Several years ago, I reached an important landmark when I started to see my obesity as something unnecessary and redundant. Before then, being fat was just part of my "shape" - annoying, but intrinsic. That held me back. But suddenly I perceived my excess body fat as if it were a garment beneath my skin, a very inappropriate garment to be wearing 24/7, and that psychological shift enabled me to see my obesity as something that could be healthily remedied.

I'm in an analogous position now with regard to my postural flaws. I don't see my bad posture as being simply an unfortunate body shape, instead I see my underlying muscle imbalances as the cause of a distortion that I don't need to have. I now know that I really can be straightened out and it's an exciting thought.

That truly is the best perspective to have about your body, philph. Acknowledging that it is a vessel means that you can fine tune it objectively. It is separate from you and not daunting as a result of that viewpoint.

I am doing the exact same thing as you in regards to posture. I recently decided to put my perfectionist tendencies towards fixing my "computer guy" slouch. I just started taking a yoga class and doing a lot of additional stretching at home as well as being a LOT more conscious of how I carry myself walking, standing, and sitting. Funny thing is, I was actually looking on this forum for any posts about posture because I wanted to ask a question. Fancy seeing this post here!

On topic: What muscles play a part in posture when seated on the ground with your legs directly in front of you?

The average person looks like this with their torso at a right angle to their outstretched legs:

|__

While my back curves and my pelvis cannot be tilted forward in this position. My posture sitting with legs outstretched looks like:

(__

*Note: I have terrific hamstring flexibility and can put my hands under my feet with straight legs. I suppose it could still be tightness in the hamstrings though...

I have tried body weight good morning type stretching among MANY other things but I cant seem to make my posture look any better than that even at the end of an intensive stretching session. I'd prefer weight exercises but any stretches or other suggestions would be much appreciated. I've read tons of articles but I just don't feel like a lot of the prescriptions out there directly address this issue.

My physio has treated me for bad posture only once... But compliments me on my posture every time i see him.

I too had a rounded back, which was put down to my rounded shoulders pulling my back out. Basically, a imbalance in pectorals will in some cases pull the shoulders forwards. Making your shoulders come forward and rounding the arch in your back.

I found concentrating on just consciously pushing my shoulders back into line with my neck helped a great deal, as well as concentrating on some chest stretches for a short time. Although nothing helped more then just the conscious effort in moving my shoulders to where they should be.

When I had my first remedial massage session a few weeks ago, there was a brief stage partway through the session when the therapist had manipulated one shoulder but not yet started on the other one. If I had not seen the big discrepancy in shoulder positions in the mirror with my own eyes, I would not have believed it was possible.

Perhaps chiropractic help may be useful. I thought posture was one of those things that fixed itself if you trained. Worked for me :)

Some years ago, I took a continuing ed course that brought me great humility. I had been a chiropractor and massage therapist in private practice for 10 and 15 years respectively. I believe in both. But this information pushed me over the top in my vision of the human body.

You are right, deep tissue work (massage) can change things alot. It's great for breaking up adhesions, and greating muscles that feel, look, and work much better. The things you saw in the mirror are things I get to see every day. I just get to expect them, but it's very exciting for people like you to see that. It's a great start.

As suggested, Chiropractic is kind of cool. It's great at breaking up the adhesions (between any 2 joint sufaces) the massage therapist cannot get to. They work very well together. I personally think that one without the other is only half as good as it is with. Meaning if you are to get 100% of the max help you could get using those 2 tools. If you do both you'll get the most. If you do Chiro only, you will get about 25% of the impact of the benefit the whole deal. And 50% if you use it with Massage. Likewise- massage only will give you about 25% of the gain when you could get 50% by doing it with it's good friend and neigbor chiropractic adjustments.

People who just do one or the other will get better, but not as fast and not as completely. Your choice, I'm just telling it like I see it.

In terms of posture, though, these tools leave out some very important things. First, you need to strengthen, shorten and tighten muscles that are weak, loose, and underdeveloped. Concurrently, you need to stretch those that are tight and over worked and over used.

For instance, I do 1000 crunches/abs when I go to the gym. Do I do 1000 lateral flexion exercises (on the floor, with a cable or sideways on the hyperextension bench?) NO, I do not. Those exercises are much more difficult, carry more weight, so I would not need to do as many. BUT- I would do 3 sets of 25-50 on each side of those.

And- do I do 1000 extensions on the hyperextension bench? No... but I do 4 sets 25 with a plate held to my chest. More weight, less reps.

(____ and L____ could be changed with what I have said above...


Most people severly over train their chest relative to their back... their pushing muscles relative to their pulling. This leads to back problems, internal rotation of the humoral head, shoulder impingement, etc.


I also take into account everything I do outside the gym. I work on people all day. Pushing on them gives me a bunch of pec, anterior delt and tricep work. Therefore, I very seldom do much with those in the gym. Maybe 4 sets of each. But, I do try to compensate for my sins at work by working back, external rotators (of the humerous) rhomboids, posterior delts, lats, biceps. I might do 6-8 sets of each of these: lat pulls, seated cables, bent over rows... and 4-6 sets of: back flies, external rotation of humoral head with a waist height cable with 90* bend at elbow, and bicep curls.

If you think sitting at the computer all day doesn't let your pecs shorten and tighten, and your back and posterior delts become weaker and longer, then we need to talk. What you do all day is not that much different in it's results on your body than what I do...

Legs: everything we do all day uses quads- and expecially lateral quads: wlaking, running, going up and down stairs, cycling, almost anything! The only things that work the hamstrings well are sprinting and hamstring specific exercises.

If I go to the gym and do leg press, leg extensions, stiff and hamstring curls, and do them evenly, I have furthered this imbalance. I do 8 sets of leg press (in a position that increases the load on the hams), 4 sets of leg extansions, 8 sets of hamstring curls and 8 sets of stiff legged dead lifts. Plus the extensions on the hyperextension bench.

Then there is stretch. I said stretch the shortened muscles. Lengthen those. Stretch the pecs more than you do the back. stretch the internal rotators of the humoral head, and open up that area.

I started training for balance and function after that seminar, and have not had an injury since. Read from his web site: Geoff Gluckman- Muscle Balance and Function. (http://www.musclebalancefunction.com/main.htm) He really uses stretching and yoga-ish stuff, and I have taken it to the gym... but it all works really well..

:gl:
This guy knows some incredible things...

Hi Dr.Jen, many thanks for your response. By coincidence, I was talking just today with my trainer about the benefits of treating adhesions. With his enthusiasm and, now, your perspective, I'm starting to see that maybe this is an additional tool that I could consider adding.

I'd already come to the conclusion that I'm not going to get far in fixing my posture without the necessary stretching. Now when I catch a glimpse of my reflection when I'm walking along the street, for instance, I can visualise plainly what has to be done with my hip flexors, and I don't think it's going to be a nap on the beach somehow... ::eek::

Thanks also for the link, which I am going to take a good look at later tonight when I do my usual evening browsing and reading.

Philph, look into foam rolling...

http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=04-021-training
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1259323
http://www.power-systems.com/news/01_26_06.aspx?src=RSS
http://www.performbetter.com/catalog/assets/Exercisesheets/PDF/FoamRoller.pdf