hey guys im back...still need some advice

Basically....i feel liek i haven't lose any fat in like a month...or more. i've been at it since like the end of march. i don't know if it's necessarily true that i haven't lost any fat but it sure seems like i've hit a maaajor plateau. maybe i'm not eating enough?

Here's what i've been eating for the past week since i've been home from school how is this diet?


Meal 1: Whole Grain Cereal
Cup of Skim Milk
Banana
~290 cals

Meal 2: 2 Slices Whole Wheat Bread
Turkey
1 Slice Swiss Cheese
Carrots
(sometimes some fruit)
~330 cals

Meal 3: Peanut Butter Sandwich
Banana
~430 cals

Meal 4: 1 Can of Tuna
Lettuce
Fruit Salad
~175-200 cals

Meal 5: Yogurt and Banana (240 cals)

or
Whole Grain Cereal and Skim Milk (190 cals)


Now liek i said it varies a little bit...but thats pretty much what it is...

Am i eating too little?

As Far as exercising goes...

Lifting 3 days a week

HIIT 20 mins everyday...should i make that 3-4 times a week?
Sometimes i even do 2 sessions a day. one HIIT and one LISS for 20 mins...

What should i change....what am i doing wrong.

I'm not sure if you've posted this elsewhere, but what are you're stats? This is just a guess, but it seems like you have quite a bit of carbs without that much protein. What is the breakdown of carbs/protein/fat? Maybe you could substitute some of the carbs for higher protein foods.

not a bad idea...but see i was going to my dietician for a while during school...but i can't go to her anymore as it's summer vacation and she was saying that i didnt have enough carbs....so i upped my carb intake...maybe too much?

by the way im 6'0'' 160.... i know people are probably gonna be like why are u cutting shouldnt u gain muscle...but honestly i'm incredibly unsatisfied with my current bodyfat...

At 6 foot, 160lbs, I'm assuming you're close to your target weight. 8-10 lbs away at the most maybe? Suggestions to consider:

You appear to have at least a 2:1 ratio for carbs to protein. Try reducing this ratio. Center your carbs around the time before and immediately after your workout.

Replace some of the fruit with your meals with more vegatables instead. You don't have any greens with the exception of salad.

Your diet needs veggies & you're not eating enough.

Meal 3: A better meal would be chicken ( other options are fish, turkey, ect), veggies and a sweet potato or brown rice.

Meal 4: Get rid of the fruit salad and pile on more veggies.

Meal 5: Make this a whole meal with a protein source and more veggies.

If you have something before going to bed. try some low fat cottage cheese.

Doing HIIT everyday is taxing on the body. Try doing HIIT on your non-lifting days, then do LISS or something like that on your lifting days.

Are you taking one full day off? The body needs the time to rest and recover.

Drop hiit, do a one hour cardio workout 6 days/week.

alright so here's what i think im going to do...

Friday-Sunday im going to take the weekend to rest...no cardio. i'm going to do some re-feeding so i can get my glycogen back up and my whole body recovered. i'm gonna try my best not to go overboard...but i think my body needs some serious recovery..i've been going at it since march with like barely any cheat meals doing cardio like 7 days a week

that means i'm going to get that chipotle burrito i haven't had in like 3 months.

so after this weekend...starting monday

i'm going to do:

45 LISS (Fasted AM) like 3-4 times a week.

Lifting 3 times a week

Try and up my cals to about ~1800

and finally...center a lot of my carbs around pre/post workout


hows that sound?

lifitng 3x /week...

could you list out the routine?
How often are you adding weight to the bar?


Honestly, overall you may be doing too much in a week.

6'0, 160lbs? How much fat do you have on you? Frankly, you need to STOP dieting, and focus on lifting heavy weights and eating good, whole foods. Maybe in 6 months or a year, you can think about cutting back down.

i'm adding 5lbs per session...i know that's going to plateau soon..but it's working so far...lifing heavy with 5-6 reps reps.

i knew someone would say that i need to focus on adding muscle...but honestly right now i'm trying to get an excellent lean base so that i can bulk up clean without gaining even more fat.. i don't understand what people dont get about that... i'm not new to lifting..

why would u want to bulk up at like 15% bodyfat when you could cut down to around 10-12% start bulking and cut again when you reach upwards of 15% again...

