I went a year ago to take a fitness test only to find my triglycerides were through the roof, my LDL levels were super high, and my HDL levels were really low.

I decided to make a change and really go out to the gym and change my diet. I have made a lot of sacrifices and been the ridicule of many people for being so obsessive.

I went back to get the test done last week and I got my results today. I wish I could say I had good news but I don't. While my triglyceride levels were normal, my LDL levels are 20 points higher than normal and my HDL levels are lower than dirt. It seems like all the sacrifice, all the working out, giving up some of the foods I used to love, being made fun of...didn't make a difference. The doctor said the only thing I had going for me was my age. If I was older than this would be a serious problem.

I also have high blood pressure to boot. It is all very disheartening. I worked so hard, maybe not as hard as others, but hard nonetheless. It really stinks and I feel pissed and upset and all these other emotions wrapped up in one.

But I won't stop working out and I won't stop taking care of what I eat. I now have a different goal. It maybe superficial but right now I don't really care. If working out doesn't really making a difference in my health than I at least I should look good while being unhealthy. I know that I will have to take medication but I really wanted to avoid that. Oh well. There are people who are doing a lot worse than me. So I am thankful for what I got, even if I'm not totally happy with EVERYTHING.

It sounds like it is hereditary and not your fault. Can you post up a couple sample days of your diet and the types of workouts you do?

Just curious -- Do you have unhealthy levels of bodyfat? If so, shedding excess fat can also help....

There are things you can try before you get on meds, as they really work, but these are no substitute for your doctor’s advice.

Cholesterol: Red Rice yeast, dark leafy green veggies every day (or buy “Chlos-Off” if you can’t eat a lot of veggies), fresh garlic, plenty of fiber from veggies, fruits and whole oats, one apple per day. Also, healthy fats will raise your HDL: olive oil, omega 3's from ground flax seeds, naturally processed peanut and walnut oil. It does not sound like it, but if you have any trans fats left in your diet, ditch them immediately: donuts, fast foods, anything fried in certain vegetable oils.

HBP: Hawthorn berry, fish oil (natural sources are best, if not take the caps) ground organic flax seeds, reduce your sodium intake, calcium/magnesium supplement, add potassium if not in your multi, cardio.

If nothing else, take the first thing listed for cholesterol and HBP, plus the apple, keep you total daily cholesterol intake to below 200mg daily and do cardio, if you have not started already. The herbs can be bought at places like Wall Mart or online. Do not combine the Red Rice yeast with anti-cholesterol drugs, as it often is the main ingredient in those drugs. (Red Rice yeast cost about $7.00 per bottle IRRC, the script will cost many times that). Gotta love those drug companies.

If you can post your diet for a week or so, so that others may offer suggestions. Good luck.

It sounds like it is hereditary and not your fault. Can you post up a couple sample days of your diet and the types of workouts you do?

Sure NO prob I have it posted in a couple areas but here is my more recent one.

1 egg, 1 egg white, 1/2 a grape fruit, and 1/2 cup of oatmeal

1 slice of bread, protein shake, and 1/2 grap fruit

1 cup of brown rice, 1/2 cup of veggies, 3 oz of lean ground beef, and 10 multigrain crackers

1 cup of brown rice, 1/2 cup of veggies, and 6 oz of chicken


1 can of tuna, 10 multigrain crackers, and 1 tablespoon of EFA's

1 egg, 1 egg white, 1/2 a grape fruit, and 1/2 cup of oatmeal

Just curious -- Do you have unhealthy levels of bodyfat? If so, shedding excess fat can also help....


Here is what I look like

http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?p=446046#post446046

Here is what I look like

http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?p=446046#post446046

Sometimes if you eat clean and exercise, you can still have high BP and cholesterol if you are carrying around excess fat -- but from the looks of your pics, that doesn't seem to be the case.

If you've been eating clean for the last year, and your cholesterol is still high, then I agree with badgolfer -- It is likely genetic and won't be reduced without some kind of medical intervention. I'm in the same boat as you. I had high cholesterol (323 total), dropped virtually all saturated fat from my diet, ate very clean and exercised, yet still was only able to bring it down to 240. My brother and sister both have high cholesterol too....

1 egg, 1 egg white, 1/2 a grape fruit, and 1/2 cup of oatmeal

...

1 egg, 1 egg white, 1/2 a grape fruit, and 1/2 cup of oatmeal


Hi,

I count two whole eggs. Do you eat them every day ? 4% of yolk is pure cholesterol, about 500 mg for 2 yolks. That is too much. Try to cut this.

You could also take vitamin B3 (niacin) or/and add a bit of red wine to boost HDL (it worked for me) if you do not mind the extra calories (1 to 2 glasses per day).

Hope it helps.

