Here's a link to a video I made of my deadlifting session on Friday. I'd like any feedback on my form and suggestions for improvement.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v664/Thrust/?action=view&current=P1000768.flv

i don't really like the way your back is rolled liek that.. i think it should be arched. zen / chic will know for sure.

Looks like you're locking out the legs too early.

Thanks for the suggestions. I had a back injury roughly a decade ago and since then I've had trouble standing "erect." I did notice that my back seemed way too "humped" in the video, however. I'm going to try to square my shoulders a bit more this week.

Further suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks for the suggestions. I had a back injury roughly a decade ago and since then I've had trouble standing "erect." I did notice that my back seemed way too "humped" in the video, however. I'm going to try to square my shoulders a bit more this week.


I took a vid of myself a couple weeks ago and noticed my form is a bit similar. While I feel my lower back is flat, my shoulders come forward and the top of my back appears to round. I'm also curious as you may be if the shoulders should remain "back" if that makes any sense at all.

It seems to my very very novice eyes that you complete your leg work too early, and are trending more to stiff legging the lift.

That said, i'm a moron and should not be trusted ;-) Keen to see more dialog unfold here and thanks a bunch for taking the time to share. Vids are cool.

Pete

Tips on what to watch in this video:

Tune out everything and focus on the end of the barbell. You should be able to see the path of your lift. How does the bar move, why does the bar move that way, and how should it move?

Tune out everything and watch your head. There is a very noticeable movement of your head at the start of the lift. Why does this happen and what needs to happen?

Now tune out everything and watch the position of your shoulders relative to the bar through the lift. This should match up with the first two observations.

(What to look for in any side video analysis for squats and deads: ID bar path, track joints.)

What kind of shoes are those?

^ any other advice to offer?

Also, if anyone's interested I filmed my squats today. Again, I'm a relative "newb" who lifts alone and has NO one to assist with technique (other than the internet dwellers). **gratuitous begging off now** ;)

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v664/Thrust/?action=view&current=Squatvid270lb10-23-07.flv

You start with too much knee bend. Before pulling, extend your knees (and hips as needed) until you've reached a position where there is tension through your whole body, so that, when you lift off, the bar immediately comes off the floor without any superfluous movement through any of your joints. In other words, maximize your leverage.

As you lift off, concentrate on extending at both the hips and knees simultaneously. This does not mean you're going to extend them equally, but rather that both joints should be moving. As it is, you're pressing through the knees first without extending the hips whatsoever.

Pick a spot on the wall in front of you and keep your eyes on it. Choose one that is between the height of your shoulders and the top of your head when you're standing erect.

You have some serious thoracic rounding. Watching your squat video, I see that you use a pad to deal with the pain of the bar on your upper back and you don't retract the scapula at all in order to create the "trap shelf" to place the bar on. I'm guessing you need to put in some serious time working to strengthening your upper back and improving posture. You definitely don't need to have a completely straight upper back when pulling heavy, but I do think you should be able to pull with better posture than that, at least for the weight you're using in the video.

I trained a friend over the summer and the following description is the way I had him approach the deadlift (though he had the benefit of hands on training): stand with the bar resting against your shins. Now with your chest up, your eye on your spot on the wall, and your arms hanging straight down, bend at the knees and hips until your hands can grasp the bar. As soon as they grasp the bar, stop descending. Your chest should still be up and your eye still on your spot. If this position is too comfortable or uncomfortable to stay in, you probably did it wrong. Now take a deep, shallow breath, filling your belly with air. With your elbows locked, make sure everything is tense very slightly pulling against the bar and then squeeze it off the floor, driving through your heels as you simultaneously try to push your hips forward into the bar -- you should feel every muscle in your thigh and your glutes contracting powerfully as you stand erect. Good job! Now before EVERY REP repeat this procedure until it is second nature.

Thanks for the thorough reply :tucool:

While I'm aware of the lifts that will strengthen the core, what steps should I take to begin correction of posture?

**edit** I just read your amended reply. Thanks for the description on correct deadlift form. I'll try to implement your suggestions and see the results for this week. Also, does it appear I'm lifting too little weight?

You start with too much knee bend. Before pulling, extend your knees (and hips as needed) until you've reached a position where there is tension through your whole body, so that, when you lift off, the bar immediately comes off the floor without any superfluous movement through any of your joints. In other words, maximize your leverage.

As you lift off, concentrate on extending at both the hips and knees simultaneously. This does not mean you're going to extend them equally, but rather that both joints should be moving. As it is, you're pressing through the knees first without extending the hips whatsoever.

