Hi All,

Recently, I started incorporating some rack pulls into my routine, and while doing them for the first time (following some online guidance), I found the movement very much like an RDL.

I'm sure there are some subtle and maybe not so subtle differences in these movements, and I wondered if someone had some tips or links that would help me make sure my form is sound here.


Thanks,

Pete

How low are you setting the pins in the rack and how low do you go with an RDL?

From what I understand, a rack pull is more like the top portion of a deadlift and uses mostly lower back. An RDL on the other hand uses a lot more hamstring.

From what I understand, a rack pull is more like the top portion of a deadlift and uses mostly lower back. An RDL on the other hand uses a lot more hamstring.

I'd go along with this. The top portion of the deadlift should also use a lot of glutes/hips as well (if you think about how you squeeze the glutes to push the hips through at the end of a deadlift).

How low are you setting the pins in the rack and how low do you go with an RDL?

From what I understand, a rack pull is more like the top portion of a deadlift and uses mostly lower back. An RDL on the other hand uses a lot more hamstring.

I set my pins so that the bar rests just below my knees on the rack pull. My RDL probably sees a similar bottom point.

I'm thinking rack pull involves standing up more than an RDL does?

P

I'm thinking rack pull involves standing up more than an RDL does?

P

by this i mean in the RDL, the hips are more vertically stable than they are in the rack pull, where there is likely some movement in the vertical plane as you "stand up"

?

The RDL and the rack pull are really different things, even though they can look similar.

You should normally use a weight above what you can use for full deadlift in the rack pull. That won't normally make sense for RDLs. That's really the big difference.

The RDL and the rack pull are really different things, even though they can look similar.

You should normally use a weight above what you can use for full deadlift in the rack pull. That won't normally make sense for RDLs. That's really the big difference.

Thanks Zen.

I do actually use more weight on the rack pull. I suppose I'm looking for some form tips, or good videos to try and highlight the difference. I'll keep youtube surfing ;-)

P

I set my pins so that the bar rests just below my knees on the rack pull. My RDL probably sees a similar bottom point.

I'm thinking rack pull involves standing up more than an RDL does?

P
Yes.

If the bar is just below knee height, on a RDL, your torso should be inclined slightly above horizontal (depending on your skeleton's geometry and the width of your grip) with the hips pushed all the way back and relatively little bend in the knees. During a deadlift, on the other hand, at that position, your torso is going to be fairly upright with your knees bent and your hips brought in as much as possible -- this is what you want to emulate for the rack pull. The two movements are pretty different, even barring that the rack pull is normally going to use weights that are well in excess of what you can RDL.

If the bar is just below knee height, on a RDL, your torso should be inclined slightly above horizontal (depending on your skeleton's geometry and the width of your grip) with the hips pushed all the way back and relatively little bend in the knees. During a deadlift, on the other hand, at that position, your torso is going to be fairly upright with your knees bent and your hips brought in as much as possible -- this is what you want to emulate for the rack pull.

Doesn't that depend a whole lot on what sort of deadlift he pulls? Some guys have almost no knee bend even in their conventional deads.

Doesn't that depend a whole lot on what sort of deadlift he pulls? Some guys have almost no knee bend even in their conventional deads.
Who's a guy that has almost no knee bend in his conventional deadlift? There's certainly people who lock out the knees pretty fast and rely on back and hip strength to finish getting the weight up, but I haven't seen any that start with almost no knee bend -- it's just not advantageous to do that.

You're right that it is individual though. I'm just saying that those are the general differences between the movement of a rack pull and a RDL, like if you were looking at two "ideal" diagrams in a textbook. Even if you end up being one of those guys that have "almost no knee bend," the movements still have those points of difference, even if some are smaller and others larger.

If you want to have a big conventional deadlift, you don't go and RDL the weight up -- you conventional it up. So, unless you're doing a RDL rack pull, you want that rack pull to emulate your conventional as much as possible. This means, relative to your RDL, you're going to have more knee bend, that torso is going to be more upright, and those hips are going to be more underneath you.

Who's a guy that has almost no knee bend in his conventional deadlift?

This guy for one:

-1MgbRluFGQ

This guy for one:
I forgot about him. That's not how I advocate performing and, moreover, teaching a conventional deadlift and there are quite a few sources that would agree. You see a couple top powerlifters pulling at meets in a manner similar to him (though he's the most exaggerated that I've seen), but you also see a lot of them pulling along more conventional lines. It works for him, but, if the original poster and, likely, no one on this forum is pulling like that, it makes no sense to describe how to do a rack pull based on that form.