Definitely read the stickies in the beginner forum and take into consideration some of the dietary suggestions in this thread. Reason being, your proposed diet was, well, horrid.

Just being honest as it was truly horrid.

~SC~

i knew someone would say that i need to focus on adding muscle...but honestly right now i'm trying to get an excellent lean base so that i can bulk up clean without gaining even more fat.. i don't understand what people dont get about that... i'm not new to lifting..

We "get" you just fine.

The problem is how can you develop a lean base if your not feeding the muscle you already have correctly? You're going to end up spinning your wheels with your current cutting cycle then on your bulk cycle. Muscle also burns fat, so if you want to lean out, lift heavy and eat. You can eat more when you bulk.

As Swole said, your diet is horrid.

your diet is horrid.

mmhmm.

a lot of sugar, carbs & processed food.

diet revamp time. :)

so..if my diet is so horrid...what should it look like

so..if my diet is so horrid...what should it look like

... and here is a link to one of the aforementioned stickies in the Intro forum, which answers exactly that question: "My Guide To Nutrition For Weight Loss" (http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?t=1222)

i appreciate it man

i thought i was eating relatively clean foods.

whole grains/turkey/tuna etc...

whats so horrid about it..

i mean i realize i'm not getting enough calories in but i'm trying to change that..

but so i'm just curious what's so horridly bad about it and what i could change. the link is nice but it really doesnt tell me what to substitute add or take away..

Lets look at protein. Its recommended that you consume no more than 1 gram of protein for every pound of body weight. I weigh 170 lbs so I should be getting 170g of protein per day.

Are you consuming 160g of protein per day? It doesn't seem so.

Complex Carbohydrates
Complex carbohydrates can be found in a variety of foods including bread, rice, pasta, vegetables and some milk products. These foods are generally digested slower and release energy over a longer period of time which helps reduce fatigue and makes you feel fuller, longer. Many complex carbs are also rich in vitamins, minerals and dietary fibre.

Simple Carbohydrates
Simple carbohydrates are high in calories and have little nutritional value. Sugar has no vitamins, minerals, dietary fibre or essential nutrients. Simple Carbohydrates are not good for people trying to lose fat as explained below in the Glycemic Index section.

3 bananas, fruit salad, and yogurt.

Are you taking EFA supplements? Are you eating enough, considering your maintenance level is around 1600 cal/day and you're eating at a deficit of -300 and probably burning an average of 4-500 more per day, bringing your net intake to, like, 7-800 calories per day. And so on... I'd really go through those stickies. I need to do a review session myself lol...

as far as the protein intake goes im starting to drink whey again. i was out for a couple weeks and went to the store to buy some. not so worried about that anymore

as far as the bananas/yogurt goes i've read various different websites clearly stating that they were good choices. not only that my nutritionist suggested them...so i'm a bit skeptical on that take...especially since everyone suggests you should up your fruit intake as well as veggies.

however...maybe 3 bananas is too much and i should vary. sometimes i eat grapes or oranges or pineapple instead. i like to vary things. that was just one day.

as far as the maintenance calories go....im a bit confused as to what you were trying to say... did u calculate my maintenance to be 1600? because i don't think that's my maintenance unless that's my supposed RMR without any activity. anyway point is i'm going to up my calorie intake to 1800-2000 and only do cardio on days i'm not lifting.

so what else is wrong with my entire approach here..i'm really desperate for some more advice.

You'd be better off with berries, a more fiberous/lower sugar fruit like apples or pears, or even something like grapefruit or citrus than the higher sugared bananas. Bananas aren't horrible, but I don't eat them in large quantities when I'm tryin gto cut.

Grapes are also high GI sugared.

When trying to burn fat, my goal is always to include at least 20 g protein per meal. Usually double that (but that's not necessary for everyone). I personally do lower carb, and only have those in the AM or after working out.

I try to get a lot of healthy fats in the meals starting around lunch. Nuts and natural nut butters, olive oil, fatty fish, avacados, fish oil supplements, flax and flax oil. I don't totally avoid saturated fats (you still need some), and I eat a couple of whole eggs a day. I personally rarely go below 30% healthy fat in my diet when I'm cuttting, but not everybody goes this high. At least 20-25% of your diet should be fat, though. There are alot of health benefits.

