Been re-visiting and studying Delt work quite a bit lately.

It's run the gamut from prescriptions of "all you need is the military press,bro'" to " Lat raises,kid...think Lat raises".

Other experts have claimed there is no such thing as the Best Delt Workout.

I don't agree with that. I think there is.

However, exactly what I'm not sure.

Nor am I totally sold on some prescribed rep ranges.

On anatomy charts it shows the superficial head of the Delts as being largely slow twitch fiber.

Which would make me believe they are in the same category as forearms and calves.

I have always regarded the Miltary Press as suspect because the triceps and other muscles take over the job of getting the weight up.

Question...at what point in the Mil Press is the Delt doing it's hardest work?. At start? When bar is halfway up? At top?

The Mil Press basically works the Anterior deltoid with some assistance from the Medial Head. However it is not an optimal ex for the Medial Head. And it's the Medial Head that gives you the "boulder" look.

Lat raises can hit the Medial Head lesser or greater, depending on how you do them.

Time and time again tho' the MIl Press is touted as the classic Delt Lift.

I just don't think that doing a set of Mil Presses followed by Forward Raises folllowed by Bent-over Rear Delt Raises optimally does the job.

At least it doesn't in my case.

One site said to train Delts on their own day. This would involve several ex's for the Delts, more at volume than highly intense weight.

I'm not sold that you have to "go heavy or go home" on Delts. I beleive they will respond more to higher volume at lesser weights (for growth).

I've tried a lot of stuff for Delts. In my case they respond better to more frequent work with a wide variety of ex's

I almost bought into the "it's easy to overtrain your Delts" cult.

Well...possibly the Anterior Delts..I'll give 'em that.

I think it's more like "it's easy to undertrain your Delts".

I don't see too many people with "boulder shoulders"

Nor do I ever hear a person say " Ya know I worked my Delts so much yesterday I can't raise my arms today"...but they'll gladly say that about the Squat,Biceps,chest or a host of other ex's.

I find that "greasing the groove" on Delts tend to help. One way I do this is to grab two lighter weight dumbells and periodically throughout the day hold them straight up above until I just start to feel a liitle bit of action (could be a minute or two).

As in any other workout such things as supersets and combos of specific ex's will produce greater results than doing standard exs.

If you have "boulder shoulders" or even ones that look like large round rocks please fill me in on your specialized routine.

Mighty grateful...thanks in advance:wave:

Wescott, Johnnie Jackson... the pros all say it comes done to one thing: keeping the muscles under tension. Never lock out; keep the rep moving and focused. Oh... and doing bradford presses. I know they work but I prefer to not do behind the head/neck motions.

Heavy, You want to specialize then:

Front raise followed immediately
by
Lateral raise followed immediately
by
Reat delt raise followed immediately
by
Miltary press

If you know your reps and weights then shoot for 12 slow reps of each or MM failure. Don't lockout but don't whip it around to see how fast you can do it like Jackson, slow and controlled. then rest 90 sec. put it front part of workout. Do for 2 weeks if you are full body or 6 times.

I know you said it might not work, try this to see if it is different.

I'm not saying that pressing movements are no good.

What comes to mind is Mike Mahler...who was talking about his experience with Matt Furey bodyweight workouts.

In this article he says that they were doing handstand pushups, which would be the classic press movement for Delts. If you look at a picture of Matt Furey, he has quite impressive Delts. From doing handstand pushups no doubt.

Now...that's a bodyweight press. Pretty impressive.

But....they never increase the weight. Just the amount of reps and the time it takes to do them.

yet...!!!!....they do them DAILY (fer the love-of-fershuggenlemp).

Only problem is.. I fry my triceps once a week on benching, so if I do heavy Mil presses in the same week the ol' triceps start to complain.

However..I will not whine...I will do as I'm told and suffer in silence..ever thankful to be a part of this gig...

He also does Hindu Pushups (which because of the style will work Delts more). Again they never add weight but instead more reps and speed.

Now I don't know if Matt is lifting weights when no-one's around (as some have claimed) but Mahler says it's all legit.

So on the face of it, it would seem that heavy reps and lots of em at the same weight would be productive.

I weigh 190 so if I did handstand pushups I'd be pressing 190.

I never come close to that on a Standing,Seated, or Machine Mil Press.

I did come close to it when I first got my Smith....but that was a partial and the bar only moved about 2 inches.

However I've done handstand pushups before (but not lately).

Heavy, You want to specialize then:

Front raise followed immediately
by
Lateral raise followed immediately
by
Reat delt raise followed immediately
by
Miltary press



Thats exactly what my trainer got me to do yesterday. Cool.

edited: I mean Friday. Yesterday I did legs ;)

Allrighty....I'm off and downstairs to the weightroom...:love:

Allrighty....I'm off and downstairs to the weightroom...:love:

good luck :tu:

Personally, when it comes to shoulder development, I'm about putting as much weight as possible over your head as often as possible. Presses are great, but push presses, jerks, and supports and negatives with those weights that are well in excess of the amount you can press is really where it's at. After that, if you want to look pretty, add some lateral raises and, to help keep the shoulders healthy, balance out those posterior delts with face pulls, scarecrows, high rows, etc.

I weigh 190 so if I did handstand pushups I'd be pressing 190.

I never come close to that on a Standing,Seated, or Machine Mil Press.

I did come close to it when I first got my Smith....but that was a partial and the bar only moved about 2 inches.

However I've done handstand pushups before (but not lately).
Yeah. You haven't come close to pressing your weight because a handstand push-up is a partial movement unless you get some parallettes or blocks to elevate yourself. When I do military, I'm touching my collar bones each rep, but, in a handstand push-up, I'm only lowering myself to where the top of the head brushes the ground, which is hardly a quarter movement and much, much easier as a result. If you're not using blocks or parallettes on your handstand push-ups, IME, the benefit you are really deriving is locking out your bodyweight; as a result, you see some shoulder hypertrophy, but military press with a full ROM will always yield better shoulder development.

