have you noticed this as well?

Countless examples...

I think it means they are not often asking the right questions ;)

Once again, Lou Schuler has a good write up (http://www.malepatternfitness.com/story/2007/9/17/94428/0226) on the subject.

"I am just a poor boy, nobody loves me! He's just a poor boy, from a poor family!" :lol:

This is a reference to the Queen song right?

ahh...but refusing to accept this fact sure is easier than accepting it and having to just work harder to achieve a goal. And so...the overanalyzing researchers of our fitness society were born:D

The more I analyze the more confused I get.
What I like to do is eat a lotta food, lift a lotta weight.

Works for me, and keeps me happy :D

Oh, it matters.

It matters what kinds of food you like. It matters what relative importance you place on physical health, mental health, and aesthetics. It matters what your appetite and personality is. Work in favor of all of those things instead of against them.

Oh, it matters.

It matters what kinds of food you like. It matters what relative importance you place on physical health, mental health, and aesthetics. It matters what your appetite and personality is. Work in favor of all of those things instead of against them.

I'm talking about microanalysis of macros/foods, etc. not leading a generally healthy lifestyle.

IE GI, pwo absorption speed, macro separation, meals per day, etc.

I'm talking about microanalysis of macros/foods, etc. not leading a generally healthy lifestyle.

IE GI, pwo absorption speed, macro separation, meals per day, etc.

I agree 100%.

I'm talking about microanalysis of macros/foods, etc. not leading a generally healthy lifestyle.

IE GI, pwo absorption speed, macro separation, meals per day, etc.
All excellence involves discipline and tenacity of purpose. - John W. Gardner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_W._Gardner)

-R

All excellence involves discipline and tenacity of purpose. - John W. Gardner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_W._Gardner)

-R

I agree.

Choose what your definition of excellence is, then do all that you need to do to reach that goal.

Your definition is probably different than mine. It should be.

Here's an example, directed from one of the links from the article MannishBoy linked:

Healthy nonsmokers, might add 3 days to 3 months to their life by shifting their diet to one where only 10% of their calories came from saturated fat as recommended. "Although there are undoubtedly persons who would choose to participate in a lifelong regimen of dietary change to achieve results of this magnitude, we suspect that some might not,"

In the pursuit of excellence, limiting saturated fat might be important to some people. (For increased longevity, or possibly for potentially more attractive body composition.)

But to other people with different priorities, the ability to enjoy a great steak, and the freedom to eat out at fast food restaurants more often might further their pursuit of excellence within their interpersonal relationships, career-related advancement. It might also be easier on their financial situation, and avoid a significant amount of stress and inconvenience of managing a restrictive nutrition plan.

Eliminating french fries, sausages, bacon, cheese, butter, mayo, and other items from my diet, cutting back on sugar and refined grains, and adding more fish, vegetables, and fruit wasn't hard for me, and I think their health benefits will improve my situation. But there are things that I'm not ready to sacrifice. I don't care that much that chocolate cake is really not healthy for my body; I'm still going to eat it once in a while. I really like the taste of it, and it does incredible things to my mood and outlook. :drool:

And I don't care that if I increased my protein consumption to 40% of my calories, I might enhance my athletic performance or more easily attain a perfect physique. I know what I'm willing to trade for those things, and I know how far I can deviate from ideal recommendations to achieve levels that would still fall under my personal definition of excellence.

I agree.

Choose what your definition of excellence is, then do all that you need to do to reach that goal.

Your definition is probably different than mine. It should be.

You are just too deep. Both you and Bluestreak. Your posts on this thread is beyond my intellects. Hence, the reason why I can never converse with you guys down in the Wasteland :o

One day I hope to aspire to your levels of genius. :bow:
I truly mean that guava, with all seriousness.

:blank:

You are just too deep. Both you and Bluestreak. Your posts on this thread is beyond my intellects. Hence, the reason why I can never converse with you guys down in the Wasteland :o

The WL isn't "deep" as in intellectual, it's "deep" as in a cesspool :D

The WL isn't "deep" as in intellectual, it's "deep" as in a cesspool :D

The WL = gay jokes, boobies and really boring posts by zen & chico about maths.

