i was doing some exercises with a girlfriend of mine, and a personal trainer came up and asked her what she was trying to do.

she replied burn off some fat and get in shape for summer.

so the girl asked, how come youre doing such heavy weight then? you're supposed to be doing very low weight and high reps!!

so then i got the evil eye by janine, and when i was done with my set, i came over to see what's up.

basically i was told that girls bodies are completely different from men's, that doing heavy weight is the complete wrong way to be doing things, and that she needs to be using the pink dumbbells and doing a zillion reps. this is to build " long flexible muscles "

I then asked her, isn't that what stretching and flexibility exercises are for, at the end of a workout???

when the girl asked me what my gameplan is, i said:

caloric deficit, 400-500 calories a day deficit, combined with heavy weights at medium reps, full body workouts, and high intensity cardio combined with medium intensity cardio for no more than 20 minutes total per session, emphasis on diet.

she told me i didn't know what i was doing with girls, at all. i replied i don't , but i know what works for human beings.

she said that the girl was going to 'bulk up' if we kept training that way. i said there is no way she will 'bulk up' if she is eating at a caloric deficit.

i'm going to take this personal training test / certification bullshit just so i can shut half these mofos up.

well. what do you think.

I think all the gals here on JSF should pay a visit this trainer. :nod:

Anyway, this person is obviously very arrogent. Ignore it and I'm sorry you and your friend had to deal with that.

Pffttt...pink dumbells. :rolleyes:

i'm going to take this personal training test / certification bullshit just so i can shut half these mofos up.

well. what do you think.

I think if you want to take a PT exam, you probably should take one from a respected organization. And probably not for the reasons to shut someone up.

The next time you see this PT, ask her where she got her accreditation. Then thank her for her opinion, ask her to leave you alone, and go on your way.

when the girl asked me what my gameplan is, i said:

caloric deficit, 400-500 calories a day deficit, combined with heavy weights at medium reps, full body workouts, and high intensity cardio combined with medium intensity cardio for no more than 20 minutes total per session, emphasis on diet.
.
She probably had to go home and run your statement thru BabelFish, just to figure out what you said. http://www.mommiescamelot.com/forum/images/smilies/doh.gif

well. what do you think.


Take a pic of Maya and ask if the trainer has any comparable clients. If not, ask why not?

:)...
i'm going to take this personal training test / certification bullshit just so i can shut half these mofos up...

I wouldn't make a judgement about their profession based on this one obviously confused individual.

I know your tone was meant to be humerous, and the post did sort of make me laugh. :)

she is accreddited to NCSA and somethign else

It is an epedemic. Most personal trainers think this way and most magazines write routines this way. Maybe our little internet bodybuilding communities are all wrong and they are right. You would think that an industry based on visual results and professionals that survive based on visual results would not have the "masses" doing routines that provide sub-par results.

I am frustrated trying to change the paradigm in my own circle of friends. Since I have educated myself I have argued with people over Drs advice, nutritionists advice, personal trainers advice and any other professional with a designation that adds their two cents in when it comes to bodycomposition. I always get trumped with "you are not a Dr-PT-professional". Let them have it their way!

she said that the girl was going to 'bulk up' if we kept training that way.

http://www.barbiebarbell.com/images/photoshoot%20jan29%202007%20151.jpg

I am frustrated trying to change the paradigm in my own circle of friends. Since I have educated myself I have argued with people over Drs advice, nutritionists advice, personal trainers advice and any other professional with a designation that adds their two cents in when it comes to bodycomposition. I always get trumped with "you are not a Dr-PT-professional". Let them have it their way!

Not all doctors are bad.

My primary physican likes the fact that I eat 6 times a day. He has never complained about my lifting heavy as long as I'm safe about it and don't end up breaking a toe or smashing my face.

For whatever it is worth, my doctor practices what he preaches which I think makes a huge difference. I have a hard time taking a overweight doctor seriously when they start talking about diet an exercise when in fact, he or she really needs to be taking their own advice.

