Hey,

I was just wondering what should I be doing if I would like to stay in my current weight class and lose about 5% body fat. Right now I am estimating I am around 15-16% BF. Weight is between 160-164.

Thanks.

Training hard and eating right. Maybe you can make your question a little more specific as your original post is a little broad.

I think he is saying he wants to tone up and weight train regularly without eventually putting on muscle poundage.

I asked a similar question when I joined the board. If you are lucky enough to have the ability to build muscle how do you keep at it without gaining mass. Don't increase the weight? More Cardio?

I think he is saying he wants to tone up and weight train regularly without eventually putting on muscle poundage.

I asked a similar question when I joined the board. If you are lucky enough to have the ability to build muscle how do you keep at it without gaining mass. Don't increase the weight? More Cardio?

What does "toneup" mean? I'm yearning for the definition of this term now going on 30 years :confused:

Mass is muscle. The more lean mass you accrue, the lower your bodyfat becomes. Hence the term - recomposition.

I can use myself as an example. When I first began weight training years and years ago, I was around 125 lbs at 12% bodyfat standing 5'9" tall. At present I am still 5'9" but weigh 160 lbs at 5-7% bodyfat year round. My squat and deadlift have increased by over 250 lbs since my humble beginnings.

How was this incredible, phenomenal, superhuman, never-before-achieved-by-anyone effort accomplished??? :D

Diet and heavy training.

:doh:

What does "toneup" mean? I'm yearning for the definition of this term now going on 30 years :confused:

Mass is muscle. The more lean mass you accrue, the lower your bodyfat becomes. Hence the term - recomposition.

I can use myself as an example. When I first began weight training years and years ago, I was around 125 lbs at 12% bodyfat standing 5'9" tall. At present I am still 5'9" but weigh 160 lbs at 5-7% bodyfat year round. My squat and deadlift have increased by over 250 lbs since my humble beginnings.

How was this incredible, phenomenal, superhuman, never-before-achieved-by-anyone effort accomplished??? :D

Diet and heavy training.

:doh:

So you're talking about a slow controlled bulk right? Because if your gaining the same amount of fat as you are muscle than your not really leaning out.

For example:
Starting weight: 160
LBM:144
BF: 10 percent

Couple of week later: 170
10 pound gain, 5lbs LBM + 5lbs fat
LBM: 149
BF: 12.35 percent

I think it's hard for the average joe to right away find the right amount of food and the right amount of macros, with the perfect PWO drink to achieve this. That or I'm making things more difficult than they need to be.

So you're talking about a slow controlled bulk right? Because if your gaining the same amount of fat as you are muscle than your not really leaning out.

For example:
Starting weight: 160
LBM:144
BF: 10 percent

Couple of week later: 170
10 pound gain, 5lbs LBM + 5lbs fat
LBM: 149
BF: 12.35 percent

I think it's hard for the average joe to right away find the right amount of food and the right amount of macros, with the perfect PWO drink to achieve this. That or I'm making things more difficult than they need to be.

No, I'm not talking about a slow controlled bulk. Personally, I've never consciously done one since I was always pre-occupied with dieting down for shows. I'll admit that I've competed waaaaay to often in my career :rolleyes:

Average Joe? I'm probably more of an average Joe than most people here. It took about three or four years for me to see any sprinklings of success. So, again "no", I didn't find the right amount of food and the right macro's right away. Who really achieves this anyway? I'm still trying myself.

Perfect PWO drink? LOL, well I think I really might be doing things wrong since I almost never have one.

Too many people are searching for quick fixes, not willing to employ any kind of consistancy into their nutrition and training.

Since the OP hasn't come back to explain his question more intricately, I cannot voice any other type of opinion.

Are you making things more difficult than they need to be? Possibly :)

It goes back to my previous post, and what goonie touched upon - hard consistant training and even harder dieting.

Different people make improvements with different specifications. Different macros. combining carbs, protein, and fat. Separating fats. Low reps, high volume, carb only PWO shake, no PWO shake. Full body routines, working out a different part everyday.There is a wealth of info out there and I don't think that it should be at odds with what everyone is doing some people may just be more comfortable with another philosophy.

What did you mean by:

Mass is muscle. The more lean mass you accrue, the lower your bodyfat becomes. Hence the term - recomposition.

Because if you do gain the same amount of LBM as fat you wont really lean out.

I'm not trying to argue w/ you, my knowledge can't compare to yours, just playing devils advocate to get some more info out there.

Hey Nowhere, you can argue with me all you want. No problissimo :) Since I don't believe in arguments, I won't comply, but I disagree where you say my knowledge is greater than yours. My knowledge is based on personal experience, nothing more. So, it's all relative.

I guess my own transformation example was not impressive (I agree, I'm not impressed with it either) so maybe I can give you another example; you can sit on the couch and watch TV while on a bulk, and do no lifting, and you'll still gain mass - both fat AND muscle. But the ratio won't be too impressive. Take that same person and put him on a clean bulking diet and give him a good training routine, and the shift leans more towards greater muscle gains, as opposed to adiposity. His metabolism will change as well since fat does not like the presence of muscle.

