I've done a bit of reading about BCAAs on Wikipedia and it sounds like the essential BCAAs, the ones the human body cannot create on its own, can be acquired through the consumption of fish, chicken, vegetables, etc.

In other words, the sort of diet a bodybuilder eats seems like it would already provide the BCAAs necessary.

I was wondering what the scientific basis is for the seemingly widespread belief that one should supplement with BCAA powder or capsules.

Also, I take EAS 100% whey protein powder and it says on the back of the bag it contains something like 1500mg of BCAAs.

I guess I want to be sure I am getting enough and if there's a genuinely compelling case to be made for supplementation then I will happily purchase my BCAA powder.

Can anyone help me understand this better?

Phrased yet another way: Why do (or don't) YOU take a BCAA sup.?

Thanks!! :tucool:

Here's a pretty decent read (http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1367018).

Of course, t-nation SELLS BCAAs, so keep that in mind.

Speed of getting the nutrients to the mucles. Your body doesn't have to break down food and then break down the proteins into the aminos.

It's similar to why people take fast carbs around workouts vs eating something with a lower GI like oatmeal.

I see. So do you know if any studies have been done that show a benefit for people lifting weights who take a BCAA supplement?

I edited my post, because that article said it better than I could :)

they make a difference for me when cutting.

maybe it's in my ehad, maybe it's not, but i dont lose nearly the strength i do , nor do i have the soreness, when i'm in a caloric deficit and lifting heavy.

same goes for when i'm doing lots of amounts of cardio / running / endurance ( triathlon training ) , the leucine helps

BCAA's in supplement form are free form amino acids. They are more readily taken up by your muscles. BCAA's in food sources take longer to be digested.

BCAA supplementation is anabolic and anti-catabolic at the same time. This means that it'll help you gain more muscle mass while bulking and help you retain more lean mass whlie cutting.

BCAA supplementation is one of the few supplements I tried that works exceptionally well. I used to use it religiously, but discontinued it due to high price. I find that it works best on heavier cuts, where you try to lose fat as fast as possible. But I found that as long as I keep my fat loss to a pound a week, I really don't have to worry much about lean mass loss. Yea, it's slower fat loss but it's better for my wallet and you know what they say, "Slow and steady wins the race." Also, slower cuts help me maintain my sanity.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=1008736&highlight=bcaa

It's not a worthwhile investment if you read the science and don't go on hearsay, IMO

Here's a deeper explanation for the OP:

Protein is made up of amino acids, of which there are about 20. We need all of them in varying amounts in order to survive.

Out of those 20, there are 8 that the body cannot synthesize on its own from other amino acids. These are called "Essential Amino Acids" because they must be taken in through diet or you die.

"Complete" proteins are those that contain all 8 Essential Amino Acids. All animal-based proteins, including any meat, fish, poultry, egg, or milk proteins are all "complete." Most plant proteins are not (with soy being the only exception I can think of off the top of my head).

When we ingest protein, it is metabolized (broken down) into its individual amino acids. These are then used by the body either individually, since most if not all amino acids have individual chemical roles in the body, or are used like biochemical Legos to be reassembled into other proteins the body needs (muscle, hemoglobin, enzymes, and a million others).

So what are BCAA's? Branched Chain Amino Acids are 3 of the 8 EAA's, specifically Leucine, Isoleucine, and Valine. These have the distinction of being metabolized directly in your muscles, which is what gives them such a powerful role in preventing catabolism (muscle tissue breakdown).

They each also have important individual roles, most notably Leucine. Leucine is a trigger for protein synthesis, so ensuring a consistent supply of it in your body not only helps prevent muscle breakdown but can encourage muscle growth (all depending on the rest of your diet and training).

Why supplement with BCAA's if they're already in any complete protein?

Simple. As with many other nutrients, there is a big difference between the minimum required amount, meaning the amount you need in order to avoid death, and the amount that is "optimal," meaning the amount that promotes the best possible health and/or performance.

Many bodybuilders and other athletes eat hundreds of grams of protein a day, even though you can survive on far less. They do this because higher amounts of protein are more optimal for their particular lifestyle and physiological goals.

BCAA's work the same way. People supplement with them so they can directly increase the amounts of BCAA's in their system independently of the amount of food they eat. You say your protein powder contains 1500mg of BCAA's, which would be a miniscule 1.5g. Put in context, it is not uncommon for those who supplement with BCAA's to take multiple 5 or 10g doses per day, with 30 or 40g in total not being out of the ordinary.

Is this necessary? That's up to you to decide. There's a fairly large amount of science backing them up, but people are still divided. Alan Aragon, one of the more knowledgeable health professionals that posts on Bodybuilding.com, is convinced (at least last time I checked) that they're a waste of money. Conversely, Layne Norton, a moderator at Bodybuilding.com as well as a BS in Biochemistry working on his Nutritional Science doctorate as well as a pro natural bodybuilder, has written extensively on the benefits of BCAA's. Incidentally, his academic specialty is skeletal muscle protein metabolism.

From everything I've read, from articles to scientific studies, I have no doubt that BCAA's are very beneficial as a supplement. They do seem to be far more useful when cutting than when bulking, and cutting is also the point where megadosing (taking large amounts throughout the day) seems most effective. My personal experience supports this.

If they don't fit into your budget, that's fine. I'd certainly argue that they are less "essential" than a good protein powder, a good multivitamin, an EFA (Essential Fatty Acid) supplement, such as fish oil, and creatine. And of course, nothing is more important that good solid nutrition and a solid training program.