The other thing I try to include in nearly every meal is a fiberous green vegetable. Green beans, bell peppers, spinach, broccoli, cauliflower (not green, but the same thing) etc. I limit my more carb based vegetables like carrots, although they won't kill your progress if you keep them in moderation.

So:

1) more protein spread throughout the day
2) less sugary/high GI carbs (bananas, milk/yogurt, most breads)
3) more healthy fats
4) green veggies!

Also, read this (http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=291seven2).

As far as cardio, HIIT is an excellent way to burn fat. No reason to completely remove it if you like it. I personally HATE long boring steady state cardio and don't find it that effective when you consider time efficiency (others differ). So don't necessarily eliminate it, but variety is good so you could do some of both. Just keep most of the HIIT away from your lifting.

This (http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1526539) is an excellent read on fat loss and exercise types. It lines up with my experience.

Don't rely on whey as your main protein sourse. Protein shakes are supplement, not food.
"Real food" protein is thermogenic, needs to be digested and that burns calories too.
Chicken breast (unprocessed), turkey breast (unprocessed), white fish (broiled, not fried). I have about 4 servings of that kind of protein a day. This is my main source of protein.
Make sure that you include "real food" protein in each meal.
So you will end up with 6 protein meals.

Then add your good carbs.
I have 4 carb/protein meals. I have oatmeal, yam, brown rice.
Portions will depend on your goal.
(Oatmeal with couple tbsp of yogurt and blueberries + egg whites omlet make great breakfast for example)

Add your veggies to as many meals as you can. Lots of veggies.

Fruit.
Add grapefruit, berries, kiwi.
Personally on cut I stay away from oranges, grapes and other very sweet fruit.
If you want banana, have it right after your weight training (you can add it to your protein shake)
Pineapple is great with your evening meal (1/2 cup, unprocessed, fresh).
When I cut I have cottage cheese and pineapple OR cottage cheese and peanut butter as my last meal.
Cottage cheese has casein, slow digesting protein, great before sleep.

Fats.
I have 1-2 protein/fat meals a day.
For example:
- large salad with flaxseed/apple cider vinegar dressing (I use about 1/2 tbsp of oil) and tuna or salmon
- salad with avocado (1/2 avocado)
- egg whites and 1 tbsp of peanut butter or almond butter
- like I said cottage cheese and PB
- omlet (egg whites and 1-2 eggs) and virgin coconut oil (google coconut oil, its great!!)
- stir fry done with lean turkey and some coconut oil as well
.... and so on

alright guys i really appreciate those posts!!

i'm going to come up with a new diet and post it up asap...

again..when i post it any comments would be greatly appreciated

as far as the maintenance calories go....im a bit confused as to what you were trying to say... did u calculate my maintenance to be 1600? because i don't think that's my maintenance unless that's my supposed RMR without any activity. anyway point is i'm going to up my calorie intake to 1800-2000 and only do cardio on days i'm not lifting.

Yes, that's what I did... I was in a hurry. heh. I was just trying to get you something of a useful answer, but luckily MB and Maya came along and did a better job. :lol:

ok SO i've read lots and lots of articles and every one of your posts. here is my new proposed diet. tell me what you think. i still think it needs some tweaking but i think it might finally be getting there...


(Fasted AM Cardio 30 mins on OFF days)
Meal 1: Oatmeal/Protein Shake/Fruit
Meal 2: Turkey/Vegetables/Whole Wheat Bread/Berries (PRE-WO)
Meal 3: Protein Shake/Banana/Peanut Butter (PWO)
Meal 4: Tuna/Vegetables
Meal 5: Cottage Cheese/Peanut Butter

so...what i've done is reduced the amount of carbs from sources like bananas/yogurt/bread. i'm having a banana PWO as suggested. i'm having bread once a day.

is oatmeal a good substitute for the wholegrain cereal?

i've also added more protein to every meal and i'm using protein shakes to help add to it yet i'm not relying on it for my protein source.

i'm having 3 carb/protein meals and 2 fat/protein meals.

is this any better than my original diet or am i just wasting my brain power.

I think it's better :nod:

Take out the PB PWO. You don't want carbs and fat there together. It will slow down digestion of the protein and carbs. Move the fat to meal 4 if you want.

