http://ncogni.to/gallery/d/4168-1/april10-biceps.jpg

i want to say i got about 15-20% size gain out of 5 weeks out of my 8 week OVT (optimized volume training) program. i'm very impressed. my curls went from 20lb dumbbells to 35 lb dumbbells. I've always been a weakling with my arms, like for real, serious weakling in my arms. but i've FINALLY started to get somewhere with them.

i'm 5'10, 148 lbs. very small frame style build. but i woudl like to get a little bit more upper body, while losing a little more of the belly fat.

I'm looking for a program to hit at the end of this 8 week OVT program.

some suggestions would be awesome guys, thanks.

also, how does the left biceps look? is it shapen weird or anything like that? Does it look like i need to change my exercise style or the exercises done to make the shape better? Are some peoples arms genetics built to make them have a better looking biceps ? or is that simply due to the exercise??

Right now i'm doing

Preacher Curl with db's in each hand 5 reps, immedialy followed by incline open arm curls with light weight 5 reps.
rest 120 seconds repeat
do this five times

back against the wall curls with dbs in each hand 5 reps, immediatly followed by incline open arm curls with light weight 5 reps.
rest 120 seconds repeat
do this five times

done. that's my 100 reps for the day for my bi's.

my back day is 2 days later, and the bi's are almost always repaired enough to do the back work assistance by then.

thanks in advance gang.

sorry if i type way too much. it's way too easy for me

Please read this thread:

http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?t=35553


Also, squat and deadlift. Your whole body will grow.

Also, squat and deadlift. Your whole body will grow.

Totally:nod:

-- definitely curl
-- but spend most of your time on upper back work (rows and pull-ups/downs) and deadlifts
-- drop your curl volume down lower for a while (30 total reps) and try that out
-- spend comparable time on those triceps too
-- consider trying antagonist supersets, e.g. biceps supersetted with triceps or vice versa
-- eat enough to build mass and worry about that belly fat later
-- give it time and work progressively, i.e. try to increase weight or reps as often as possible

can i get these bigger?
Definatly.
You may want to relax that flex just a wee bit though, cause you look like your going to crap your pants if you flex any harder :lol:

My new favorite exercise is reverse grip BB rows. The day after the first time I did them was the first time I have EVER managed to make my biceps hurt (inside or outside the gym). If you havent already, try them ;)

And as those guys said, heavy leg exercises (squats, deadlifts, lunges, that sorta thing) will make your whole body grow. Long story short, hormones.


Chris.

Of course you can increase your bicepts, it just takes time. You've had good noob gains in the 5 weeks of your program, so if you keep going you'll grow. You must be dedicated and keep at it. You're pretty light so you should consider a clean bulk for overall growth.

A lot of growth happens as a result of your diet. If you really want to ad lean mass you will have to set aside the illusion that you can also maintain a set of six pack abs.

Clean bulk first, then work on your abs. You will grow.

couple of quick points mate

1 Yes there is potential for atleast another 10 inches onto them IMO
2. Triceps make up 2/3 of your arm, big triceps will make your arm bigger
3. Biceps are small muscles relative to the big picture, don't overtrain them
4. As commented above, Big Compounds are the way to go for size, squat,dead, bench,OHP (pro bodybuilders who spend hrs now doing isolation work will have started off working the big compounds, at least for the first 2 years IMO)

keep at it mate,

JJ

Sometimes I wonder if you guys keep any comprehension from any of my previous posts. I've already said I have MAJOR workouts with squats and deadlifts, as well as clean and jerks. I do alot of stuff with my legs, back, etc. The full body lifts are my favorite ones.

I'm workingon my tri's, i've been exercising for about 15 months now, i'm not exactly a newbie to this. It's weird though how my body has NEVER been very receptive to gains in my arms until now. my chest is a different story, but my arms, man, it's really irritating.

I'll keep at it. My favorite days are back and full body.

Also, I'm not going to bulk, i dont' really see a need for it. I'd rather get slowly toned, and slowly get a little bit larger. I've been a runner as long as I can remember, I run with my mom, i run with everyone, and it's pretty much always going to happen. I don't like to put on fat, so if the only way to put on muscle is to put on fat also, i guess i'm just not going to put on muscle! :) i'll get stronger some other way, maybe i just won't get the size.
efficiency over brute volume.

high revving small aluminum four cylinders over low revving huge displacement v8's anyday, baby.\

oh and that flex wasn't that serious. i always have a pissed off look to my face. let me do a SERIOUS SERIOUS flex for you hahaha, then i'll have a red sock, lol.