If you do decide to try out BCAA's, I highly suggest that you get them in bulk powder form. You will be ridiculous amounts of money to buy capsules, and the various flavored versions out there, like Scivations Xtend, cost more and aren't more effective than plain BCAA's, although they certainly taste better.

I purchase mine from Bulk Nutrition in 1000g jugs, although they do have smaller sizes. I take 5g first thing in the morning before cardio, another 5g after, and 5g before bed. If it's a lifting day, I take another 10g immediately beforehand as well as immediately after.

Here's a deeper explanation for the OP:

Protein is made up of amino acids, of which there are about 20. We need all of them in varying amounts in order to survive.

Out of those 20, there are 8 that the body cannot synthesize on its own from other amino acids. These are called "Essential Amino Acids" because they must be taken in through diet or you die.

"Complete" proteins are those that contain all 8 Essential Amino Acids. All animal-based proteins, including any meat, fish, poultry, egg, or milk proteins are all "complete." Most plant proteins are not (with soy being the only exception I can think of off the top of my head).

When we ingest protein, it is metabolized (broken down) into its individual amino acids. These are then used by the body either individually, since most if not all amino acids have individual chemical roles in the body, or are used like biochemical Legos to be reassembled into other proteins the body needs (muscle, hemoglobin, enzymes, and a million others).

So what are BCAA's? Branched Chain Amino Acids are 3 of the 8 EAA's, specifically Leucine, Isoleucine, and Valine. These have the distinction of being metabolized directly in your muscles, which is what gives them such a powerful role in preventing catabolism (muscle tissue breakdown).

They each also have important individual roles, most notably Leucine. Leucine is a trigger for protein synthesis, so ensuring a consistent supply of it in your body not only helps prevent muscle breakdown but can encourage muscle growth (all depending on the rest of your diet and training).

Why supplement with BCAA's if they're already in any complete protein?

Simple. As with many other nutrients, there is a big difference between the minimum required amount, meaning the amount you need in order to avoid death, and the amount that is "optimal," meaning the amount that promotes the best possible health and/or performance.

Many bodybuilders and other athletes eat hundreds of grams of protein a day, even though you can survive on far less. They do this because higher amounts of protein are more optimal for their particular lifestyle and physiological goals.

BCAA's work the same way. People supplement with them so they can directly increase the amounts of BCAA's in their system independently of the amount of food they eat. You say your protein powder contains 1500mg of BCAA's, which would be a miniscule 1.5g. Put in context, it is not uncommon for those who supplement with BCAA's to take multiple 5 or 10g doses per day, with 30 or 40g in total not being out of the ordinary.

Is this necessary? That's up to you to decide. There's a fairly large amount of science backing them up, but people are still divided. Alan Aragon, one of the more knowledgeable health professionals that posts on Bodybuilding.com, is convinced (at least last time I checked) that they're a waste of money. Conversely, Layne Norton, a moderator at Bodybuilding.com as well as a BS in Biochemistry working on his Nutritional Science doctorate as well as a pro natural bodybuilder, has written extensively on the benefits of BCAA's. Incidentally, his academic specialty is skeletal muscle protein metabolism.

From everything I've read, from articles to scientific studies, I have no doubt that BCAA's are very beneficial as a supplement. They do seem to be far more useful when cutting than when bulking, and cutting is also the point where megadosing (taking large amounts throughout the day) seems most effective. My personal experience supports this.

If they don't fit into your budget, that's fine. I'd certainly argue that they are less "essential" than a good protein powder, a good multivitamin, an EFA (Essential Fatty Acid) supplement, such as fish oil, and creatine. And of course, nothing is more important that good solid nutrition and a solid training program.

If you do decide to try out BCAA's, I highly suggest that you get them in bulk powder form. You will be ridiculous amounts of money to buy capsules, and the various flavored versions out there, like Scivations Xtend, cost more and aren't more effective than plain BCAA's, although they certainly taste better.

I purchase mine from Bulk Nutrition in 1000g jugs, although they do have smaller sizes. I take 5g first thing in the morning before cardio, another 5g after, and 5g before bed. If it's a lifting day, I take another 10g immediately beforehand as well as immediately after.


can you show me the study where BCAAs taken pre/during/post WO outperformed whey using any parameter(fat loss, muscle retention)?

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=1008736&highlight=bcaa

It's not a worthwhile investment if you read the science and don't go on hearsay, IMO

what about the science do you disagree with?

I'm not sure what the progress is for this study, but this could be interesting:

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct/show/NCT00170144?order=34

It is rare to see clinical trials of any supplements. Unfortunately most 'studies' are done by companies who are selling the same supplements they are studying.

Also, many of these studies provide results which are not statistically significant. This is due mostly to the fact that the studies are very very small, and the subjects are not chosen randomly. Most results can be attribute to chance.

My latest line of questioning with Layne came to a standstill when he couldn't respond to my request for research comparing equal amounts of AA between groups, over a chronic period (months), under high-protein conditions. Layne is a smart guy. Smart enough to admit that he can't refute my points.

My latest line of questioning with Layne came to a standstill when he couldn't respond to my request for research comparing equal amounts of AA between groups, over a chronic period (months), under high-protein conditions. Layne is a smart guy. Smart enough to admit that he can't refute my points.

Alan -- I always enjoy reading your posts ... It is great to see somebody evaluating supplements on the basis of empirically derived evidence. Do you have a link to the discussions between you and Layne? Reading it could be quite informative....

Alan -- I always enjoy reading your posts ... It is great to see somebody evaluating supplements on the basis of empirically derived evidence. Do you have a link to the discussions between you and Layne? Reading it could be quite informative....No problem. Here's the exact discussion I was referring to:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=3357891&highlight=alan+layne+bcaa