I remember reading two things

1) Doing shoulder workouts like military pressess in each workout will eventually lead to weightlifters shoulder injury

2) Shouldn't really incorporate shoulder workouts if already doing bench pressess

Those are probably rumors or personal preference, I dunno...not passing them off as fact....just stuff I heard that affected me.

I always liked doing barbell military pressess but for the past 8 months I stopped doing them, is it really unnecessary to do shoulder workouts if I bench press and do they really lead to weightlifters shoulder injury or at least a high chance....

I am extra curious, because it seems military presses can really help me with my upper chest area, I can't work my upper chest well because my home bench only allows me to get half of an incline (I can't do a full incline because my upper body is too close to the rack and I don't have a spotter...I live alone) so I just stick to flat bench pressess....

I won't be doing these all the time, I figure I can use this as my isolation workout for a set week...and switch between bicep curls, trice kickbacks every other week alternating.

I remember reading two things

1) Doing shoulder workouts like military pressess in each workout will eventually lead to weightlifters shoulder injury

2) Shouldn't really incorporate shoulder workouts if already doing bench pressess

Those are probably rumors or personal preference, I dunno...not passing them off as fact....just stuff I heard that affected me.

I always liked doing barbell military pressess but for the past 8 months I stopped doing them, is it really unnecessary to do shoulder workouts if I bench press and do they really lead to weightlifters shoulder injury or at least a high chance....

I am extra curious, because it seems military presses can really help me with my upper chest area, I can't work my upper chest well because my home bench only allows me to get half of an incline (I can't do a full incline because my upper body is too close to the rack and I don't have a spotter...I live alone) so I just stick to flat bench pressess....

I won't be doing these all the time, I figure I can use this as my isolation workout for a set week...and switch between bicep curls, trice kickbacks every other week alternating.


This article just popped up on t-nation and should address your concerns:

http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1238411

I workout at home and alone also and am really enjoying the Hang and Clean Push Press (last exercise) from this article:

http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1597765

I think my shoulders/upper body has really responded to it.

Hope that helps a little.

Nate

I have always included Shoulder Presses, usually with barbell, in every workout. I have been training for over 50 years. I have never had a shoulder injury.

But you aren't me and I am not you. Use common sense, watch who you read and where you read it. :tucool:

I remember reading two things

1) Doing shoulder workouts like military pressess in each workout will eventually lead to weightlifters shoulder injury
No.

2) Shouldn't really incorporate shoulder workouts if already doing bench pressess
No.

You don't want to hit both with high volume though. Focus on one at a time, but train both.

I always liked doing barbell military pressess but for the past 8 months I stopped doing them, is it really unnecessary to do shoulder workouts if I bench press and do they really lead to weightlifters shoulder injury or at least a high chance....
You don't necessarily have to do shoulder pressing if you're bench pressing, but it's often useful to do so to help your bench press. If you want a big overhead press or large shoulders, however, you're not going to be able to get away with not doing shoulder work.

If you're inflexible or you already have an injury, any type of pressing has a higher chance of injury. It's actually much more common to develop a shoulder injury from bench pressing than overhead pressing. If your shoulder girdle has sufficient flexibility and is healthy, shoulder pressing does not increase the chance of injury.

I am extra curious, because it seems military presses can really help me with my upper chest area, I can't work my upper chest well because my home bench only allows me to get half of an incline (I can't do a full incline because my upper body is too close to the rack and I don't have a spotter...I live alone) so I just stick to flat bench pressess....
If military presses are really helping your upper chest area, you might want to check your form, so you don't end up with a back injury. A lot of arching is the only way you're going to get significant chest involvement.

I don't do Bench press, military press or behind the neck lat pulls (that one's obvious. It see tons of shoulder injuries in my private practice. Alot of tham are from those exercises.

Many shoulder injuries are waiting to happen because we over train the front of our bodies. This shortens the pecs, and causes internal rotation of the humeral head. This leads to stretching and weaking and eventual pinching off of particularly the supraspinatus tendon. They call it bursitis or tendonitis. But, the real deal is: It's because of a postural varient due to over training of the pecs and front of body (biceps) versus the back of body.

Next time you see a really muscular person walking through the gym, see if their hands are palm facing their body (which is good) or shoudler rolled forward and palms facing behind them Behind them mostly, huh?

These people need to do more pulling: lat pulls, seated cable rows, bent over row, back flies, reverse presses (those rolly machines where you squeeze your shoulder blades together) and back extenstions on the hyperextension bench. Oh- and specifically exeternal rotation on a cable pully mentioned in the below article.

Shoulders can be perfectly trained with:
Front raises, back flies, arnie presses with dumbells, lateral raises and uprigth rows... and for the most part, without incident. I also include rotator cuff training. Here's an article on rotator cuff stuff. Scroll down to Rotator cuff pain: http://www.fireagility.com/articles.php

Be safe!

Dr. Jen

My collar bones still show somewhat on the left and right side....also the center of my upper chest is flat and non muscular while my the rest of my pecs are developing.