My son's peditrician is the same way. Obviously my son isn't into weight training, but he ( my son's doctor) also keeps himself in shape as he knows if he starts getting thick around the middle, he's going to have a hard time convinving his audience that eating well and getting exercise everyday is the best way to a healthy life.

http://www.barbiebarbell.com/images/photoshoot%20jan29%202007%20151.jpg

Excellent example.

Here she is squating 314 (at 5'5", 115 lbs) at the Arnold:

XBFlvqaDsEs

And an article (http://blog.bodybuilding.com/MuscleUpdate/2007/03/26/whos-barbie-barbell/).

Heh, here's the vid from the photoshoot that zen's pic was from...
as_SNxXRivQ

Different personal trainers have different ideas about how women "should" train because they have different ideas about what women "should" look like.

Chad Waterbury recommends something very similar to what your female trainer above recommends:
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1305014

Surprisingly, most people did not bash his training tips.

I don't like that style at all, because it works against my body shape instead of emphasizing my strengths, and would not have allowed me to reach the level of leanness at which I'm most content.

Training with low reps with heavy weights will increase muscle mass in relation to fat mass. This will give a leaner look to the physique - more muscular definition and less fatty deposits, similar to how the women on the cover of fitness magazines (http://images.google.ca/images?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2005-23,GGLG:en&q=fitness%20magazine&oe=UTF-8&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi) look. It will not cause a woman to "bulk up" (ie. get bigger) unless it is combined with a caloric surplus. But it also, unfortunately, won't do much for helping a woman to look like a supermodel (http://images.google.ca/images?svnum=10&um=1&hl=en&rls=GGLG%2CGGLG%3A2005-23%2CGGLG%3Aen&q=supermodel). (But I don't see how pink dumbells would help there either. The only thing that would be beneficial there is good genes, a nice low caloric level, and some work on a stair stepper or elliptical machine.)

Think about it. How do fitness models train? How do fashion models train?

So, for women that want to look like
Jaime Pressly
Jessica Simpson
Keira Knightley
Kate Bosworth in Superman Returns
it's not really inconsistent to train with high reps and light weights.

For women whose goal physiques are closer to
Monica Brant
Jennifer Garner
Jelena Abbou
Kate Bosworth in Blue Crush
their training should be more weight-intensive.

It's really much easier when women keep their body type in mind when choosing fitness routines, and have a clear idea about their ideal physique.

So, for women that want to look like
Jaime Pressly
Jessica Simpson
Keira Knightley
Kate Bosworth in Superman Returns
it's not really inconsistent to train with high reps and light weights.


To clarify, to look like these women, you must have a constant caloric deficit. I don't care what their routines look like, and I think that's the point you were insinuating.

FWIW, I've been training with a girl (former NCAA sprinter) who has larger traps, quads, and hamstrings than almost any guy who has posted a picture on this site. She had never squatted or deadlifted in a consistent way before we started training. Once I taught her the correct form, loading parameters for strength, etc, she has clearly made body comp and strength gains in 8 weeks. She's pulling over 225lbs for RDL reps, squatting ATG nearly that, and is now able to chin and dip for a few reps (for someone who had never done either before). With that, her fat mass has decreased, with a slight increase in LBM. Sure, she is genetically gifted (still sprints a sub-13 100m, and sub-60 400m), and I'm suggesting she seek out a powerlifting gym (which she probably will shortly), it seems that lifting "like a man" really does work.

FWIW, I've been training with a girl (former NCAA sprinter) who has larger traps, quads, and hamstrings than almost any guy who has posted a picture on this site.

Yeah, but I think the whole point is that most women don't want larger traps, quads, and hamstrings than the average MALE weight trainer.

it seems that lifting "like a man" really does work.

But again, you are defining it "working" as putting on large amounts of muscle, which is exactly what the trainer mattblack talked to was saying.