Oats are definitely an improvement over most cereals. Just don't get the preflavored kind with a bunch of sugar and other junk, eat the real stuff. Flavor yourself if you need to. Use splenda or similar instead of real sugar if you need it sweet.

How many calories, and how much do you weigh currently?

Meal 2: Turkey/Vegetables/Whole Wheat Bread/Berries (PRE-WO)
Meal 3: Protein Shake/Banana/Peanut Butter (PWO)

Are you adding something else in that protein shake? This is the meal where you really need the carbs, and you have a banana only. I'd add some fast digesting carbs (why not even liquid carbs) , and add carbs also in the second solid meal after training. Switching place between meal 2 and 4 might not be a bad idea.

Mayas and Mannish advice earlier in the thread are great.

wow now we're really getting somewhere!!

u two guys with the inclusion of maya and doubleplus have really helped me a lot already!

Thank u SO much

ok SO!

Meal 1: Oatmeal/Protein Shake/Fruit
Meal 2: Turkey/Vegetables/Whole Wheat Bread
Meal 3: Protein Shake/Banana(PWO)
Meal 4: Tuna/Vegetables/Peanut Butter or Nuts*
Meal 5: Cottage Cheese/Peanut Butter

i thought about switiching meals 2 and 4 as u said but...wouldnt it be better to have some more carbs preworkout too? maybe i'll switch it up on off days just to change it up a little bit or something.

now you mentioned more carbs post workout. what should i be getting these carbs from? i know u said like higher GI i guess but what are some good ideas?

i also moved the peanut butter up a meal and i'm thinking of maybe switching to just some nuts like peanuts or almonds. just for fun.

right now i'm 156 at 5'11. i just went to the doctor on friday and those are my measurements. my BMI is 21 so really i'm not trying to lose WEIGHT*******. I'm trying to lose fat while increasing my LBM.

how many calories do u think i should be consuming? thats my next big question!

oh and by the way though.

the whole grain cereal i was taking in had oats in them. dunno how that sizes up to oatmeal though...

oh and by the way though.

the whole grain cereal i was taking in had oats in them. dunno how that sizes up to oatmeal though...

Basically anything which wasn't present 10,000 years ago,or something which looked like your great-ancestors didn't eat,shouldn't be eaten.And then some.

K

Basically anything which wasn't present 10,000 years ago,or something which looked like your great-ancestors didn't eat,shouldn't be eaten.And then some.

So protein powder is out then? As well as most types of oil and dairy products of any kind? ;)

You're talking about adhering to the Paleolithic diet and it's been debated on these boards. Personally, I think you should focus on eating unprocessed foods as much as possible. That doesn't mean, though, that you can't have other stuff as well. You'd actually be pretty limited in your options if you only ate what our prehistoric ancestors consumed.

i guess u should really get as close as close as u can to somewhat of a paleolithic diet but i don't think whey is out as well as some processed foods. otherwise no one would suggest eating peanut butter or cottage cheese. i dont think our ancestors sat around making peanut butter or figured out how to make cottage cheese and put it in a nice little tub...haha

guys any ideas on a good caloric intake for my height and weight?

So protein powder is out then? As well as most types of oil and dairy products of any kind? ;)

You're talking about adhering to the Paleolithic diet and it's been debated on these boards. Personally, I think you should focus on eating unprocessed foods as much as possible. That doesn't mean, though, that you can't have other stuff as well. You'd actually be pretty limited in your options if you only ate what our prehistoric ancestors consumed.

It was meant to be a general rule of thumb.When in doubt,use common sense,lol.I personally use EFA supplements/whey protein/multi-vits and eat stuff that comes out of cute cans like cottage cheese etc.I don't use peanut butter unless on a bulk,and only if I have sudden craves for peanut butter(which doesn't happen often,thankfully 'p);the ones which I can find in the supermarkets are those nasty sugary types.

guys any ideas on a good caloric intake for my height and weight?
This is found in one of the stickies.Search for Harris Benedict formula,BMR etc.

wellll

i did the harris benedict and it said my maintenance is around 2700. so i've definitely been waaaayy under eating. with this in mind i think i'm going to go for around ~2000. i'll let it drop a little lower (17-1800) some days and i'll let it get up to around 2200 some days. that way i'll stay within the range of 500-1000 calorie deficit.

how accurate do u think that calculation is?

how accurate do u think that calculation is?