If you want to add handstand work to aid in development, I'd recommend making a normal standing military press your bread and butter lift and then I'd add timed holds against the wall. Just kick up and press out of those shoulders for as long as you can. Hold a handstand against the wall for a couple minutes and, when you finish, you won't be able to lift your arms afterwards.

You haven't come close to pressing your weight because a handstand push-up is a partial movement unless you get some parallettes or blocks to elevate yourself.
I noticed that. :p I tried handstand pushups last week, and didn't really understand the point of them because of the limited range of motion. They were kinda fun for a change though. ;)

Front raise followed immediately
by
Lateral raise followed immediately
by
Reat delt raise followed immediately
by
Miltary pressI always superset my front raises with lateral raises, but I think I'll try this combo next time.

I haven't been doing a lot of overhead movements because I seem to have breathing problems with them. I suppose I should try them seated rather than standing and see if that helps.

Thanks. Going to incorporate everybody's advice:tu:

After I submitted the thread I went site-surfing and came up with this by Hugo Rivera...

Thought he had some good info in the article as well:-

http://bodybuilding.about.com/od/weighttrainingprinciples/a/train_shoulders.htm

:bb: :bb: :bb: :bb: :bb:

My shoulders grew LOADS this summer with "shoulder complex" that our gym coach made up consisting of front raisesx10, alternating, followed by another lift that I don't know the name of(you start with your arms in front of you elbows bent and do a rainbow type motion so the dumbells go from chest level to above your head and back) and then you do bent over reverse flyes. I don't know how to measure shoulders but they grew a lot. I also was doing a lot of handstand pushups for capoeira.

Heck, In my simplistic way of thinking and experience the more weight I press overhead usually means bigger delts.:tu:

Front raise followed immediately
by
Lateral raise followed immediately
by
Reat delt raise followed immediately
by
Miltary press


I started this same routine on shoulder days about 2 months ago. The only other thing included is the shoulder rotation exercises using the cables instead of bands. For the first time in my life, I actually have a noticable shoulder definition! Which I find pretty amazing considering I'm still a solid 20-30lbs overweight! About the only difference I do then what you find on most sites, is I take the front and lateral raises to full extension (Dumbells up over head) based on a therapist's advice after a shoulder injury.

I started this same routine on shoulder days about 2 months ago. The only other thing included is the shoulder rotation exercises using the cables instead of bands. For the first time in my life, I actually have a noticable shoulder definition! Which I find pretty amazing considering I'm still a solid 20-30lbs overweight! About the only difference I do then what you find on most sites, is I take the front and lateral raises to full extension (Dumbells up over head) based on a therapist's advice after a shoulder injury.

Tell me more about it!

...followed by another lift that I don't know the name of(you start with your arms in front of you elbows bent and do a rainbow type motion so the dumbells go from chest level to above your head and back)...

Sounds like an Arnold Press - those are great. I need to start adding some of this stuff back into my Delt & Tricep day. :nod:

Tell me more about it!

I ended up getting a bad case of bursitis/tendenitis in my shoulder last year during the football season. While the main cause was a bad hit on the shoulder joint itself, the therapist I was seeing noticed quite a bit of imbalance in the muscle development across the shoulders. the four main exercises he had me do were of course the shoulder rotation exercises others have posted here, plus front and side lateral raises. But instead of stopping the raises (Both front and side) where the arms are parallel to the floor, he had me continue the lift until the arms are fully extended overhead to target the full rotation of the joint.

Honestly, I don't know if these really make any difference in the shoulder definition or not. The main goal of the therapy was to even out the muscle strength and pull on the joint to prevent the injury of flaring up again since I'm still actively playing.

The big difference in my shoulder definition didn't pop out until I switched over to a four day split routine where shoulder day literally had the above routine listed. I simply added in my shoulder rotation exercises and used the full raises. I've been doing the routine for about 2 months now and in the last couple of weeks really noticed the shoulders are actually popping out with a very nice defined look!

I used to compete in powerlifting competitions when I was younger and while back then, my overall strength was much higher.. I never had that rounded defined look to the shoulders that I've got now.

Sounds like an Arnold Press - those are great. I need to start adding some of this stuff back into my Delt & Tricep day. :nod:
Very similar but not exactly.

I ended up getting a bad case of bursitis/tendenitis in my shoulder last year during the football season. While the main cause was a bad hit on the shoulder joint itself, the therapist I was seeing noticed quite a bit of imbalance in the muscle development across the shoulders. the four main exercises he had me do were of course the shoulder rotation exercises others have posted here, plus front and side lateral raises. But instead of stopping the raises (Both front and side) where the arms are parallel to the floor, he had me continue the lift until the arms are fully extended overhead to target the full rotation of the joint.

Honestly, I don't know if these really make any difference in the shoulder definition or not. The main goal of the therapy was to even out the muscle strength and pull on the joint to prevent the injury of flaring up again since I'm still actively playing.

The big difference in my shoulder definition didn't pop out until I switched over to a four day split routine where shoulder day literally had the above routine listed. I simply added in my shoulder rotation exercises and used the full raises. I've been doing the routine for about 2 months now and in the last couple of weeks really noticed the shoulders are actually popping out with a very nice defined look!

I used to compete in powerlifting competitions when I was younger and while back then, my overall strength was much higher.. I never had that rounded defined look to the shoulders that I've got now.

Thanks so much!! I'm gonna try this for sure. I also do shoulders seperately (also 4 day split)