not wish to do any more intense form of exercise.

I just think the original poster is looking the most productive style of training - not looking to make compromises due to some physical/motivational limitations. I've never seen anything credible showing that isolating muscles with machines is SUPERIOR (for the purposes of overall aesthetics and performance) to, say, doing squats or deadlifts with a barbell.

But, yes, I know what you are saying. I too try to keep things in perspective and see where everything has its place.

Tim

Yep, I'm looking for the most productive workout routine, not the easiest. I think free weights take the cake.

I too try to keep things in perspective and see where everything has its place.

Thanks for being able to see both sides.

I went through a certification class yesterday to teach Muscular Strength and Range of Motion to senior citizens, and it really opened my mind to some of the movements that we take for granted every day and how limiting they can be for those with physical disabilities or a significant amount of deconditioning.

Even simple coordination drills (like tapping the toes of one foot while tapping the heel of the other) can be a challenge for someone with a diminished mental capability as a result of aging or someone without a moderate degree of muscular control from an illness or disease.

The entire class was taught with a simple playball, an elastic band, and a light weight set of dumbbells, and all of the exercises could be done from a seated position. Basically, you never had to get out of the chair. And while I wouldn't say the workout was much of a workout from my point of view (as someone who is fit and healthy), I can certainly see how it would be quite strenuous for someone who was older and less active (or dealing with physical ailments).

So that's where MY post was coming from...

i sure hope that training more than one muscle group a week isn't bad lol. b/c i'm currently bulking and i go to the gym 3-4 times a week doing just upper body and lower body (on different days of course) and also machines are bad?

that sucks b/c pretty much all i use for my upper/lower body workout is machines.....dang

i sure hope that training more than one muscle group a week isn't bad lol. b/c i'm currently bulking and i go to the gym 3-4 times a week doing just upper body and lower body (on different days of course) and also machines are bad?

that sucks b/c pretty much all i use for my upper/lower body workout is machines.....dang

Well, no, it's not so much "Good vs Bad". It's not like we are saying that using machines will make you worse off. When I started training I added some of my beginning strength using machines.

It's just a matter of "More productive vs Less productive". Generally speaking, I think standing, compound, barbell exercises are going to be more challenging and more productive for overall development. But you can work up to that using machines initially and just practicing form with an empty barbell.

Tim