Besides, for all we know, he may do his lighter deadlifts and rack pulls in a more "standard" way.

Perfect form on deadlifts will differ from person to person. I do them like the guy zen put up in the video. In comp I go more sumo. If I use more quads I have a tendency to hurt my lower back. I've never gotten injured seriously with deadlifts. You've go to find your niche and sweet spot, and just lift. Yes, there are certain guidelines to follow in regards to form, but it boils down to the individual's mechanics. Everyone also puts the evil spell on ATG squats and knee health, but my knees have actually gotten stronger going below P. Once I feel pain and impending injury, is when I will make adjustments. That should be the case for every exercise. People keep doing movements which cause them pain until a major injury occurs. Why? :confused:

Perfect form on deadlifts will differ from person to person. I do them like the guy zen put up in the video. In comp I go more sumo. If I use more quads I have a tendency to hurt my lower back. I've never gotten injured seriously with deadlifts. You've go to find your niche and sweet spot, and just lift. Yes, there are certain guidelines to follow in regards to form, but it boils down to the individual's mechanics. Everyone also puts the evil spell on ATG squats and knee health, but my knees have actually gotten stronger going below P. Once I feel pain and impending injury, is when I will make adjustments. That should be the case for every exercise. People keep doing movements which cause them pain until a major injury occurs. Why? :confused:
But, how do you do a rack pull? :confused: :lol:

Do you do a RDL/SLDL to get the weight up or do you do something that tries to mimic your deadlift? That's all I've been trying to say, though I realize that, as a bodybuilder, your purpose for doing a rack pull may be different than someone interested in his total.

But, how do you do a rack pull? :confused: :lol:

Do you do a RDL/SLDL to get the weight up or do you do something that tries to mimic your deadlift? That's all I've been trying to say, though I realize that, as a bodybuilder, your purpose for doing a rack pull may be different than someone interested in his total.

OK, you've lost me chic :lol:

As a bodybuilder, I do deadlifts....not rack pulls. Can't remember the last time I did rack pulls.

OK, you've lost me chic :lol:

As a bodybuilder, I do deadlifts....not rack pulls. Can't remember the last time I did rack pulls.
:lol: :doh: :tu:

Yes.

If the bar is just below knee height, on a RDL, your torso should be inclined slightly above horizontal (depending on your skeleton's geometry and the width of your grip) with the hips pushed all the way back and relatively little bend in the knees. During a deadlift, on the other hand, at that position, your torso is going to be fairly upright with your knees bent and your hips brought in as much as possible -- this is what you want to emulate for the rack pull. The two movements are pretty different, even barring that the rack pull is normally going to use weights that are well in excess of what you can RDL.

Thanks Chic.. this is helpful.

P

Not a big fan of rack pulls, especially from knee height, myself. I've seen a few deadlifts get lost above the knee, but sticking point for most seems to be floor to mid-shin. Once or twice a month, with the pins set mid-shin or so the plates are 2" off the floor will probably provide most carryover. If you're sticking above the knee, or your lockout is the weak point, I think you'll get better results with speed pulls or pulls against bands. Most lockout problems, in fact most sticking point problems, can be solved with greater acceleration.

Well, that and pure fucking aggression.:mad::evil:

Rack pulls for size, thickness, etc. I think are poor substitutes for deadlifts and explosive pulls.

(Using rack pulls as part of a progressive scheme may be worthwhile for periods...Bob Peoples used to do a deadlift routine similar to Paul Anderson's squat routine. (Paul Anderson would dig a hole, place a bar over the hole, and do partial squats. He'd fill the hole in day by day until he was full squatting the weight.) Peoples, who "discovered" Anderson and I suppose you could say mentored him in his early years, used to deadlift standing in a hole or from pins, and would gradually fill in the hole or lower the pins until he was doing a full deadlift with what he had previously only partialled.)

People keep doing movements which cause them pain until a major injury occurs. Why? :confused:

Because our trainers like curls even if we don't! :mad:

But yeah I think the deadlift is one of those lifts where everyone ends up with their own flavor.

And it can depend on the weight and reps. I find that it's tough for me to use much leg unless there is enough weight, so sometimes for repping things I end up just straight legging everything. Today I did quite a lot of deads, and I was having grip problems (we were working on grip at the end by doing light pulls for reps). I found that by snatch gripping them I could keep the grip lasting longer because the side force on the hands was helpful. I would be surprised if that helped me at heavier weights.