In some lighting situations, it looks kind of weird...it looks like something ate away the muscle in my upper center chest...there does seem to be a minor layer of muscle there but it is really thin and flat....

I wonder if this was because of no military/shoulder pressess....which led me to believe they may help work the upper chest or upper area in general.

I hope I didn't confuse anyone, basically my collar bones can still be seen on the left and right side and my upper center chest is lacking muscle...how do I fix this....or is it more likely genetics?

My collar bones still show somewhat on the left and right side....also the center of my upper chest is flat and non muscular while my the rest of my pecs are developing.

In some lighting situations, it looks kind of weird...it looks like something ate away the muscle in my upper center chest...there does seem to be a minor layer of muscle there but it is really thin and flat....

I wonder if this was because of no military/shoulder pressess....which led me to believe they may help work the upper chest or upper area in general.

I hope I didn't confuse anyone, basically my collar bones can still be seen on the left and right side and my upper center chest is lacking muscle...how do I fix this....or is it more likely genetics?
There's not supposed to be a lot of muscle in the center of your upper chest. Likewise, your collar bones are always going to be seen unless you're carrying a significant amount of fat.

I've done a lot of overhead work and trust me that more shoulder work is not going to do much to change this, though larger shoulders (and large lats) will give your upper body the appearance of breadth which works very well with the flat line your collar bones create from shoulder to shoulder.

These people need to do more pulling: lat pulls, seated cable rows, bent over row, back flies, reverse presses (those rolly machines where you squeeze your shoulder blades together) and back extenstions on the hyperextension bench. Oh- and specifically exeternal rotation on a cable pully mentioned in the below article.



how about pullups / both weighted and unweighted, rows, deadlifts, and cleans??? i dont really like doing lat pulls at all...

How about pec crosses with a cable machine... Have the pulleys shoudler height, but the corss over at forehead height, crossing waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyy over... like past the other shoudler... Right over left, open 1/2 way, then left over right. This woudl be great for upper pec and medial pec.

Oh- and my medial upper pecs are visible. It's possible. It takes years of work.
Clavicles shoudl be visible in a lean person.

Dr. Jen

how about pullups / both weighted and unweighted, rows, deadlifts, and cleans??? i dont really like doing lat pulls at all...

Of those the rows and cleans make the most sense for this. Do you like T-bar rows?

And I find the best rotator cuff work for me is with the cable column. If it's not interesting enough you can always do it on planche with a the pulley set low.

Right on Dr.Jen!!....the palm test is a damn good indicator..:tucool:

I don't Mil Press and Bench on the same day....mainly because the Anterior Delts take a bit of a pounding from the Bench by itself...so it makes no sense to clobber 'em again in the same workout with Mil Press, which hits the Medial Delts too but also uses Anterior delts if the bar is somewhat in front of you a few degrees.

Besides...you also hammer your Tri's with Bench...so to follow it up with another ex that hammer's Tri's as well (especially if you're doing Mil Press Partials...where your weight is right up there) makes no sense.

I'll do lesser Tri ex's later on in the Bench workout as a finishing move.....with less weight.....

I always do Benching and Rowing (especially Wide grip Seated High Pull) in the same workout.

The Mil Press isn't the be-all and the end-all for shoulder workouts.

Hit those REAR Delts too!

Lay on a bench face down. The bench can be flat or angled up to about 15 degrees.
Have a DB in each hand.

Now raise both Db's (with elbows bent) straight out to the side at the same time same time and lower.repeat. As you move them out the side, you can move them ahead just a very minute fraction.

Next...after finishing these....Lie on the flat bench on your side.if on your right, have a Db in your left hand. Now let the Db hang down to the floor.
Raise it, with arm slightly bent, directly overhead, in arc moving away from your body. Lower. repeat.

Finish off with a set of Widegrip Seated Rows, pulling to the chest.

I live in Britsh Columbia. When I walk my arms tend to swing a bit when they're hanging down, palms facing hips.

For some strange reason, I've noticed that a lot of people from the Prairie provinces (Saskatchewan, Alberta) tend to walk with they're arms hanging straight down, no swing, with the palms facing directly backwards...:eek:

Don't know why this is....upbringing??

allows me to get half of an incline (I can't do a full incline because my upper body is too close to the rack and I don't have a spotter...I live alone) so I just stick to flat bench pressess....

What I've read is a safe way to handle that problem is to not secure the weights on one end of the bar with the clip or whatever you have so this way if you get into trouble you can slide one half of the weights off and be able to get out. I don't know if people do that a lot when alone but I tend to just for safety reasons.

What I've read is a safe way to handle that problem is to not secure the weights on one end of the bar with the clip or whatever you have so this way if you get into trouble you can slide one half of the weights off and be able to get out. I don't know if people do that a lot when alone but I tend to just for safety reasons.

Press in a cage if you are alone. Anything else, to me, is reckless. If you can't do it safely (notwithstanding form issues per this thread), use dumbbells.

P