I agree with Guava's post. The training has to be tailored to an individual's particular goals -- I do agree though, a woman can train like a man, and if she doesn't want to put on mass, she can eat at or below caloric maintenance.

I don't disagree but you could also add that these physiques take time and genetics. And then you have Valerie Waugaman (http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/valerie9.htm)who it seems does "toning" workouts.



For women whose goal physiques are closer to
Monica Brant
Jennifer Garner
Jelena Abbou
Kate Bosworth in Blue Crush
their training should be more weight-intensive.

It's really much easier when women keep their body type in mind when choosing fitness routines, and have a clear idea about their ideal physique.

Sorry for the rant above. I just get frustrated and I don't understand how the fitness industry continues to thrive. I believe that these PT's actually believe what they are saying or else they wouldn't argue their approaches. They also must have some level of success or else people wouldn't continue to pay them $50 and hour.

Well,

I personally would think that the way your working with your GF right now is a good way to go.Muscles really aren't very hard to lose;ergo if she's worried about "bulking up",just lighten up on the weights,do more cardio.I see it this way:it's hard to build up muscle,but easy to lose it.

K

basically i was told that girls bodies are completely different from men's, that doing heavy weight is the complete wrong way to be doing things, and that she needs to be using the pink dumbbells and doing a zillion reps. this is to build " long flexible muscles "

...

well. what do you think.

First, I think you need to calm down. Your posts regarding trainers and fellow gym go-ers are always so hostile.

Second, what exactly does she consider a proper rep range? Did she say your friend should be doing 8 reps? 12 reps? 15 reps? 20+ reps?

It's hard to judge the trainer's advice without knowing exactly what she recommended. Exaggerating the trainer's advice to make her look bad doesn't help us assess the situation.

And FWIW, while it's not the only way, higher rep workouts have been known to create very lean physiques.

I met a single guy who at 37 was doing high weigh/high volume sets.

I watched him walk into a gym one day, thorw on 500lbs and do 5 good sets of 50 squats without any wraps and with good form. His passion is powerlifting but he swore by high volume training.

The guy is somewhat of a local legend, especially among other powerlifters in the area. I have been told by many of these that if he enters a comp no one else will.


I'm not recommending anything here, but I know tons of martial artists (including the above) that swear by very high rep training.

Does anyone have any science to support this point of view?

Most of what I have seen for big guys is the standard low rep high weight type stuff. Just curious?

Does anyone have any science to support this point of view?

Most of what I have seen for big guys is the standard low rep high weight type stuff. Just curious?

Do a search on this site for posts by zenpharaohs. You will find lots of useful information on high rep training.

Yeah, but I think the whole point is that most women don't want larger traps, quads, and hamstrings than the average MALE weight trainer.



But again, you are defining it "working" as putting on large amounts of muscle, which is exactly what the trainer mattblack talked to was saying.

I agree with Guava's post. The training has to be tailored to an individual's particular goals -- I do agree though, a woman can train like a man, and if she doesn't want to put on mass, she can eat at or below caloric maintenance.

My point was that she had NEVER done any real weight training before. When she started (as is the case for many women), she lost fat mass and put on some slight LBM. I just described her body type because she is slightly genetically gifted, that's all. Just purely anecdotal. (That's why I prefaced it with "FWIW")

karatekicker:

i apologize if i am seeming to come across as hostile. honestly, i'm not trying to, and i'm one of the most friendly people you'll meet in person! Except when i'm about to do a set of reps for an exercise, then it's all game on and anger / concentration.

the trainer basically was trying to emphasize that you only need to work out with 5 or 10 lb dumbbells for like 20 reps at a time for a set... wtf is that!!! I guess it's maybe working towards training the endurance or lactate threshold or something like that, but i don't really see it acoomplishing much in the way of giving you an afterburn effect, or making muscles hungry the way heavy weights do. again, i'm just going by my personal experiences, what has worked for me, in losing around 35 lbs of fat, and picking up a little lbm along the way.

