Quick question to make sure I'm not injuring myself.

I did squats this week for the first time in several years. I've been doing leg work, but it's always smith squats, lunges, leg press, etc. My legs are getting sore in a weird spot...all the way at the top of the quad, close to the hip. This is the first time I've had ever felt DOMS in this area and I'm a bit worried. Usually the doms are focused in the lower to middle of my quads, not up this high.

Do you think I'm just working a part of the muscle that has been ignored in the past or do you think I'm doing something wrong?

I wasn't doing too heavy a weight (190x8 - I'm 6'-0" and 230#) and I think my form is ok. I do have a wide stance as I have some ankle flexibility issues and this allows me to keep my heels down and drop my rear better.

Anyone have any input?

Thanks,

John

Since you say "legs" are getting sore, I'm assuming it's bilateral.

If that's the case, then dollars to soynuts (no doughnuts!) you're using stabilizers that didn't get worked with the smith. The smith forces a linear movement that people generally don't do outside a smith.

Plus, the smith enables bad form. I wouldn't necessarily say "forces" (although some people do) bad form...but people tend to squat in a smith in a posture that just wouldn't work outside of one.

But then, the sum total of my experience with a smith is one bench press. I just plain didn't like the concept.

Do you think I'm just working a part of the muscle that has been ignored in the past?


Yes.

Thanks for the input guys. I'll keep heading down the squatting path.

Just curious,..Is the soreness in the front quad, or round back in the glutes,...I get a heck of a pain or soreness in the glutes after a good session of squats,..Almost like it's in the joint, but not quite,..Like I have a pulled tendon,..which could be,..I did pull my right side a good while back,,....

>>>--->

This pain is definitely in the front. I'm used to the glute pain from tough lunge or split squat workouts. I don't think I'm squatting enough weight yet to hit my glutes any worse than I've been doing.

It's probably the hip flexors if you're going wide. I'd actually recommend bringing the stance in because it's likely that you don't have the hip mobility or flexibility to "safely" squat in a wide stance, especially if you're just starting the movement.

It's probably the hip flexors if you're going wide. I'd actually recommend bringing the stance in because it's likely that you don't have the hip mobility or flexibility to "safely" squat in a wide stance, especially if you're just starting the movement.

I posted that and deleted it because I figured I didn't know what I was talking about :D

It's probably the hip flexors if you're going wide.

Could be, eccentric stuff is often the worst of it.

Could be IT band, could be several things.

My advice is don't go up in weight or reps for a couple leg workouts and see if it's still there.

Could be, eccentric stuff is often the worst of it.

Could be IT band, could be several things.
Of course. I say probably hip flexors though because he's having the pain on the top of the quad near the hip -- that's not usually indicative of the IT band.

I posted that and deleted it because I figured I didn't know what I was talking about :D
It would have been a good post. :tu:

Starting wide is basically starting in an extreme ROM. By definition, it's rare for people to have flexibility in an extreme ROM without specifically working for it. So, starting more narrow and gradually working outward would be the way to go for this.

Likewise, squatting wide to bypass an ankle inflexibility does nothing to cure the problem itself. Since he says he can't squat narrow with good form and squatting wide is giving him pain, midstance would probably be the best option along with specific work to improve flexibility and muscle strength in the closer and wider ROMs.

Of course. I say probably hip flexors though because he's having the pain on the top of the quad near the hip -- that's not usually indicative of the IT band.

I agree with you about where the flexors and IT band are, but one of the hip flexors (tensor fasciae lata) connects to the IT band.

Usually if you mess up the IT band, you get soreness on the outside above the knee.

But you can also have the pain at the other end - at the TFL (like this guy) or glues (not like this guy). I don't have a good authoritative reference for the TFL but you can see a conversation about it at this training site:

My pain is directly front of the hip joint in what I believe is due to the the Tensor Fascia Lata(TFL) muscle. My other hip is sometimes stiff at the front and above the joint but never as severe as the left side. The TFL essentialy is the start of the ilio-tibal band(ITB syndrome). This muscle(ilio-tibal band) runs from above the hip down the outside of the thigh and connects to the oustide of the knee. Most people tend to have pain at the oustide of the knee, but others like you and I get it at the hip. (http://www.pponline.co.uk/forum/talk-injury/injury-in-area-between-hip-and-thigh-muscle)

Of course. I say probably hip flexors though because he's having the pain on the top of the quad near the hip -- that's not usually indicative of the IT band.

:whistle:


Starting wide is basically starting in an extreme ROM. By definition, it's rare for people to have flexibility in an extreme ROM without specifically working for it. So, starting more narrow and gradually working outward would be the way to go for this.

:whistle:


Likewise, squatting wide to bypass an ankle inflexibility does nothing to cure the problem itself. Since he says he can't squat narrow with good form and squatting wide is giving him pain, midstance would probably be the best option along with specific work to improve flexibility and muscle strength in the closer and wider ROMs.

:sleep:

Wow. The wealth of information on this board never ceases to amaze me. Only problem is that now I have no idea if my legs are going to fall off or if it's just some minor soreness that I need to work through.

I don't really know how wide my stance is. My stance is probably about 6" wider (3" each side) than shoulder width with my toes pointed slightly outward. I would say that my stance is very similar to what they say to do in this link.

http://www.elitefts.com/documents/Teaching_the_squat.htm

Would this be considered a wide stance? I know it's much wider than the guy on exrx.com but is it really a wide stance or more of a midstance?

I do appreciate all the input as I really don't want to injure myself.

john

Wow. The wealth of information on this board never ceases to amaze me. Only problem is that now I have no idea if my legs are going to fall off or if it's just some minor soreness that I need to work through.

I don't really know how wide my stance is. My stance is probably about 6" wider (3" each side) than shoulder width with my toes pointed slightly outward. I would say that my stance is very similar to what they say to do in this link.

http://www.elitefts.com/documents/Teaching_the_squat.htm

Would this be considered a wide stance? I know it's much wider than the guy on exrx.com but is it really a wide stance or more of a midstance?

I do appreciate all the input as I really don't want to injure myself.

john
The athletic stance that he first describes is usually a good midstance position. He has you going wider than that (teaching something closer to a powerlifting style squat), which may be what is causing your problem. You should eventually be able to squat that way if you want to do so, but, at this point, I would learn and adjust to the movement with the narrower athletic / midstance.

Your legs are probably just sore. If they don't get better over the course of a week then there might be more to it.

Quick update.

I think I did injure myself a bit. The hip flexor never quite recovered. I stopped doing squats but continued other leg work like lunges, split squats & leg press and the pain wasn't going away. I finally decided to take some time off and see what happened. It's been two weeks today and I'm starting to feel back to normal. I'll give it another week for good measure then go back at it easy.

I'm also going to start learning some about flexibility and what I can do to increase mine.

Thanks for all your earlier input.

John