As another example, there's a guy in my gym who began training at the age of 38, 185 lbs. After about a year he developed a 6 rep max squat with 205 lbs. Today he is 53 years old, still around 185 lbs. but now his 6 rep squat weight is 345 lbs. He "looks" different. Harder, stronger, grainier, thicker, denser, his gut has reduced by a good 3-4 inches, or so it appears. His bodyfat has been reduced from 20% to about 13%. How did he do this? Well, the quality of his nutrition underwent vast improvements on a consistant basis, and his training intensity has gradually increased over the years. No big secrets.
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Different people make improvements with different specifications. Different macros. combining carbs, protein, and fat. Separating fats. Low reps, high volume, carb only PWO shake, no PWO shake. Full body routines, working out a different part everyday.There is a wealth of info out there and I don't think that it should be at odds with what everyone is doing some people may just be more comfortable with another philosophy.
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I've done just about everything you've mentioned in your above quote. It all works. If someone feels comfortable with another philosophy, then that's their right. Other than that, I really don't understand your point.

I'm an average Joe. Not genetically blessed by any stretch of the imagination. If someone is not getting the results they want, IE: more lean mass, less fat gain, more strength, more energy, etc., etc.,......they simply aren' trying hard enough, or don't have the desire to make these changes.

For some it'll take a long time (using me as an example again) for some, success comes sooner, but in the end it depends on the force of the human will if you want it bad enough.

IMHO :D

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Different people make improvements with different specifications. Different macros. combining carbs, protein, and fat. Separating fats. Low reps, high volume, carb only PWO shake, no PWO shake. Full body routines, working out a different part everyday.There is a wealth of info out there and I don't think that it should be at odds with what everyone is doing some people may just be more comfortable with another philosophy.
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I've done just about everything you've mentioned in your above quote. It all works. If someone feels comfortable with another philosophy, then that's their right. Other than that, I really don't understand your point.

IMHO :D

That was my point, but now worries I tend to lose track of what I'm saying myself.




If someone is not getting the results they want, IE: more lean mass, less fat gain, more strength, more energy, etc., etc.,......they simply aren' trying hard enough, or don't have the desire to make these changes.

IMHO :D



Or they don't have the experience necessary to know what to change and I think that is why these forums are so valuable. Members like yourself, 1FastGTX, Rtestes, Zen, Chic, and others help out when people are stuck or don't know where to go.


[QUOTE=mastover;523859]
For some it'll take a long time (using me as an example again) for some, success comes sooner, but in the end it depends on the force of the human will if you want it bad enough.

IMHO :D
I agree.

But I hope the OP posts soon because I seem to have drastically derailed the thread.

Sorry for not posting sooner, I just got back from vacation.

First of I would like to say that I greatly appreciate your guy's response. This proves to me again how great the forum is.

I guess I should explain my self better as to what my goals are.

I did my measurements last night and here are my stats:

Current:
Height: 5.7''
Body weight: 160LB
BF: 16.6%

Goal:
Body weight: 170-175LB
BF:10-11%

After doing some research and speaking to other trainers/bodybuilders I realized that by having greater muscle mass you tend to burn more calories. Since the only way to burn fat is to have a calorie deficit in your body you have to have a good diet.

Others mentioned a guide lines to follow like 40(carbs)/40(protein)/20(good fat). I don't count calories at all, but I do watch what I eat.

Marcus made sticky on this forum that shows you how to calculate your BMR. I followed the formula and I found out that I should be eating around 2777 calories daily to maintain my weight that I am at right now.

Before I posted the first post I didn't really know much about how the whole nutrition works, however after doing the research it made things a lot more clear. I guess by doing some reading I answered my own question. I just have to eat more to gain more muscle, but I have to eat clean to stay away from gaining fat.

From all of this I thought of another question. How much more calories do I have to consume to get to my goal? I am not looking to a quick 3-4 month hard core training and then stop, but to actually get there at most before next summer but doing it the right from the beginning and staying that way all the time.

If I said something that doesn't make sense please let me know.

Thanks again much appreciated.

Sorry for not posting sooner, I just got back from vacation.

First of I would like to say that I greatly appreciate your guy's response. This proves to me again how great the forum is.

I guess I should explain my self better as to what my goals are.

I did my measurements last night and here are my stats:

Current:
Height: 5.7''
Body weight: 160LB
BF: 16.6%

Goal:
Body weight: 170-175LB
BF:10-11%

After doing some research and speaking to other trainers/bodybuilders I realized that by having greater muscle mass you tend to burn more calories. Since the only way to burn fat is to have a calorie deficit in your body you have to have a good diet.

Others mentioned a guide lines to follow like 40(carbs)/40(protein)/20(good fat). I don't count calories at all, but I do watch what I eat.

Marcus made sticky on this forum that shows you how to calculate your BMR. I followed the formula and I found out that I should be eating around 2777 calories daily to maintain my weight that I am at right now.

Before I posted the first post I didn't really know much about how the whole nutrition works, however after doing the research it made things a lot more clear. I guess by doing some reading I answered my own question. I just have to eat more to gain more muscle, but I have to eat clean to stay away from gaining fat.