in the five years that I spent in tae kwon do (WTF not ITF), We would do very high reps in order to get the body used to functioning through lactate buildup, i guess it's called, like i said not knowingly earlier, increasing the lactate threshold. lactic threshold maybe? Sorry if the terminology is wrong. but that would help when sparring sometimes, we would combine the high intensity workouts with the extreme reps, and it would give us overall better performance and endurance when sparring for multiple rounds. etc.

at least that's what my experience was with it.

in the two weeks that my girl and i have been working out she says that already in changing her diet around and doing the combination of exercises that we do, some of her clothes fit differently already . not much, but enough to honestly be noticed.

i'm a firm believer in a combination and random mix and matching of the following:
- heavy weight, low rep, compound movement weight training, followed by a short HIIT session.
- bodyweight, medium to high rep, total body workout sessions.
- HIIT cardio sessions followed by a 10min LISS cooldown session.
- HIIT cardio surrounding a 15-20 min period of steady state cardio sessions.

these are the four main styles of workout that i do, to keep my body, and people that exercise with me, guessing. it's fun, and there are ALOT of variations that i base stuff off of. but i never do anything with weight less than 50% of my 1RM. that's just absurd if you ask me. like girls working out with 5lb dumbbells... does that REALLY accomplish anything!??!? even if they are balancing on the swiss ball, does moving the 5lb things really do anything!?!? Wouldn't doing heavier weight on the flat bench combined with more intense situps and crunches and twist crunches get you where youw ant to be while moving more weight AND keeping the intensity up??

I just don't see how an exercise can be working if you're not breaking a sweat.

And for the record, i have never seen this 'trainer' training someone while i've been at this gym. maybe all of her clients have different hours from me, even though i go to the gym as often as twice a day, every day sometimes.

i just don't know.

not trying to be a dick, maybe i come across wrong, that probably has to do with my age, lol.

KT, I think the main thing is that she undermined his way of training in front of this girl. She can have her way of training but she shouldn't downgrade his way of training. As you and I know most programs will work (at least for a while) as long as someone is putting in the effort which normally comes from people believing in the advice they are being given. Not cool in my opinion.

That is what got me fired up. Mainly because something similar happened to me. One of the people I help was doing lat-pulls..trainer comes over and tells him he is doing them wrong...my guy says "how do you do them"...he starts quoting him the rates for personal training sessions. Punk move in my opinion. All it did was create doubt in the form I had him doing

like girls working out with 5lb dumbbells... does that REALLY accomplish anything!??!? even if they are balancing on the swiss ball, does moving the 5lb things really do anything!?!? Wouldn't doing heavier weight on the flat bench combined with more intense situps and crunches and twist crunches get you where youw ant to be while moving more weight AND keeping the intensity up??I can't say for sure whether it does "nothing" or not, but it sure didn't do enough for me. I didn't start noticing any physique changes until I topped out on my 8 pound dumbbells, and started approaching something a little more substantial. In contrast to body size, which can be manipulated through dietary changes, and cardiovascular activity, a woman can't change the shape (ie. muscular definition and leanness) of her body until she changes the ratio of lean body mass to fat mass.

Hypertrophy results from progressive overload, so to gain lean body mass, a woman needs to increase the weight, reps and sets of her workouts. If I'd stuck with the 5 pound weights I started with, I'd be pretty tired doing my 350 reps by now.

It does seem odd that this woman doesn't appear to understand the basics of hypertrophy and what kind of changes it can make to a feminine physique.

I met a single guy who at 37 was doing high weigh/high volume sets.

I watched him walk into a gym one day, thorw on 500lbs and do 5 good sets of 50 squats without any wraps and with good form.

Does anyone have any science to support this point of view?

I would, had you not mentioned the 5x50x500# squat workout, have told you that I knew a bit about high volume workouts. I know some of the science.

23x500# is sort of the unofficial world record - the famous Tom Platz exhibition set:

_gZ_9YsvI1k

Are you sure you saw the guy do 5x50x500#?

Are you sure you saw the guy do 5x50x500#?
I wasn't going to say anything, but now that someone else has mentioned it I was kind of wondering the same thing. :confused:

KT, I think the main thing is that she undermined his way of training in front of this girl. She can have her way of training but she shouldn't downgrade his way of training. As you and I know most programs will work (at least for a while) as long as someone is putting in the effort which normally comes from people believing in the advice they are being given. Not cool in my opinion.

That is what got me fired up. Mainly because something similar happened to me. One of the people I help was doing lat-pulls..trainer comes over and tells him he is doing them wrong...my guy says "how do you do them"...he starts quoting him the rates for personal training sessions. Punk move in my opinion. All it did was create doubt in the form I had him doing
I didn't see the form you were advising your friend use, so I can't speak to it, but it's not like poor form and improper training methods are uncommon at gyms. I give people who work out hard credit, regardless of whether they research proper training techniques, but I'd say your average person in the gym does not. Personal trainers, as much as we love to knock them around here, do have more knowledge about training than your average gym go-er. Furthermore, they are paid to assist people, and the advice is not always sought. They are just trying to recruit clients. And you can't blame them. I'd do the same thing if I was a personal trainer.

I'm not saying I agree with a personal trainer completely blowing up someone's spot who's trying to train a friend. But if one comes by to offer advice, listen. You just might learn something. I know I have many times in the past. And if you just know the advice is downright terrible (which many times it is), simply thank the person and continue on your way. No sense in getting so heated over it, these people are trying to make a living. I've been to gyms where many of the personal trainers were garbage, and then there's gyms like my current one, where almost all are absolutely fantastic. Not all trainers are bad...

High reps is just burning time for a woman or a man.

I wasn't going to say anything, but now that someone else has mentioned it I was kind of wondering the same thing. :confused:

Well there are some stone badasses out there who aren't publicised that much, but with the internet, we'd have hoped to have heard about 50x500#, let alone 5x50x500#.

50x500# is mind blowing. It's more than double Platz; and the Platz (23x500#) is double Hatfield (11x500#).

High reps is just burning time for a woman or a man.

I disagree.

I disagree.
Me too.

I disagree.

It's burning time if you're using the same amount of weight, same number of reps, same rest period. Otherwise, it can fit into your goals.

However, depending on the definition of "high" reps, it's probably not the optimal way to increase lean body mass, which appeared to be the target goal of the OP.

It's burning time if you're using the same amount of weight, same number of reps, same rest period. Otherwise, it can fit into your goals.

However, depending on the definition of "high" reps, it's probably not the optimal way to increase lean body mass, which appeared to be the target goal of the OP.

i was doing some exercises with a girlfriend of mine, and a personal trainer came up and asked her what she was trying to do.

she replied burn off some fat and get in shape for summer.

I don't see any mention of increasing lean body mass. My current goal is to get in shape for summer, and I have no desire or intention of gaining any mass. I happen to train all over the rep map (10x3, 5x5, 5x10, 3x15, 2x20, etc), but it doesn't mean you'd have to if your main focus was to cut fat.

I don't see any mention of increasing lean body mass. My current goal is to get in shape for summer, and I have no desire or intention of gaining any mass. I happen to train all over the rep map (10x3, 5x5, 5x10, 3x15, 2x20, etc), but it doesn't mean you'd have to if your main focus was to cut fat.
That's why I wondered at first if he misunderstood her goals.

Whenever I want to get in shape for summer, it means lowering my body fat percentage, which usually requires gaining lean body mass at the same time as losing fat. (Keep in mind, that's for me. I agree it could be different for the woman in question.) Reps higher than 8 to 12 don't help me out much for that, but I don't know how others would respond to them.

I'm pretty confident in what I saw, though I won't claim infallibility as it was a few years ago. The guy's name was Mike Serr and at one point when I knew him he did some MMA stuff. I just spent the last 40 min trying to find his posts where he detailed out his training on one of the boards but it doesn't seem to exist anymore.

Statement withdrawn, no supporting evidence.

In my experience as a trainer, I have found that most women who seek out the advice of a professional WANT to hear exactly what the trainer told your friend: low weights, higher reps.

When pressed as to why they think that is the way to go, it invariably comes down to one of three answers:

1) Because I read that in XXX magazine (usually a "woman's" magazine like Self or Shape or Glamour or something).

2) Because I don't want to get big and muscular (usually followed by the word "toned" and a description of a hollywood starlet).

3) Because I don't want to get sweaty today and be sore tomorrow (usually followed by a quick look in the mirror and a quick adjustment of her clothing and hair).

And as a trainer, if that's what the client wants to do, I'm more than happy to put together a routine which meets those criteria. In fact, I have a whole notebook of those kinds of workout plans clipped from various magazines that I use for reference, mainly so I know what they are talking about when they ask if we can do "that exercise where you wrap the towel around your feet and lie down on one of those big balls and then crunch your abs up."

After all... I'm getting paid to make this person feel like they are accomplishing something... even if all they are really accomplishing is getting themselves into the "weighlifting" side of the gym a few times a week, going through the motions of lifting weights (actually they are almost always only interested in the pin selector machines and the dumbbell rack), and then being able to tell their friends that they have a personal trainer (just like the latest hollywood icon) who is helping them get into shape.

Was the trainer right to dismiss your workout plan as "wrong" in front of your friend? No. But at the same time, most facilities have a policy about allowing members to actively "personal train" other members or guests. I would have probably asked for a minute of your time and discussed it with you in private to make sure that you understood the rules of the club.

After all... you are basically taking money out of my pocket... and I have no way of knowing what your qualifications are to instruct another person. I'm certified, insured, and as a member of the staff, responsible for the safety of every person using that weight room. If something goes wrong, I'm the one who has to step in and take charge, applying first aid and calling 911... and I'm the one who is going to be individually named in the lawsuit (should it come to that) against the club if there is reason to believe that there was not due diligence on the part of the staff to maintain a safe environment.

One other point from your previous post: You mentioned that you don't recommend exercising with anything less than 50% of your 1RM. Did you do any 1RM testing with your friend? If not, how did you determine the weight ranges for her exercises? I've learned that most women can lift a lot more than they think they can... but they are afraid to do so. Taking a set to "failure" is a totally alien concept to most women. It's much easier to do twenty reps with 5lb dumbbells every time they come in... never increasing the weight, never trying a variation on the exercise, and never really pushing their limits.

After all... I'm getting paid to make this person feel like they are accomplishing something... even if all they are really accomplishing is getting themselves into the "weighlifting" side of the gym a few times a week, going through the motions of lifting weights (actually they are almost always only interested in the pin selector machines and the dumbbell rack), and then being able to tell their friends that they have a personal trainer (just like the latest hollywood icon) who is helping them get into shape.


Great post, PD. I do have an honest question regarding what you posted above, however. From a business standpoint, what do you invariably do when a client isn't reaching their goals (to "tone up") with the pre-fab, Self-magazine-designed routine? How do you delicately breach the touchy subject that they aren't putting in enough effort with their routine or diet, while still saving your business with this client? Is there a balance between keeping a client happy and saving their business, or graciously telling them that it really takes hard work (i.e. out of their comfort zone) to achieve what they want?

Great post, PD. I do have an honest question regarding what you posted above, however. From a business standpoint, what do you invariably do when a client isn't reaching their goals (to "tone up") with the pre-fab, Self-magazine-designed routine? How do you delicately breach the touchy subject that they aren't putting in enough effort with their routine or diet, while still saving your business with this client? Is there a balance between keeping a client happy and saving their business, or graciously telling them that it really takes hard work (i.e. out of their comfort zone) to achieve what they want?


It is a delicate balance. One key thing I tell my clients is that the only area of their progress I can influence is the hour that we spend together. What they do with the other 23 hours a day is far more important to the overall goal than what I'm helping them with at that moment. I can't control what they eat (and technically, a PT is not legally permitted to give more than basic nutrition information, otherwise we would be considered dietiticians and subject to state regulations similar to nurses, physical therapists, etc.), and I can't control whether or not they do the cardio which I recommend... and those are the two BIGGEST factors that influence success or failure for a particular individual.

Really, it comes down to establishing clear and realistic goals for what the desired outcome is, the timeframe available to try and achieve that outcome, and the roadmap to get them there. Often, just the process of figuring all that out will help the client to realize that, no matter what they read or see on TV, they are not going to look like a supermodel in six weeks.

And if we decide together that the "pink dumbbell tone-up plan" is the correct way to approach what they are trying to achieve, my mission is to help them make the most out of that workout. Hopefully, as they get more comfortable with the concept of "working out" on a regular basis and trust my direction and input, they will be more willing to stretch their comfort zone to try additional things.

After all... I'm getting paid to make this person feel like they are accomplishing something... even if all they are really accomplishing is getting themselves into the "weighlifting" side of the gym a few times a week, going through the motions of lifting weights (actually they are almost always only interested in the pin selector machines and the dumbbell rack), and then being able to tell their friends that they have a personal trainer (just like the latest hollywood icon) who is helping them get into shape. .

And if we decide together that the "pink dumbbell tone-up plan" is the correct way to approach what they are trying to achieve, my mission is to help them make the most out of that workout. Hopefully, as they get more comfortable with the concept of "working out" on a regular basis and trust my direction and input, they will be more willing to stretch their comfort zone to try additional things.

I don't judge you because this how most trainers think. Trainers are really at a disadvantage because they are in the fringe benefit service industry and if they didn't pump sunshine up their clients butts or if they make them work "too hard" then the average length of each clients time with that trainer would probably be too short to make a living.

HOWEVER, when I go to an expert mechanic I would hope due to his knowledge that he would not allow me to talk him into the problem being a $10 part because I read it in "Fix it yourself mechanic" magazine and actually would tell me that I need an engine overhaul.

But hell what do I know. Everytime I have been in the gym over the last couple years there is another trainer teaching a new client the step up into an arnold press complex. I have made fun of them for two years and now you can't find an online coach who isn't preaching complexes as the best way for fat loss. I guess everything has its turn in the spotlight.

I'm pretty confident in what I saw, though I won't claim infallibility as it was a few years ago. The guy's name was Mike Serr and at one point when I knew him he did some MMA stuff.

Well fighting sports is where you might expect to find someone that trains like that. I have found some references to him on the web; maybe I'll find an e-mail address and we can ask him what sort of long rep squat training he did. Even if it's not 5x50x500#, it sounds interesting. 5x50 of anything noticable is interesting.

actually the first two weeks we established 1rms after the initial break in and soreness.

1rm bench - 90 lbs
1rm leg press - 295 lbs
1rm assisted pullup - 50 lbs
1rm assisted dip - 60 lbs

we base everything else off of that. i know i'm not allowed to train her because i'm not certified.
but as a good friend i can answer her questions she asks me when she asks how i lost 40 lbs , 35 of which were fat, and what diet / meals work and which ones don't work.

i ask her what she wants to work out today, then she says chest, or legs, or cardio , or wahtever.

then i ask ok, wanna work with db's, flat bench, machines, whatever, and she says that

then from that i ask her ok what kind of exercise, etc.

all i really do is i pick the weights and the rep reccomendations because she is'nt sure how to choose those just yet. same thing for the rest intervals.

