I (think I) just discovered a glaring hole in my plan. Up until now, I'd been downing a whey shake and something else with a decent protein % (morningstar patties, go lean, etc) within an hour after my workouts. Protein:Carbs on these meals has been anywhere from 2:1 to 4:1. Now, I've read in several places that I should have at least a 4:1 Carb:Protein ratio on post-workout meals, for glycogen. Otherwise, I've read, my body will just grab what it needs from the muscles themselves.

While I'll start tossing more carbs in post-workout now, I'm wondering if my high protein consumption after weight sessions has perhaps canceled out most of the benefits of those sessions. I'm also wondering if there are any common EZ-mode post workout concoctions - shakes, foods, whatever - out there that I don't know of.

I (think I) just discovered a glaring hole in my plan. Up until now, I'd been downing a whey shake and something else with a decent protein % (morningstar patties, go lean, etc) within an hour after my workouts. Protein:Carbs on these meals has been anywhere from 2:1 to 4:1. Now, I've read in several places that I should have at least a 4:1 Carb:Protein ratio on post-workout meals, for glycogen. Otherwise, I've read, my body will just grab what it needs from the muscles themselves.

While I'll start tossing more carbs in post-workout now, I'm wondering if my high protein consumption after weight sessions has perhaps canceled out most of the benefits of those sessions. I'm also wondering if there are any common EZ-mode post workout concoctions - shakes, foods, whatever - out there that I don't know of.

i usually do 25-30g simple carbs (banana) with 25g protein and BCAAs PRE workout

and then i usually do 25-30g complex carbs (oats) with 25g protein and BCAAs POST workout.

they are saying that pre workout nutrition is more important than post workout nutrition.

Otherwise, I've read, my body will just grab what it needs from the muscles themselves.

That's way exaggerated - you can make progress without any recovery drinks whatsoever, as long you have a solid nutrition program behind. Of course it helps to speed the recovery if you use the "post-workout window" properly.

While I'll start tossing more carbs in post-workout now, I'm wondering if my high protein consumption after weight sessions has perhaps canceled out most of the benefits of those sessions. I'm also wondering if there are any common EZ-mode post workout concoctions - shakes, foods, whatever - out there that I don't know of.

Nope. It hasn't canceled the benefits. You have probably wasted some expensive protein though since the drinks are used to satisfy the energy demand.

I'm having a quite small recovery drink, with 20 g. of whey protein (sometimes milk protein blend) and 40 g. of maltrodextrin. I sip half of it during exercise, and the other half afterwards. After I come home, I eat more carbs than usual in the first solid meal (bread, oatmeal, pasta, potatoes, whatever). If it was a tough workout, I eat extra carbs also in the second meal afterwards.

they are saying that pre workout nutrition is more important than post workout nutrition.

Hey Matt, I would say do some more reading on that. Right now, all the scientific literature still focuses on post-workout nutrition, and most of those have generally come to a conclusion that fast acting carbs (simple sugars, no fiber) + fast acting protein (whey isolate (good) or whey hydrolysate (better)) is the best PWO shake. The pre/during theories are still anecdotal but suggest that they aid in anabolism and recovery.

Many lifters have used a mix of maltodextrin/dextrose plus whey in a 2:1 ratio with very good results (blunt catabolism, increase insulin, shuttle nutrients). Recently, waxy maize has made some friends in some circles as a replacement for the sugars, as they claim it is quicker digesting.

Is sugar a good post workout (lifting) carb to have? I generally have some strawberries or mixed fruit after lifting.

Is sugar a good post workout (lifting) carb to have? I generally have some strawberries or mixed fruit after lifting.

I should clarify. What many suggest (and I wrote about above) is considered optimal. How much improvement over some fruit and some chicken is a sugar/whey shake? 10%? 25%? 0.4235%? I don't really know- many of the control groups in the studies had nothing PWO compared to carbs, some studies nothing vs. protein vs. carbs, and some nothing vs. carbs vs. carbs/protein. The carbs/protein have shown to produce the greatest results in muscle gain/retention and body composition.

But how much better is it than whole food sources? I would think not a huge amount, since lifters of yesteryear (and many today) didn't use supplements. Did they eat meats and drink milk? They sure did.

I would say having some carbs and protein after lifting is a good practice to get into. To be optimal, have a liquid shake of fast acting protein and sugars.

thanks tennisball :)

You might consider reading this book: Nutrient Timing: The Future of Sports Nutrition by John Ivy and Robert Portman. It goes into pretty good detail on Nutrition including Pre and Post nutrition. I think has 3 phases with a breakdown of each into seperate sub groups.... If I remember right most fruits are low glycemic and dont spike insulin fast enough to take advantage of the 1 hour window. Bananas are like 51. Watermelon is 72 though so they might be a better choice. Don't get me wrong, any carbs for post workout seem to be advantagous. But from what i've read a person wants the simple sugars to cause a rapid insulin spike to take your body out of a catabolic state and into a anabolic state. Whey protien also seems to cause the fastest rise in blood amino's so usually whey/dextrose or malto is used.

Watermelon is 72 though so they might be a better choice.[/SIZE]

Watermelon is also very low in Glycemic Load, so you'd have to eat a whole watermelon to get enough carbs to do any good :D Also, fructose is a primary sugar in fruit, and it mostly restores liver glycogen, not muscle glycogen. So I like other stuff around workouts with fruit in the morning after your body has used liver glycogen overnight.

When I'm cutting, my carbs are reduced in the WO window. I'm not so sure a big insulin spike is what you necessarily need, you just want to replenish glycogen periodically.

So I go with a 1:1 carb ratio during workout (1 scope whey isolate, 20-30 g dex/malto mix), then skip the sugary carbs PWO and go immediately into a P+F meal 30-60 minutes later. I recover just fine, and have found my fat loss seems better.

I will add some carb meals in periodically to replenish glycogen and keep the metabolism up. Not full blown refeed days, but with a similar idea.

If I'm trying to maintain or bulk, I up the carbs during and immediately PWO, then have a P+C meal next.

I don't recommend that this is optimal for everybody, but I've experimented around and seem to do better like this right now.

I almost never have very many carbs in the window either. From what Ive read they primarily help durring the bulking phases. Since I'm in a keto diet right now I only have like 15 grams of dextrose in my PWO with 20-25 grams of whey and none really in my Pre. Other than that all of my carbs right now come from veggies. But if I was bulking I would consider using 30g or so in my PWO and like 10g in my pre.... I kinda didn't think about the GL of watermelon until I read it just now. I personally hate watermelon and the thought of eating over 10 cups to get enough sugar makes me shutter!