From all of this I thought of another question. How much more calories do I have to consume to get to my goal? I am not looking to a quick 3-4 month hard core training and then stop, but to actually get there at most before next summer but doing it the right from the beginning and staying that way all the time.

If I said something that doesn't make sense please let me know.

Thanks again much appreciated.

2777 calories seems a bit too much on a 40-40-20 ratio for your maintenence. In any case, if that's the figure you came up with, and after addressing your long term goal, I'd go on an alternating bulk/cut cycle. For 5 weeks I'd eat 300 calories over maintenence (bulk) on the 40-40-20 scheme, followed by 2 weeks of 500 calories below maintenence (cut) following a 50-20-30 scheme. Then 3 weeks with the bulk, 1 week with the cut. I'd cycle in this fashion keeping tabs on your bodyfat levels. Somewhere (and you will have to recognize when) your maintenece calories will either go up, or down. Your metabolism is going to be altered. When this occurs, you have to make adjustments to keep seeing progress.

On "cutting" weeks I would train using intensity techniques such as supersets, tri-sets, less rest between exercises. On "bulk" weeks, I'd work the basic multi-joint movements in the 5-8 rep range and try for weight increases every week. Be careful with heavy negatives and forced reps. I wouldn't use them, especially during your "cutting" weeks.

If the fat loss is becoming stubborn, you can incorporate cardio on "cut" weeks. Endo's, in general, seem to respond to HIIT. Ecto's have better results with LISS.

Just throwing some ideas your way. You can reach your goal :nod:
Dedication, consistancy, is key and always keep your eyes and ears open to learn as much as you can along the way.

Good luck! :)

What did you mean by:

Mass is muscle. The more lean mass you accrue, the lower your bodyfat becomes. Hence the term - recomposition.

Because if you do gain the same amount of LBM as fat you wont really lean out.

I'm not trying to argue w/ you, my knowledge can't compare to yours, just playing devils advocate to get some more info out there.


Not to speak for Mastover here, but I believe when he says "lean mass", he's talking about mostly muscle gain, not a 50/50 gain of fat/muscle which you refer to in your previous post.

If you put pure muscle mass on, your fat % goes down.

2777 calories seems a bit too much on a 40-40-20 ratio for your maintenence. In any case, if that's the figure you came up with, and after addressing your long term goal, I'd go on an alternating bulk/cut cycle. For 5 weeks I'd eat 300 calories over maintenence (bulk) on the 40-40-20 scheme, followed by 2 weeks of 500 calories below maintenence (cut) following a 50-20-30 scheme. Then 3 weeks with the bulk, 1 week with the cut. I'd cycle in this fashion keeping tabs on your bodyfat levels. Somewhere (and you will have to recognize when) your maintenece calories will either go up, or down. Your metabolism is going to be altered. When this occurs, you have to make adjustments to keep seeing progress.

On "cutting" weeks I would train using intensity techniques such as supersets, tri-sets, less rest between exercises. On "bulk" weeks, I'd work the basic multi-joint movements in the 5-8 rep range and try for weight increases every week. Be careful with heavy negatives and forced reps. I wouldn't use them, especially during your "cutting" weeks.

If the fat loss is becoming stubborn, you can incorporate cardio on "cut" weeks. Endo's, in general, seem to respond to HIIT. Ecto's have better results with LISS.

Just throwing some ideas your way. You can reach your goal :nod:
Dedication, consistancy, is key and always keep your eyes and ears open to learn as much as you can along the way.

Good luck! :)


Thanks for the tip mastover.

People told me that I could be doing bulking for X amount of week and then cut for a week then do it over again. I never really know about this technique up until now.

Again thanks for the help guys, always appreciated.:cool:

2777 calories seems a bit too much on a 40-40-20 ratio for your maintenence. In any case, if that's the figure you came up with, and after addressing your long term goal, I'd go on an alternating bulk/cut cycle. For 5 weeks I'd eat 300 calories over maintenence (bulk) on the 40-40-20 scheme, followed by 2 weeks of 500 calories below maintenence (cut) following a 50-20-30 scheme. Then 3 weeks with the bulk, 1 week with the cut. I'd cycle in this fashion keeping tabs on your bodyfat levels. Somewhere (and you will have to recognize when) your maintenece calories will either go up, or down. Your metabolism is going to be altered. When this occurs, you have to make adjustments to keep seeing progress.

On "cutting" weeks I would train using intensity techniques such as supersets, tri-sets, less rest between exercises. On "bulk" weeks, I'd work the basic multi-joint movements in the 5-8 rep range and try for weight increases every week. Be careful with heavy negatives and forced reps. I wouldn't use them, especially during your "cutting" weeks.

If the fat loss is becoming stubborn, you can incorporate cardio on "cut" weeks. Endo's, in general, seem to respond to HIIT. Ecto's have better results with LISS.

Just throwing some ideas your way. You can reach your goal :nod:
Dedication, consistancy, is key and always keep your eyes and ears open to learn as much as you can along the way.

Good luck! :)


I would like to try this later. Interesting. I'm doing a straight cut right now. Is there a reason that many of the cutting diets I see call for a higher percentage of fat?