You are just too deep. Both you and Bluestreak. Your posts on this thread is beyond my intellects. Hence, the reason why I can never converse with you guys down in the Wasteland :o

One day I hope to aspire to your levels of genius. :bow:
I truly mean that guava, with all seriousness.

:blank:
Clearly, sir, you don't know me very well! Don't confuse my command of the English language with my level of maturity. I am just as quick to giggle like a teenage boy at a solid fart as I am at quoting historical figures. Nor have you seen me just shy of drinking one-too-many at the cheat meals.

Actually, I respect your example more than you know.

As for the Wasteland... that's more like like slumming it to me. Sometimes when I'm down there, I can feel my brain cells popping like bubble wrap. Like a motorist passing a traffic accident, I find myself unable to look away... :D

To get back on topic, I read a lot of biographies of successful men & women in history, and I try to take away from their lives and successes good ways of improving my own habits and lines of thought.

What Mr. Gardner alludes to in the above statement is that not only does success require a detailed mind, it requires a persistent one. I don't agree at all with the original post in this thread which alludes to the fact that detail isn't required for success. In my never humble opinion, to me, detail is paramount to success, but that's my personality. I believe nothing is more important than having empirical data as detailed as a person can stand to collect about their bodies, their nutrition, and their exercise habits. Without, how do you ever know (A) when you were most successful, and (B) what you did to create that success?

I.e., never scrimp on the detail. The more you know, the more armed you are for success in the future.

-R

The WL isn't "deep" as in intellectual, it's "deep" as in a cesspool :D

:o:o:o

Well now, that speaks volumes about my intellectual capacities. I've had things in reverse all this time! :(

:rolleyes:

In the pursuit of excellence, limiting saturated fat might be important to some people. (For increased longevity, or possibly for potentially more attractive body composition.)

But to other people with different priorities, the ability to enjoy a great steak, and the freedom to eat out at fast food restaurants more often might further their pursuit of excellence within their interpersonal relationships, career-related advancement. It might also be easier on their financial situation, and avoid a significant amount of stress and inconvenience of managing a restrictive nutrition plan.

Eliminating french fries, sausages, bacon, cheese, butter, mayo, and other items from my diet, cutting back on sugar and refined grains, and adding more fish, vegetables, and fruit wasn't hard for me, and I think their health benefits will improve my situation. But there are things that I'm not ready to sacrifice. I don't care that much that chocolate cake is really not healthy for my body; I'm still going to eat it once in a while. I really like the taste of it, and it does incredible things to my mood and outlook. :drool:

And I don't care that if I increased my protein consumption to 40% of my calories, I might enhance my athletic performance or more easily attain a perfect physique. I know what I'm willing to trade for those things, and I know how far I can deviate from ideal recommendations to achieve levels that would still fall under my personal definition of excellence.
We might be getting a bit off topic, but I think this is still important and interesting. I always liked this quote from Alan Aragon's website, and Guava I think you'll like it.

I am very weird; I can sort of tune out cravings and still perform well, ignoring a bland diet or the same things day in and day out. But not everyone is like that. If you were to choose between two scenarios:

1) "Perfect" diet (clean, never cheating, zero condiments, perfectly structured and exactly the same every day, etc.), but decreased performance in the gym and a bad mood all the time, or

2) "Less than perfect" diet (allowing for that piece of cake once or twice a week, adding a tablespoon or two of mayo once in a while, opting for a couple squirts of ketchup here and there, sometimes opting for diet soda over water - and yes within reason for all of these [we're not talking about cheating every day]), but increased performance in the gym and elevated mood levels...

I think scenario 2 is much better.

Anyway here is that quote:

If I may cite my own advice given at a recent seminar, it was in response to the question of what I believe is effective but can't be proven. I sincerely believe that athletes will perform and transform better by sticking strictly to foods they personally like the taste of. Even better, stick to foods you LOVE the taste of, and this includes traditionally "unclean" stuff. Food affects mood, mood affects ergogenesis, and ergogenesis affects body composition. If you walk around dragging your ass through the day because you're dreading the next meal, you're ultimately worse off than the guy who's eating everything he likes (in amounts within the framework of the goal), and translating that psychosomatic energy into increased training power output.