Sometimes I wonder if you guys keep any comprehension from any of my previous posts.

Some folks may not have seen your previous posts. Some may not have become familiar enough with your avatar/id to associate you with the posts they've already read.

...and in some cases: The advice remains the same regardless of what bodypart you're trying to focus on.

It's weird though how my body has NEVER been very receptive to gains in my arms until now.

Also, I'm not going to bulk, i dont' really see a need for it.

That's fine, just understand that your gains are going to be considerably slower in a caloric deficit.

Thank you, i appreciate the words.

Yeah, hard work always pays off..

But it's weird. I've tried , I wanna say, 5 different programs in terms of, 8-10 weeks of specific exercises, on specific days, with specific rest periods. None of them have really 'opened my eyes' compared to this OVT training.

This is the first one that i was like, WOW, this crap actually is working!! Even with me only eating 2300 calories a day!! So I guess I"m sort of wow'd.

I'd done pyramids before, and 10-5-3 to fails, and 3x10's, and all sorts of stuff like that, as well as mixed group exercises, like an 'arm day' where i do bi's and tri's together. ANd yeah, my arms are huge during the pump, but afterwards it's like. oh by the way, no real gain.

Does this make any sense at all??
:cry:

Do more heavy triceps work or dips that where arm size comes from. Do heavy (no less than 60 lbs or work up to it) straight barbell curls strict (elbows firmly against side through out exercise) with good focus. 8-12 rep range.

By the way, we see about 10-20 new people join up a week, in a month 40-80. Avatar rarely show the person. Sometimes you don't know if you are talking to a man or woman, boy or man, Brad Pitt or Woody Allen. It is tough keeping up with turnover and we do a damn good job in the long run, for what we are paid.

Also, I'm not going to bulk, i dont' really see a need for it. I'd rather get slowly toned, and slowly get a little bit larger.

No such thing as toning. You are referring to reducing bodyfat.

slowly get a little bit larger

You have to be hypercaloric....there's no way to make something out of nothing. You can't grow without a surplus of food. You can reduce your bodyfat to gain definition and the "appearance" of size. In terms of physcial measurements... you have to eat and train.

How much fat you gain is in your control. No one said you have to gain a lot of fat to grow.

You are doing way too much isolation work in my opinion. Some curls is fine, but I'd keep it to 2 sets. With biceps (YMMV) I find less is more. It's quite possible they are overworked. Forget the 'FLEX' style 100 reps to add an inch type stuff. Not possible except for the elite and/or chemically enhanced or you might pull it off if your work capacity is there after a couple of years of training.


Bicep shape is a genetic thing, don't even bother worrying about it.

As mentioned biceps grow with the rest of you. Get weighted chins into your program and focus on triceps.

Quote:- " Done. That's my 100 reps for the day for my bi's".


The only program I've ever heard of that recommmends 100 reps is Chad Waterbury. And his 100 rep program is about "greasing the groove" on an off day. The weight you would use for this is a fraction of your workout weight. And you would do it in blocks of 20 over the day. His 100 rep program is not about using it as a workout.

100 reps for biceps in a workout will not get them bigger.

You need to cut the rep volume in spades.

Anywhere from 1 set of 12 to failure to 3 sets of 10 failing on the last rep of the last set would better basically. And don't stick to the same bicep ex all the time.

Who told you to do 100 reps for bi's?

If you're going "endurance", 100 reps might work. If you're going "growth", 100 reps won't work because you can't get the required intensity with a rep set like that. You might get it for a couple of days but very,very soon you'll be overtrained on bi's with no growth.

here is what i have done for thel ast five weeks that has worked very well for me.

Like i said, i'm going to do something new at the end of the 8 week period.

http://www.fituncensored.com/forums/sistemi-di-allenamento/4058-ovt-optimazed-volume-training-c-thibaudeau.html

eat and do compound lifts.. dont even worry about your arms yet.. they will grow just from back and chest workouts..
if anything throw in one bicep exercise at the end of a back workout.. and one tricep exercise at the end of a chest workout...


oh yah and eat.. you are a small guy.. eat.. lift... and if you are really worried about putting on fat do some cardio

do this program

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459341

and here is the diet to follow

http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/masseating_rl_1.htm
http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/masseating_rl_2.htm
http://www.johnberardi.com/updates/july262002/na_masscalculator.htm

Oh....yeah....good ol' 10x10 GVT.

