View Full Version : Advice for decline...


DougD137
April 27th, 2004, 12:00 AM
I have a question for you guys. I mainly workout at home since I have most of the tools I need to get into shape. The only thing I'm lacking is a bench that will allow me to do Decline bench press. Is there other type of exercise I can do to work my lower chest?

J2kDarkSkies
April 27th, 2004, 01:22 AM
there is no such thing as a "lower chest" Anything that makes the chest grows will make the upper/lower/left/center etc. grow. Asking how to target the "lower chest" is the exact same as asking about the "lower bicep" or the "upper traps" or anything like that. Have you ever seen a body builder with a huge "upper chest" or a huge "lower chest"? No, because it doesn't exist.

Hmm...I may be wrong, but I don't believe so. This picture
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/chestbig.jpg Shows two muscles, Pectoralis Major and Pectoralis Minor, but it also shows them in the same color, and it shows different muscles in different colors (i.e. Biceps and triceps are different colors.) I have never done any incline or Decline exercises (only flat) and my lower chest is built as much as my upper...

DougD137
April 27th, 2004, 05:01 AM
Thanks for the info. :) Then whats the purpose of doing Incline and decline. I use flat bench just was wondering if there was a reason for doing decline.

JeremyLikness
April 27th, 2004, 07:38 AM
There are a few reasons to try various positions.

First, different muscles come into play at various angles. For example, an incline bench press incorporates more shoulder than a flat bench press, etc. Therefore, you ensure a good spectrum not only of the supporting muscles, but also how they coordinate and synergize during the lift.

Second, the central nervous system quickly adapts to the specific exercise you are doing. This means your body becomes more efficient, so it takes left effort to move the weight. Therefore, you start to see a slower rate of return on gains. Changing the angle of the exercise is one method to change the stimulus and therefore knock the nervous system out of its "comfort zone" so to speak.

Third, your bones actually strengthen during training. However, this is done in a vector that is tied to the angle through which you move the resistance. If you continuously use the same exact exercise/angle then this strengthening occurs across one vector. Varying the angle ensures you have a criss-crossed network of enforcement and thus lends to greater overall bone strength.

Just a few reasons. A decline also affords more loading (heavier weight) than flat for most people, and while you cannot work the "upper" or "lower'' per se, there is a huge psychological factor related to training and various angles simply illicit a different responsse due to your own shift in mental focus and effort!

Jeremy

Andrew M
April 27th, 2004, 07:43 AM
I have to disagree a little. Just because a muscle is a single unit, doesn't mean that all parts of that muscle preform the same actions.

Taken simply, all a muscle does is shorten the distance between two bony points. The joints that these bony points move around define the arc that the points will move through towards each other.

The most obvious example is the trapezius. Its upper fibres run downwards from the spine to the top of the scapula, and lift your shoulder (shrugs). However, the lower fibres run upwards from the spine to the medial aspect of the scapula, and pull your shoulderblades together and down (seated rows).

With pec major, the upper part(s) will be more active during incline press and shoulder press, whilst the lower part(s) will be more active during decline bench and dips.

Andrew.

JeremyLikness
April 27th, 2004, 05:48 PM
I have to disagree a little. Just because a muscle is a single unit, doesn't mean that all parts of that muscle preform the same actions.

Taken simply, all a muscle does is shorten the distance between two bony points. The joints that these bony points move around define the arc that the points will move through towards each other.

The most obvious example is the trapezius. Its upper fibres run downwards from the spine to the top of the scapula, and lift your shoulder (shrugs). However, the lower fibres run upwards from the spine to the medial aspect of the scapula, and pull your shoulderblades together and down (seated rows).

With pec major, the upper part(s) will be more active during incline press and shoulder press, whilst the lower part(s) will be more active during decline bench and dips.

Andrew.


Andrew, the interesting thing is that electromagnetic testing disputes your claims. The majority of testing shows that regardless of the angle, the muscle has motor units that run the length of the muscle and when one motor unit fires and completely contracts, it is not localized to an area of the muscle.

In fact, to date, I am aware of only one instance where it appears the exercise does influence the part of the muscle acted upon - and that is the abdominal wall. Again, testing of the electromagnetic impulses here demonstrate that the lower and upper can be activated separate from each other.

This is not to say there is not a benefit, again, from tendons, ligaments, etc, but again, science has thus far failed to demonstrate any possibility of shaping the muscle. Whether you do inclines or declines, the entire pectoral muscle gains size, not just the top or bottom. Now, just because science hasn't proven it doesn't mean its not true, but I have yet to witness this in the gym, either. Going through pictures of bodybuilders at various stages of their career, I have yet to see any evidence that anyone did anything other than change the SIZE of their muscle, rather than the shape.

Jeremy

Andrew M
April 29th, 2004, 08:52 PM
Jeremy, I think we're at slightly cross purposes here. I agree with you that a muscle (the pectoralis to be specific) will be activated across all it's motor units when that muscle is called into action. However, the motor units can be activated to varying degrees, and can contract by differing amounts depending upon the angle of movement of the joint.

In a simple hinge joint (elbow) all the fibres will contract in the same proportions when the muscle is contracted, as they all lie in the same plane.

With rectus abdominus, the muscle bellies are electrically isolated from each other by fibrous bands, so can be activated separately (although I can offer no evidence of this).

With pec major, the muscle arises in a fan from the medial third of your clavicle, down along your sternum to the costal cartillages of your 6-8th ribs, and all of these fibres insert into the upper third of your humerus in a line. Since your shoulder has such a wide range of articulation, there are many angles where the fibres contract with differing proportions. As far as I'm aware, the only angle where all the fibres will contract in proportion is when your upper arm is moved in an horizontal arc when you are standing (the motion your upper arm goes through during flat bench press.)

With trapezius, the arrangement of the fibres means that it's impossible for all of them to contract at the same time (some anatomists don't classify it as a single muscle). If the uppermost fibres contract, the scapula will rise, if the lowermost contract, the scapula fill drop; the shared direction is inwards.

I agree with you about mass/size gains however. Despite different angles of fibres in some muscles, their general purpose is broadly the same, and so will grow at similar rates.

That all said, any movement about any joint involves most if not all muscles crossing that joint, whether they are actively contracting, passively relaxing (which uses energy too) or providing isometric stabilisation.

Andrew.