Pick a spot on the wall in front of you and keep your eyes on it. Choose one that is between the height of your shoulders and the top of your head when you're standing erect.

You have some serious thoracic rounding. Watching your squat video, I see that you use a pad to deal with the pain of the bar on your upper back and you don't retract the scapula at all in order to create the "trap shelf" to place the bar on. I'm guessing you need to put in some serious time working to strengthening your upper back and improving posture. You definitely don't need to have a completely straight upper back when pulling heavy, but I do think you should be able to pull with better posture than that, at least for the weight you're using in the video.

I trained a friend over the summer and the following description is the way I had him approach the deadlift (though he had the benefit of hands on training): stand with the bar resting against your shins. Now with your chest up, your eye on your spot on the wall, and your arms hanging straight down, bend at the knees and hips until your hands can grasp the bar. As soon as they grasp the bar, stop descending. Your chest should still be up and your eye still on your spot. If this position is too comfortable or uncomfortable to stay in, you probably did it wrong. Now take a deep, shallow breath, filling your belly with air. With your elbows locked, make sure everything is tense very slightly pulling against the bar and then squeeze it off the floor, driving through your heels as you simultaneously try to push your hips forward into the bar -- you should feel every muscle in your thigh and your glutes contracting powerfully as you stand erect. Good job! Now before EVERY REP repeat this procedure until it is second nature.

What kind of shoes are those?

I will say when I switched to Chuck Taylor All Stars ( the low profile ones, not the high tops), that made a big difference for me (it's a dirt cheap shoe too, that's really well made).

Thanks for the thorough reply :tucool:

While I'm aware of the lifts that will strengthen the core, what steps should I take to begin correction of posture?
Check out the Neanderthal No More series of articles on T-Nation.

**edit** I just read your amended reply. Thanks for the description on correct deadlift form. I'll try to implement your suggestions and see the results for this week. Also, does it appear I'm lifting too little weight?
I wouldn't worry about it until you've cleaned up your form.

Deadlift: Bar too far in front to start. Hips rise too fast, head pitches forward. Either weak core or failure to stay tight. Low back rounding. Weight coming off heels.

Chic’s description is solid. :bow:

See comments on both lifts below.

Squat: The set-up makes or breaks the lift. Because you're using what looks like a freaking carwash sponge pad, you place your upper back first, then hands. You make no adjustments.

Karwoski - Master Squatter Set-up (http://youtube.com/watch?v=jKVXdamI2_A)
Karwoski - Squat Set-up (http://youtube.com/watch?v=L0lF4lm3efA)

You may want a wider stance, experiment with foot placement - from 24" to 32". A lot easier to start wider and bring it in than start too narrow.

Your squat starts by breaking from the knees. Most of your squat depth (such as it is) is then obtained by folding down like an accordion.

Google Boris Bachmann's Squat RX videos. Watch, learn, incorporate.

Both lifts: Warmups are as important as work sets. Period. Warmups ingrain technique. Form does not get better with heavier weights.

Watch a master. The video doesn't capture it all, but Eddy Coan is as precise with his lightest warmups as he is with his heaviest sets.
Ed Coan Progression (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UxaJRuTtDY)
"Treat the light weights like the heavy weights, and the heavy weights will go up like the light weights."

The set-up for the lift is as important as the lift. If your set-up is off, lift will be off. (Of course, you do not have to do a dance like I think Chic did on one of his sets...:p;))

Lose the belt.

Shoes. If those are running shoes, they suck for squatting and deadlifting. Go barefoot or find something with a flat hard sole.

Sponge pad. Got to go.

For the squat it looks like you almost pushing off with you toes. You should be driving through the heels. You can practice this by squatting with your toes raised.

what steps should I take to begin correction of posture?

A yoga class or forcing yourself to stretch your hips and hamstrings very frequently would help a lot with your deadlift form.

http://www.exrx.net/Stretches/HipAdductors/SquattingGroin.html

http://www.exrx.net/Stretches/HipAdductors/KneelingGroin.html

With the kneeling groin stretch it is good to work facing a mirror so you can focus on keeping a straight spine while sinking back into the stretch. Also, tilting your pelvis forward and backward while in this position will create a good stretch. Try to spread your knees apart gradually.

A good hamstring stretch would be bending your knees and placing your hands under your feet and alternatingly straightening each leg. Follow this by raising up to a straight back, going for a 90 or less degree bend at the waist and checking the flatness of your back in the mirror.

About two months of stretching 3-4 times a weeks has improved my deadlift form. Being able to start with lower hips means that I can create leverage with a straight back rather than rising up to find a point of leverage with the spine bending as a fulcrum.