Quote from article " a tIme-proven approach ".... maybe for some. But for many...no.

And obviously it isn't working for you.

Think about it. Do you really need 10 sets of 10 for hypertrophy?

No you don't. Not for biceps anyway.

If you do 10sets of 10 failing on the last rep of the 10th.set., probably 8 of those sets were wasted effort only serving to diminish your intensity.

This is why in the article he claims hypertrophy occurred but in many instances the trainee actually got weaker.

If you are at or near failure on the last rep of each set (10 in total),
this is overkill (unless you're a certified "juicer").

And, doing that your intensity will still fall off anyway.

If you want to get BIG and STRONG, you've got to try a different approach.

If I was going to do GVT, it would be a temporary specialization routine to kickstart my system, I wouldn't stay on it for any length of time.

yes...I know Vince Gironda had his moments in the sun with GVT and modified versions there-of...

but with all the ways to "skin a cat" out there, if it isn't working for you then don't do it.

Lil, Dave,

This is an awesome plan! I think I will try this program At the end of this OVT program , and we will see how it does. I really am into the compound movement exercises, so I think it will suit me really well.

I really don't like the isolation movements, my whole body is a unit, so i like using the whole thing!! Thanks man.




Heavy Metal,

Yeah, dude, if the program doesn't work for me, I don't do it. But to be perfectly honest, I had WAY smaller arms at the beginning of this program, that's why I am kind of amazed at your guys' responses, because you're saying it's not a good program. I will take your words of wisdom as word of truth aroudn here, which makes me kind of confused as to why i have been managing to get the gains i have.

In lifting just about anything "works' for awhile. Especially for new lifters.

Don't know if you're a "new" lifter...

No doubt you'd make some kind of gains on GVT.

But if GVT was the best game out there, everybody would be doing it..

and they're not.

Volume training has it's place.

But too many people do a heck of a lot of volume and no intensity, thinking that "x" amounts of sets are the way to go.

Anyway I wouldn't focus the workout around biceps. If you are able and healthy start Squatting or Deadlifting and Benching.

keep it "compound oriented".

I would do some bicep work (like I explained earlier).

But don't forget that triceps are about two thirds of your upper arm mass.

I would be more inclined to go 10x10 on the legs than I would biceps.

Alright, sounds good. I've been lifting for about 15 months. I originally was very heavy, with mostly fat. Think John Stone esque. 185 lbs, over 20% bodyfat, maybe closer to 30%.
All my life I've had a very small frame, then in my early twenties i just started packing on a beer gut, etc.
Starting in 2007, I've been doing the Olympic / compound lifts. Deadlifts, Clean and jerks, Squats, Squat into Push Press, man makers, box jumps holding kettleballs, etc.
I've really started to get better gains. I really dont' want to get HUGE, i'd rather just get maybe 10 lbs more of muscle on me up top, with nice low percentage of bodyfat. Think of the old school greek statues, that's what I'm going after. Myron's The discus thrower, stuff like that.

SO yeah, I do do compound lifts now. in fact, tomorrow is a big day for them :)

at the end of this OVT program, I'll definitely be switching it up majorly. Keeping the body guessing is the best way to continue gains, i've found.

oh and that flex wasn't that serious. i always have a pissed off look to my face. let me do a SERIOUS SERIOUS flex for you hahaha, then i'll have a red sock, lol.
Nope that doesn't look like a pissed off look to me... I dont usually crap while looking in the mirror, but that definatly looks like a "crap" face to me :neener::moon:

I really dont' want to get HUGE

Don't worry, (unfortunately) this won't happen overnight.

dude, i eat alot of fiber, and when i sit down on the can, that's the exact opposite of my face.

usually its little kid feeling of YES THAT WAS AWESOME! ends up happening when i feel 10 lbs lighter after taking a slam.

i can't beleive i'm typing this.

also bonus points for artistic curvature, as well as if you manage to get partial log sticking out of the water.

it's definitely not a serious or angry thing when i'm on the toilet. lol