I don't think anyone can answer that question other than yourself.Keep a food log,monitor your progress.Give or take I've found it decent.My personal take is err on the side of more calories when dieting,go slow and steady;rather than decreasing calories to sub-optimal levels and realising that your losing too much muscle mass.You would hit a plateau much much later.

But then again,I have age on my side :claphigh:

K

wow now we're really getting somewhere!!

u two guys with the inclusion of maya and doubleplus have really helped me a lot already!

Thank u SO much

ok SO!

Meal 1: Oatmeal/Protein Shake/Fruit
Meal 2: Turkey/Vegetables/Whole Wheat Bread
Meal 3: Protein Shake/Banana(PWO)
Meal 4: Tuna/Vegetables/Peanut Butter or Nuts*
Meal 5: Cottage Cheese/Peanut Butter

i thought about switiching meals 2 and 4 as u said but...wouldnt it be better to have some more carbs preworkout too? maybe i'll switch it up on off days just to change it up a little bit or something.

now you mentioned more carbs post workout. what should i be getting these carbs from? i know u said like higher GI i guess but what are some good ideas?

i also moved the peanut butter up a meal and i'm thinking of maybe switching to just some nuts like peanuts or almonds. just for fun.

right now i'm 156 at 5'11. i just went to the doctor on friday and those are my measurements. my BMI is 21 so really i'm not trying to lose WEIGHT*******. I'm trying to lose fat while increasing my LBM.

how many calories do u think i should be consuming? thats my next big question!

Hey there,

Carbs at the lunch meal is ok too - but do add some more in the first solid meal after training. This is where you really need them to feed your recovery. In the PWO drink I use maltodextrin myself along with the protein, which is a very fast absorbing carb. You could use a pre-made "gainer"/sports drink or mix one yourself. Nothing wrong with just eating some bread either if you prefer solid stuff. Like Mannish said, avoid the fat there. I aim for something like 20 g. of protein and 40 g. of carbs, since I'm a rather small guy.

About the energy intake: Find the Harris-Benedict equation and plug in your stats and activity level. This will give you a good starting point. In my opinion, you shouldn't go for a cut with the stats you have. Focus on first eating around maintenance (where your weight doesn't move much at all - like you say you shouldn't drop more weight) and train hard in the gym. When you feel that you have got into the habits, and got the intensity up in the gym, add calories until you are very very slowly increasing in weight.

You don't need a "superdiet" or dig down deeply into details. What's most important is to focus on eating good foods (your last meal plan was a great improvement) and working very hard in the gym. Make it a lifestyle habit. Put in at least five hours of training every week, and the majority of it at higher intensity (lifting and intervals), and I bet you will improve your body very dramatically.

Edit: you posted while I was writing - about the Harris-Benedict equation - that gives you a starting point. From that you need to adjust. Decide on a calorie level, stay there for two weeks and evaluate. Are you getting the results you want? Fine, stay there. If not, adjust upwards or downwards. And also - you shouldn't lose more weight with your stats. Keep the weight constant, or make it increase slowly. Trying to cut at 1800 kcal isn't a very good idea i.m.o.

great post man! i really appreciate it.

i might go out and buy some malto-dextrin...but for now i might do something like have some bread with the shake and the banana. i'll work the little kinks like that out eventually.

but for now...i think i'm going to stick with this (with the added carbs post workout)

i'm tired of going through this diet overhaul thing and i think i just need to do SOMETHING. my little break this weekend is over. my head is clearer and i've got an idea of the direction i want to go in.

1800-2000 might be too low...but that's what im going to start with. i can't handle anything more quite yet. i'll probably slowly add some calories as i progress and see what happens.

i've decided i will be doing HIIT for 20 mins 3 days a week as well as lifting 3 days a week.

my diet might not be the best...but look i'm not professional or anything near it. i'm a kid who was really out of shape and has progressively gotten in better shape and now just wants to continue good habits and take that as far as i can go. hell i went from 173 to 155 in 2 months without a "great" diet. i didn't even lose all that much muscle either to be honest with you. but my results came to a hault and i needed some answers so here i am...

wish me luck guys!