2) "Less than perfect" diet (allowing for that piece of cake once or twice a week, adding a tablespoon or two of mayo once in a while, opting for a couple squirts of ketchup here and there, sometimes opting for diet soda over water - and yes within reason for all of these [we're not talking about cheating every day]), but increased performance in the gym and elevated mood levels...

I think scenario 2 is much better.


I don't think I could have started this way. I did not have the discipline. I had to be super strict before I could learn to let go a bit. If I did this at the start then I would have probably had one looong cheat weak. That's me thought. If people know when to stop then it doesn't need to be perfect.

Once you get pretty lean is it easier to do option 2 and keep at that same level? Cheat meal 2x or 3x a week alright?

Once you get pretty lean is it easier to do option 2 and keep at that same level? Cheat meal 2x or 3x a week alright?

Depends on the person and what you consider a 'cheat' meal.

If a cheat is a T-bone steak and sweet potato outside of the 'workout window', maybe some sauce you wouldn't normally eat + extra fruit in your yogurt (or something reasonable) for desert, then certainly. (well you get the idea anyway).

If a cheat meal is a whole pizza, packet of oreos and pie with ice cream, probably not.

Personally I like to cheat a little often. But my cheats are small. I often add a bit of sauce here and there or somthing else not considered 'clean' - I really don't consider that a cheat.

Then occasionally when my wife and I get a babysitter, I go out for a meal. But even these are usually good quality, not excessive calorie meals.

Once every 2-3 months Ill have a blowout and eat a restaurant meal + some large dessert. I can't eat a lot of salt and don't like fast food, pizza and stuff like that anyway, so that helps keep most of the cheats 'quality' and not stupid calories (I really can't easily eat more than 3500kcal/day anyway).

Cheat meal 2x or 3x a week alright?
It wouldn't really be a cheat meal. I probably have chocolate a couple of times a week, but never in huge quantities. If you're "cheating" more often, they obviously have to be smaller cheats.

My diet has only ever been perfect for a maximum of maybe one quarter of the days since I've become a member, but that's what made it so easy for me to stick with it (my relaxed idea of healthy fitness) for years. I'm not sure if it's as easy to be consistent for the people who are so very strict with their diet, though I can think of a few members who've done extremely well that way.

I think that's part of the thing thing that distinguishes scenario 1 from scenario 2. The person in scenario 2 will have an easier time of it should an unexpected obstacle come up, because it would more likely lead to a gradual slide away from regular dietary habits, instead of an "off the wagon" type splat. The person in scenario 1 needs to rededicate themselves each day, and always keep their goals firmly envisioned.

Bluestreak (Quote)...." I can feel my brain cells popping like bubble-wrap".

How Kafka-esque!!...mind If I use that in one of my songs? :lol:

Diet for me is about looking for the "edge" in bodybuilding.

I don't agree with Aragon.

I think you should force yourself to eat things you don't like if they will benefit you.

We're never as good when left to our own devices as we are when under the forced tutelage of someone who knows how to get the best out of us.

A lot of great footballl coaches were like that. Vince Lombardi for one.

The right trainer can make or break a gifted boxer.

Possibly this is the one of the drawbacks of working out at home.

Even with all the applied accumulated self-knowledge, there is someone out there who can get me better results for my body than I can alone.

I think this is true of diet as well. By ourselves we will usually opt for food that we like ....regardless of how good it is for us.

A guy like Swole could probably have me looking 5 times better than I do now..but I know I'd have to make some changes that at first might seem strange.

We like to be "good to ourselves". But those with a really strong constitution will get past the "comfort-zone" ideology in order to garner greater rewards.

I like to see myself as one of those 'strong" people. But just about every day I prove otherwise to myself at some point on the menu.

Oh well....I'll keep at it...:cool: