Hi everyone,

My name is Denis and this is my first post since discovering this site almost a month ago.
Since May 5, I've been on a strict diet and exercising 3-4 times a week.
I'm 22 years old, 5ft 6in and began my diet at 196lbs. As of May 19 I had dropped 10lbs.

Here's the problem, I see no physical difference. None.
My pants feel slightly (and I do mean slightly) looser, that's it. Oh and I can run/jog a little longer now without tiring out so easily.

My diet consists of many of the foods that are on the sticky post in this fat loss/cutting forum.
I'm consuming between 1300-1900 calories with 1590 being the average over the span of my diet. Though I aim for 40/40/20 i'm averaging 47/36/17. I drink only water (and 1% milk in the morning).

Exercise routine consists of jogging 1-mile & playing basketball 3-4 times a week. Twice a week I will do HIIT for 15-20 minutes.

I feel I'm on the right path but feel slightly discouraged after losing 10 pounds and seeing no physical difference (my weekly pictures show none).

Could it be water weight that I've lost?

I'd appreciate any advice and/or critique of my regimen. Thanks a bunch!

Denis

You are seeing a difference. Your clothes are a little looser. The 10 lbs you've lost doesn't come off one single spot. It's spread over your whole body. It's hard to notice something like that.

You are seeing a difference. Your clothes are a little looser. The 10 lbs you've lost doesn't come off one single spot. It's spread over your whole body. It's hard to notice something like that.

Ditto this,...Keep at it,..Take pictures. You will be surprised how different you look when comparing pictures a few weeks apart. Day to day, little thiongs just aren't noticed.

Get yourself lined up on some resistance training,and you should notice an excelereated amount of progress,..This is important as well, to preserve lean mass,...Double check your intake as well,..Seems low to me,..Especially if you start any type of weight training.

>>>--->

I know 1500 calories seems low but my body has actually adapted to it to the point where I feel full in eating the things I do. Would eating when I'm not hungry just to reach a specific calorie intake be good for me? Especially when I do start resistance training?

Are you lifting weights as well? Are you consuming enough protein? Are you doing cardio in the morning on an empty stomach?

You may have lost a little bit of muscle, in addition to the fat you have lost. Answers to the questions above, may help diagnose this better. This is most likely the case though, because it's hard to lose 10 pounds in two weeks without losing a little bit of muscle in the process.

Nevertheless, keep working hard, and you'll see that stomach start to flatten out soon. :cool:

I was not lifting weights because I wanted to condition my body first but next week I will start weight training and yes I am consuming between 80-160 grams of protein a day. I do cardio when I get a chance in the mornings but mainly afternoons or evenings and not on an empty stomach. But why does that affect progress? Calories burned are calories burned. No?
Thanks!

Denis

I was not lifting weights because I wanted to condition my body first but next week I will start weight training and yes I am consuming between 80-160 grams of protein a day. I do cardio when I get a chance in the mornings but mainly afternoons or evenings and not on an empty stomach. But why does that affect progress? Calories burned are calories burned. No?
Thanks!

Denis

Correct me if I'm wrong people but as I understand it when you do cardio in the morning (empty stomach) your body feeds off of the stored fat cells. The first thing it looks for is what in your body, so if you have eaten an hour or two before, then your energy is going to come from what you've eaten before starting to break away the fat cells in your body.

So, either perform cardio longer if you run in the afternoons (or after you eat) to get into the 'fat burning zone' or run your cardio in the morning on an empty stomach to lose it more effectively.

I was not lifting weights because I wanted to condition my body first but next week I will start weight training and yes I am consuming between 80-160 grams of protein a day. I do cardio when I get a chance in the mornings but mainly afternoons or evenings and not on an empty stomach. But why does that affect progress? Calories burned are calories burned. No?
Thanks!

Denis
Yes, but when you do cardio on an empty stomach (especially in the morning) it uses protein/muscle for energy. ;)

Correct me if I'm wrong people but as I understand it when you do cardio in the morning (empty stomach) your body feeds off of the stored fat cells. The first thing it looks for is what in your body, so if you have eaten an hour or two before, then your energy is going to come from what you've eaten before starting to break away the fat cells in your body.

So, either perform cardio longer if you run in the afternoons (or after you eat) to get into the 'fat burning zone' or run your cardio in the morning on an empty stomach to lose it more effectively.
It's not about what type of calories you burn, it's all about calories in vs. calories out for weight loss.

For more info on why cardio at a fasted state, read the following excerpt from an article by bodybuilder Layne Norton. Although he may not be a bodybuilder, the same principles apply:


Cardiovascular exercise has several myths surrounding it. The largest myth being that one should perform low intensity cardio in a fasted state. The logic being that if one is in a fasted state, their glycogen levels will be low and will force their body to burn fat. Unfortunately, this idea is misguided.

While performing cardio in a fasted state may indeed increase the amount of calories that are burned from fat stores, it will also increase amino acid oxidation. Cardiovascular exercise while in a fasted state is a great way to increase cortisol release. Cortisol will liberate amino acids to produce glucose (glucose cannot be synthesized from fats) and can lead to muscle loss.
Additionally, I find it ironic that many people take such great care to time their meals so that they do not go for more than 2-3 hours without eating in order to prevent muscle loss. However, they purposefully induce this state and then perform work on top of this!

Research has shown that the type of substrate used during cardiovascular work makes little overall difference on fat loss. This is most likely due to the fact if one relies mostly upon fat stores during cardio (i.e. low intensity cardio), the body will burn predominantly glucose at other times of the day. Likewise, if one mainly utilizes glucose for energy during cardio (i.e. high intensity cardio) the body will customarily rely on fat at other times of the day in order to spare muscle glycogen.

Training in and of itself causes the body to preferentially spare muscle glycogen and burn fat. It makes sense that one should strive to do their cardio on their 'off days' from lifting (as to not further hinder their recovery), and plan their carbohydrate intake similar to their lifting regime.

Cardiovascular work will increase nutrient partitioning towards muscle tissue and away from fat tissue. One should take advantage of this by consuming the bulk of their carbohydrate intake around this time. The benefits are that these nutrients induce fat storage, but will rather be stored in muscle tissue.
Why would you want to deny your muscles nutrients at the most crucial time of the day, but then provide them during rest? It does not make sense. Treat your cardiovascular work like your lifting.

It's not about what type of calories you burn, it's all about calories in vs. calories out for weight loss.

For more info on why cardio at a fasted state, read the following excerpt from an article by bodybuilder Layne Norton. Although he may not be a bodybuilder, the same principles apply:

This topic has been debated here ad nauseum, and will not be settled. Some people swear by fasted cardio, while others do cardio at differing times, while others make great progress with none. SwoleCat (a sponsor here) is ripped and does fasted cardio. Many of us don't care enough to get up in the morning.

Either way, get active. The amount of muscle breakdown or fat lipolysis is so minimal in fasted LISS that it shouldn't be an issue. Do whatever cardio YOU want to do. YOU will get in better shape either way.

This topic has been debated here ad nauseum, and will not be settled. Some people swear by fasted cardio, while others do cardio at differing times, while others make great progress with none. SwoleCat (a sponsor here) is ripped and does fasted cardio. Many of us don't care enough to get up in the morning.

Either way, get active. The amount of muscle breakdown or fat lipolysis is so minimal in fasted LISS that it shouldn't be an issue. Do whatever cardio YOU want to do. YOU will get in better shape either way.
^^^^^^^

What he said sums it all up . Sorry to go off topic in your thread, dtmheat. Keep working hard and you'll see results.

Add weights to the routine. Cut back on the cardio.

Thanks everyone for their advice!!
I will certaintly add the weights into my routine starting tomorrow.

Defnitely get the weights into the workout plan. I'd argue their more important for body recomposition (including fat loss) than cardio. Lifting increases metabolism over longer periods of time than most cardio will do.

Diet->Resistance Training->Cardio

I think this (http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1526539) is an excellent read on the subject.

Also, there is reason to eat even when you aren't hungry. Smaller spread out meals help keep the metabolism going, and combined with lifting, eating enough will keep you from burning through muscle along with some fat.

At your weight right now, I would personally eat a bit more, especially if you start lifting.

What are your lifting plans? Have you planned out your workouts? People here can help you make that as effective as it can be for you if you want to post what you intend to do.

Some of the best advice I have recieved (though most of the time I don't follow it) is don't count your 5s and 10s, count your 15s and 20s.

It seems kinda unmotivating, but it works pretty well.

I weigh daily and record my weight daily. I'm generally within .5 lbs every day of where I was the day before, but I still make a major note every time I'm down a full pound or two.

I count every two pounds as a success, but i set my milemarkers at 10, 15, and 20 because at 10 lbs you can see some changes, at 15 you start noticing improvement, and at 20 you look like a different person to everyone else and have to go buy new pants.

Some of the best advice I have recieved (though most of the time I don't follow it) is don't count your 5s and 10s, count your 15s and 20s.

This seems like fair advice and a great motivator.
MannishBoy,

I have access to a full gym at work so I plan on doing:
chest/tri/bi (2x per week)
legs/back/shoulders (2x per week) and
2 days of cardio. One full day off.

For weight loss purposes what is more effective, lighter weight/hi reps or heavy weights/low reps?

Thanks again everyone for your advice.

I have access to a full gym at work so I plan on doing:
chest/tri/bi (2x per week)
legs/back/shoulders (2x per week) and
2 days of cardio. One full day off.

For weight loss purposes what is more effective, lighter weight/hi reps or heavy weights/low reps?


A better plan is lower body (mon/thur) and upper body (tues/fri).

For mon (upper) and fri (lower), do higher reps- 3x12 or something similar.

For tue (lower) and thurs (upper), do lower reps, higher weight - 4x6 or 5x5.

as for ANY beginner i can just suggest what i have been doing for the past half year.

FULL BODY WORKOUT 3 times a week.

each exercise one warmup and 3 work sets with 8 reps

1.) Squats
2.) Benchpress
3.) Military Press
4.) Bent Forward Rows
5.) Lat Pulldown
6.) Bicep Curls
7.) Calf Raises
8.) Abs - two exercises of your choice, two sets 20 reps each

This seems like fair advice and a great motivator.
MannishBoy,

I have access to a full gym at work so I plan on doing:
chest/tri/bi (2x per week)
legs/back/shoulders (2x per week) and
2 days of cardio. One full day off.

For weight loss purposes what is more effective, lighter weight/hi reps or heavy weights/low reps?

Thanks again everyone for your advice.

If you are just starting out, I'd stick to reps in the 8-12 rep range for a few months. Then I'd probably up the weight and lower the reps for SOME of the workouts.

I'm like TB above, I'd recommend and upper/lower split, or I'd go with a good full body plan 3x a week (my favorite). If you want to lift 4x a week once you get into the grove for a couple of months and get the joints and connective tissue primed for it, I'd look at something like Waterbury's ABBH (http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=244anti2) plan. You can do it on a cut just fine.

I don't like to see beginners waste a lot of time on smaller muscles like biceps and triceps. They'll get worked doing other bigger compound movements anyway, and your time in the gym is better spent on the big movers because they have a bigger impact to your metabolism (and therefore your muscle growth and fat burning).

A couple of things that haven't been touched on yet:

1) 80-160g of protein? That's a pretty big range. That means your diet is pretty inconsistent. You should be shooting for 1g of protein per lb. of body weight per day. 80g is waaaaaay to low for someone your size.

2) You said you lost 10 lbs. in a couple of weeks. That really doesn't happen, in terms of either muscle or fat, unless you are seriously unhealthy.

I have no doubt that you actually did lose 10 lbs., but most of it was water weight. This is extremely normal for when you start cutting. You probably lost a few pounds of actual body mass and the rest was water. You'll find that your weight loss levels off after a while. You should be shooting for 1-1.5 lbs. lost per week. Much more than that and you're most assuredly losing muscle.

Similarly, if and when you start a bulking cycle you'll find that you probably gain a few pounds in a very short period of time. Again, this is water weight and is totally normal.

And yeah, as others already said: Hit the weights! For healthy fat loss weights are just as important as cardio, if not moreso.

A couple of things that haven't been touched on You should be shooting for 1-1.5 lbs. lost per week. Much more than that and you're most assuredly losing muscle..

Actually the fatter you are, the faster you can lose. Someone at 300lbs and 30% bodyfat can lose 3-5lbs a week and not lose muscle, especially if they weight train.

There is a study showing the maximum fat loss per lb. of fat per day in the body is about 31 kcal per pound.

So multiply your fat weight by 31 and that is the maximum deficit you can do before you lose LBM. Obviously the leaner you get the lower this number.

e.g.

A 180lb guy at 10% body fat has 18lbs of fat on him.

18 x 31 = 558 kcal per day is the maximum energy deficit he can expend in fat before he starts to lose muscle even if he is weight training. So that guy should not shoot for more than about 1lb fat a week, or he is certain to lose muscle.

On the other hand, the 300lb guy at 30% bodyfat can produce 2790 kcal of a deficit per day (90lbs fat x 31) before muscle loss starts. If his maintenance is 15x300 = 4500 kcal, he can literally cut his calories down to about 1710 kcal per day (2790 deficit) and still lose about 5.5 lbs of blubber a week. Fat beginners can also gain muscle while dieting for this reason.

Conversely the opposite is true with lean folks, lean bodybuilders often start out at 10% and lose a chunk of LBM while dieting down too quickly, since once you hit 7-10%, anything over 0.5-1.0lb of fat per week is going to be muscle.

As of May 19 I had dropped 10lbs.

Here's the problem, I see no physical difference. None.

Yeah I posted about the exact same phenomenon in my journal... I'm not too worried though. "Physical difference" to me means seeing my body look fit instead of fat, and since I have plenty of fat left to lose, I know my body will basically have the same shape for another month or two. When we creep closer to 12-14% body fat, I'm sure we'll suddenly realize how far we've come.

One thing I have noticed, though, is that even though I don't see a difference with my shirt off, I can definitely see a change (in weight) with it on... maybe you've noticed this too.

gl

One thing I have noticed, though, is that even though I don't see a difference with my shirt off, I can definitely see a change (in weight) with it on... maybe you've noticed this too.

gl

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Great observation! This is definetely true.I look slimmer from a profile view and shirts fit looser.

After 2 days of cutting, I see the most change in my face. I'm still fairly new to cutting and bulking and all that, so maybe that's why I see changes so quickly.

Taking pictures is a great idea, but some people are definitely more photogenic than others. I see more changes in the mirror from day to day than I see in my photos.

After 2 days of cutting, I see the most change in my face. I'm still fairly new to cutting and bulking and all that, so maybe that's why I see changes so quickly.

Taking pictures is a great idea, but some people are definitely more photogenic than others. I see more changes in the mirror from day to day than I see in my photos.

I bet most of that weight in your face you notice was from water retention(edema). Your sodium intake might be lower so you are peeing out the excess water, and/or you could also be dropping water from low-carbohydate dieting as well.