And if we decide together that the "pink dumbbell tone-up plan" is the correct way to approach what they are trying to achieve, my mission is to help them make the most out of that workout.

I'm not convinced that light weights are such a huge limitation. There are quite a few light weight dumbell exercises that can bust you up pretty fast. And I'm not just talking about obvious things like pistol squats.

i know i'm not allowed to train her because i'm not certified.

No, you CAN train her. There isn't a law against it (as far as I know). The gym/club may have rules against the practice, since they are a business and have deals with certified trainers who give a cut to the gym. However, if she is your training partner, I can't imagine a gym giving you a hard time helping her out. If they did, they would have to split up all training partners from encouraging a good lift. And, if they did that to me, I would take my business somewhere else.

Philly has a good point, regarding the gym's responsibility to help if she go into cardiac arrest, but they would be under the same obligations if you were squatting alone and tore your quad. I can only imagine a responsibility issue if you weren't being reasonable in your exercises (e.g. using a 45lb plate as a frisbee).

When I go to an expert mechanic I would hope due to his knowledge that he would not allow me to talk him into the problem being a $10 part because I read it in "Fix it yourself mechanic" magazine and actually would tell me that I need an engine overhaul.

I agree 100% with this analogy. The thing is that most of the clients I deal with on a regular basis (especially at the YMCA) already KNOW they need an engine overhaul. But all they want the mechanic to do is give them the $10 part they read about so at least they feel like they are making an attempt to start fixing the car.

Actually the first two weeks we established 1rms ... i know i'm not allowed to train her because i'm not certified...
but as a good friend i can answer her questions.

Matt, I meant no disrespect to your knowledge and abilities (which, from what I've read of your posts, are considerable). You can answer her questions, you can recommend exercises and sets and reps, you can spot her during her lifts, you can give her nutrition information... hell, you can probably do more than I could because you are her friend, and she's not paying you (or the club) for your assistance. But once money changes hands, it becomes a whole different ball game as far as liability goes.

If you put together a plan that includes 20 minutes of HIIT cardio and she has a heart attack, it's unfortunate, but no different legally than if she was to read that idea in a magazine or hear about it on TV. She obtained information "on her own" and misapplied it to her situation. But if she comes to me to develop a plan, and pays my employer for those services (who in turn pays me), and I suggest that modality and she dies, the estate is coming after the company I work for AND me personally. The YMCA has insurance which covers their ass (and mine as an employee), and I also have insurance which covers mine even further (especially since I now do one-on-one training in my own facility).

If you suggest to her that she eat fewer carbs (or if she reads that in a magazine or hears it on TV), and she gets lightheaded while driving and passes out and causes a wreck, there's no one at fault but herself. But if she's paying my for my "expert" guidance, and something like that happens, I'm the one getting sued because I told her to eat that way, acting outside my qualifications as a trainer. Since my employer has set a policy that trainers are not permitted to give specific nutritional advice (and has a dietician on staff to do so), my cookies are hanging in the wind.

If you put your fingers between her shoulder blades to show her the area to focus on during a lat pulldown, that's probably fine because you know each other. If I touch the client without asking permission first, and specifically saying what I am doing to do and why I am going to do it, I'm wide open for a sexual harassment complaint. Even if it's not a formal disciplinary action, all it takes is for the rumour to get around that "XXX trainer tried to cop a feel of so-and-so while they were working out" and I'm not getting any new clients.

To be honest, when I took the in-class portion of my certification course, these issues were a big topic of discussion, and were things I had not considered before. And I really debated whether or not I truly wanted to become a trainer because of the liability involved. But I went forward with it, and obtained the protection I needed, and I'm glad I did. If you choose to get your certification, I wish you all the best.

ps. - see you at the cheat meal! :eat:

Anyone mention this article?

http://www.musclewithattitude.com/readTopicMwa.do?id=1500416