Hi Guys, Im currently cutting at around 24-2500CAL per day.

(more info in my october challenge/journal - see sig)

On monday/wed/friday. I can only make it to the gym in the morning to perform cardio and my weight training for the day, As I work mid morning through till quite late, the gym is closed when ive finished work and im usually completely exhausted and ready for bed anyway.

So currently ive been arriving at the gym at 6:30AM straight from bed, performing my fasted cardio for half hour, then training weights for 30 - 45 mins and getting home around 8:15AM for meal 1.

The whole process is fasted whilst cutting, no protein shakes or anything before or after training. Infact im only having 1 per day before bed at the moment.

However my main concern is lifting weights and cardio so close together, as before I used to do fasted AM cardio and train weights after work. Although since a job change, this isnt possible anymore.

What is everyone's opinion on this, is there anything extra I can do to obtain better results with my current schedule? Should I lift first and then do my cardio?

Do people usually train cardio and weights seperatly because its beneficial or does it come down to personal preferance?

-Josh

Do people usually train cardio and weights seperatly because its beneficial or does it come down to personal preferance?
It's kind of a little bit of both if you ask me. Some would say one way is beneficial, others would say another way is beneficial, and I think personal preference plays a role in most things anyway, in general.

This is what I would probably do if I had your schedule and wanted to lift weights M/W/F and perform cardio more often:

IDEAL SCENARIO
M/W/F:
-Wake up, drink protein+oatmeal shake.
-Go to gym, lift weights, no cardio on these days.
-Come home, eat post-training meal.

T/T/Sat (Sat optional):
-Wake up, drink protein+oatmeal shake.
-Go to gym, do high-intensity cardio.
-Come home, eat post-training meal.

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ANOTHER OPTION (you might prefer this one)
M/W/F:
-Wake up, drink protein+oatmeal shake.
-Go to gym, lift weights followed by 25-40 minutes moderate/low intensity cardio.
-Come home, eat post-training meal.

You could also perform high-intensity cardio (or low/moderate intensity) on non-weightlifting days with this option, but I would start out slow and increase it as needed over time. I typically like to start out with the least amount of cardio that's necessary and add it in as needed over time.

---

But to answer your question specifically, yes, I would rather do cardio after weights. I know plenty of people who do cardio first and weights after, but I just like doing the weights first when I am fresh and have more intensity to devote to the weightlifting. For me this works best. Others I know say that the cardio before weights sometimes helps wake them up and get their blood going and it actually helps them perform better with their weightlifting routine. When I try to do this I end up feeling a bit sluggish and less intense by the time I get to the weights. So, as you mentioned and I think you're on to something, a lot of it boils down to personal preference.

Also, what I would try to do is get in a meal before training. This too is a preference issue. I find my intensity to be literally twice as good when I train non-fasted, and my results are always much better over time when I keep fasted training (weights and cardio) out of my routine. Still, again, others feel different. I know a few very respected members of this forum who see excellent results training first thing in the morning without eating a meal beforehand.

With all issues, if you're getting results then keep going. :)

Thanks for the insight Chris, I also forgot to mention I am doing PM cardio on Tuesday and Thursdays, so this brings me up to 5 sessions per week. However the cardio only days are usually pretty heavy duty, I like to run flat out till im exhausted for 30 mins.

I'll have to have a think about this, im definatly keen to try weights first and low intensity cardio after that tomorrow morning for 25-30 mins. I'm only about 1.5 weeks into my summer cut, so far ive lost 5lbs. More than likely all water weight, but hard to speak of results so early into the program.

I just posted this up as it was always a theory I have been interested in, and you see many hardcore cardio activists trolling the boards of BB.com and the like preaching they ALWAYS have 6 hours rest between lifting and cadio etc.

I just want to avoid catabolising (sp?) muscle since im already on a calorie deficit. Obviously ill loose a little bit, as it goes with cutting. Looking to keep it to a minimum though.

-Josh

I just want to avoid catabolising (sp?) muscle since im already on a calorie deficit. Obviously ill loose a little bit, as it goes with cutting. Looking to keep it to a minimum though.

-Josh

Replace the protein shake before bed with whole food for starters.

Consume BCAA + a small amount of protein before or after the fasted cardio, before hitting the weights. Personally I'd go with 1/4-1/2 cup cottage cheese +5-10g BCAA (or 2-5g Leucine (cheaper) ).

You'll get some fast absorption + anti-catabolic properties. Even just 5-10g of protein is going to be much, much better than none at all.

With low intensity cardio (say brisk walk, rather than running) and as a beginner I think separating lifting and cardio is less important. If you were doing moderate to high intensity cardio, I would definitely separate them. For instance, if you can still run after lifting, IMO you should be lifting harder. If you lift after running then you're taking away from the lifting.

I was and still am in a similar boat as you schedule wise.
There are several days of the week when I know i'll be getting off work after 10-11pm or not getting off until the next day....on these days I did the following:

3:00am - get up, drink coffee, take green tea extract, Read/pack
3:45am - At the gym (or outside) - run for 45-50mins (moderate intensity) or 20-30mins of high intensity/intervals
4:30am - Lift for 45-60mins

Some days I would drink protein shake before (but always after). I also took/take BCAA 10-15g before and after.

I also switched it around and did lifting before cardio also...whatever i felt like.

Unless you're an elite bodybuilder/athelete, I wouldn't worry about catabolism, etc. Just work out HARD!

Good luck!

From what I've read, I believe if you do your cardio first you will not build muscle but will burn cals, if you do lifting first you will build more than burn. I THINK:tu:

Well im not eating enough to build any muscle anyway as im cutting, However im trying to avoid burning off LBM. I'll throw in a shake and some carbs to keep me burning and get the metabolism going.

GTX - How do you do your protein+ oats shakes, just typical ammount of protein and a spoon full of raw oats + milk or water?

GTX - How do you do your protein+ oats shakes, just typical ammount of protein and a spoon full of raw oats + milk or water?
Well, on the amounts that all depends on you I think. :) Goals, current physique, what you'll be doing at the gym, what the rest of the diet looks like, etc. etc. etc.

As far as preparing it, I add the oats to a coffee bean grinder and grind them up really, really fine. Then I pour water and/or milk into a shaker bottle (and I just use the cheap ones from DPS or Bodybuilding.com). Then add the ground oats to the shaker. Then add the protein powder. Add grate, close lid, shake, drink. :)

Tip: about 5-10 minutes before you make the shake, go ahead and add the milk/water to the shaker and stick it in the freezer. Then when you dump the oats/protein in there and shake it up it'll be super cold and possibly a little icy. For some reason this makes it better to me. :D

Ive attatched my diet for reference.

The shake sounds really awesome Chris, you had my mouth watering as I was reading it! Current diet and goals are to cut up, dropping 1.5 - 2LBS per week. I have my 5x 30min cardio sessions from monday to friday on incline treadmill, moderate to high intensity. Training wise im training compound lifts on Monday/Wednesday & Fridays.

I think the ingredients of an addition shake will push me over a bit, so I will have alter my current diet to accomodate for it. Unless these are specifically for lifting days only, not sure weather I should add the shake to my lifting days whilst eating my current scheduled diet, or reshape the whole thing to try and fit the additional shake in keeping the basis around 2500CALS every day.

Thanks for the info Chris, I will have to go coffee bean grinder shopping!

-Josh

Use choclate protein powder add skim milk and a teaspoon of JELLO fat free sugar free pudding, splenda and ice and blend. Tastes like a butterfinger !!!

Interesting theory, I think i'll give chris' shake a go as a pre workout shake, should be fine to add to the diet, given the intensity of current training and cardio all in one burst.