New deadlift vid.

Any better this week? It appears my back is a little "less arched," however, it looks like I'm still locking-out my knees too early?

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v664/Thrust/?action=view&current=Deadlift30010-27-07.flv

Thrust,
You need to start retracting on all your big lifts. You've got some sever rounding of the upper back.

You are protracted from the start...work on retracting your shoulders before you start.

That's the first issue I see off top.

T

Is that protective flooring under your rack? If it is I'd think about cutting it away from where you stand as it will absorb the force. The same affect as lifting in running shoes.

For instance if I stand on my scales when I'm on the floor I'm about 194, if I weight myself on my protective flooring I only weight 125. Brilliant if you are feeling fat, but not so good when you are trying to lift a heavy bar.

Thanks for the responses. Did the lifts in the newer video offer any improvement over last week? I'm aware that the arch is still there, and I'm working on the technique, but I'd like to get feedback on any improvment (if I made any) so I can continue progressing toward optimal form.

As long as people are willing to offer suggestions I intend to post videos in this thread each week till I'm able to lift with proper form.

Thanks again.

Have you considered backing the weight down until you can get the upper back in proper position then working back up?

It's hard to correct stuff like this I've found at normal working weights if you are pushing yourself, especially if it's a muscle deficiency that you've worked around for awhile.

I always think of the "proud chest" mental and trying to keep the scapula back when doing deads or olympic pulls at the start. That seems to help me a bit, although at maximal weights I start to get a bit of that thoratic rouding if I'm not careful, too.

This is a full and I do mean full view of the squatting process. It is worth a look to see all 22 videos.

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=C03D688F10C4DE1F

You can learn good form and the videos are quality. Be sure and catch the hack squat

This a really good thread as I just started incorporating dead lifts in my workouts a couple of weeks ago and was wondering about my form. One thing that helped me was to position myself so i could see myself in a mirror to my side as well as in front of me. This enabled me to see the starting position of my back to make sure it wasn't rounded and once the lift was started I could look forward to make sure everything else followed... just a thought...

Oh, and the comment about the shoes is true, I switched from trainers to a pair of super flat pumas that are almost like ballerina slippers and I like it a lot better this way:tucool:

This a really good thread as I just started incorporating dead lifts in my workouts a couple of weeks ago and was wondering about my form. One thing that helped me was to position myself so i could see myself in a mirror to my side as well as in front of me. This enabled me to see the starting position of my back to make sure it wasn't rounded and once the lift was started I could look forward to make sure everything else followed... just a thought...

Oh, and the comment about the shoes is true, I switched from trainers to a pair of super flat pumas that are almost like ballerina slippers and I like it a lot better this way:tucool:

Yup, the flat shoes work great. :tucool:

However, don't deadlift in front of, or anywhere near mirrors. (especially if you are turning your head) It's an accident waiting to happen. :nod:

I know this moreso of a deadlift thread but since squats are being mentioned also. I've just started doing squats but use the smith machine. I now realize my form is horrible but have been researching and have some better ideas for next time. Namely going to free weight squats rather than using the smith machine. My question is...if you're lifting off your heels how do you not fall back with all that weight on your shoulders?

I know this moreso of a deadlift thread but since squats are being mentioned also. I've just started doing squats but use the smith machine. I now realize my form is horrible but have been researching and have some better ideas for next time. Namely going to free weight squats rather than using the smith machine. My question is...if you're lifting off your heels how do you not fall back with all that weight on your shoulders?
When people say drive through your heels, they don't mean to shift all your weight onto your heels. They mean that you should avoid pressing out of your toes because, if you press through the toes, you will automatically flex the ankle and engage primarily the calfs, which is unstable while the knees are also flexed and takes the emphasis off the stronger muscles of the thigh and glutes. If you avoid pressing out of your toes, you will feel the force exert through the heels of your feet, as your entire foot grips solidly at the ground. This is where the cue comes from.

So, you retain balance in the same way that you retain balance just standing around. You do it naturally. If you've only been squatting using a Smith machine, it's very likely that you've not positioned yourself underneath it correctly. Because the bar can only move in one plane, you can place yourself in positions that do not mimic a natural balance, yet still exert force and lift the bar effectively. In a freeweight squat, you will have to position yourself correctly (as far as balance) or else you will fall over -- there's no choice

You hit the nail on the head exactly. With the smith machine the bar only comes down in one plane so my body has to conform to the movement of the bar. Thats exactly what I was trying to convey. So on the upward motion my heels tend to be flexed so that I'm standing on my toes pushing up. Thanks for clearing that up for me chican. If you have any other tips feel free to dispense :)