I count two whole eggs. Do you eat them every day ? 4% of yolk is pure cholesterol, about 500 mg for 2 yolks. That is too much. Try to cut this.Also take a look at the ground beef. You don't say the % but even if it's 97% you can replace it with more chicken or fish, or try ground turkey instead. Consider an alternative fat source like olive oil, etc. On a related note, you might want to take a look at the crackers as well. If you've been putting in 90% in the diet area, maybe it's time to kick it to 100%. It sounds like you have the determination to do this. Did your doctor give any instruction on diet at your checkup?


I have made a lot of sacrifices and been the ridicule of many people for being so obsessive...But I won't stop working out and I won't stop taking care of what I eat.This is exactly the attitude to take. When you receive the "obsessive" criticism from someone whose opinion you care about (and I think we've all been there), take a step back and look at yourself. Are you "obsessed" to the point that it's actually being destructive to your life? Or are you simply doing what you need to do, 100%? Is your determination and perseverance being misinterpreted by others? If so (and of course, be honest :D), then move on and let the criticism slide right off. It's tough to put the work in and not get the results you feel you should have earned, but the key is to keep going. From what you posted, it sounds like you have the right mindset.

FIDO.
http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?t=16800

Best of luck to you!

To lower my cholesterol, I take "Niacin". It is a vitamin "B3". The benefit of Niacin over Statins, is that it increases your HDL (good cholesterol), which I have read is more important then having a total low cholesterol. To get the benefit of Niacin, you have to take in fairly high doses, for instance I take 1 gram - 3 times a day. The side effect that people get is that you feel flushed, your skin turns red, and can get itchy. But that often goes away (it did in my case), and it gets reduced if you take the Niacin after you eat. Niacin has the same effect that Statins have on your liver, just like Statins, you need to take a blood test to see if there are any irregularities in your liver. If they find any though, they go away when you stop taking the Niacin or Statins. But if you continued taking them after your liver showed irregularities, you could do permanent damage to your liver. If you are interested, enter "Niacin Cholesterol" in a search engine like Yahoo to find out more about it. I take it under the guidance of a doctor, and I suggest if you start taking it, you do the same. Good luck.

Thanks for the advice guys. I'm actually starting SUP2 so my diet has changed. I cannot comment on the details but it is healthier than before. I have some niacin so I'll start taking it as well.

Do you eat oatmeal every day?

I have cholesterol and heart disease issues in my family. I share a doctor with my father, mother, and one brother. When my father dropped dead suddenly of a heart attack 4 1/2 years ago (I can't believe it's been that long) he decided to take an aggressive approach to treating my family. My total cholesterol was about 180. Not bad, but my HDL/LDL ration was really bad. He wanted to put me on statins, the whole bit. I resisted and said let me change my diet. I ate better, but my cholesterol didn't change.

Starting in September 2005, I got a new job. Due to a number of factors, I started having oatmeal every morning at 10 am at my desk. I take one package of Quaker Oats flavored instant (variety of flavors) and then add an equal amount of regular unflavored oats. Add hot water from the coffee machine and stir.

I used to routinely buy these home cholesterol tests which only give you a total count reading. It used to consistently confirm my doctors tests that I was about 180. About a month ago I realized that I hadn't checked in awhile, so I bought another test. It said 140. Now the only real variable has been the daily 10 am oatmeal. It's such a drastic drop that I'm not convinced that I didn't get a dud of a test. So, I bought another one last week, but haven't had a chance to take it yet. (Best to do it fasted and I never remember until after I eat)

So, if this new test confirms a drop in cholesterol from 180 to 140, then I am another example of the power of oatmeal in controlling cholesterol.

First of all, congratulations on your progress so far. Please, please don't think that what you have done was a waste in any way. To begin with, things like high LDL, low HDL, high BP, etc, are each nothing more than risk factors. What does that mean? It means that each of those individual things suggests a statistical risk. But there is no way to know the significance of each factor.

What you do know for sure is that a healthy lifestyle change of the kind you have made tends to have a very positive outcome on real health. Some of the ways it does this are not fully understood or revealed in blood tests, but you can be sure they are real.

You also know that your program has normalised your triglycerides. Maybe your "unfavourable" HDL/LDL ratio is hereditary, or perhaps being influenced by some factor that is still to be tackled, or just hasn't kicked in yet. It might or might not even be significant in real health terms. That's all just speculation. The available facts are that you have significantly improved your blood lipids in some way, as can be seen from the change in triglycerides. For all you know, you may also have drastically improved the distribution of LDL sub-species or particle size (not at all unlikely, as it so happens ... look into this subject ;) ).

I would therefore try some of the specific suggestions the others have made in this thread, and meanwhile try to research beyond the simplistic set of figures that the doctors give us - because those figures sometimes do not reveal all the crucial things.

F Maybe your "unfavourable" HDL/LDL ratio is hereditary, or perhaps being influenced by some factor that is still to be tackled, or just hasn't kicked in yet. It might or might not even be significant in real health terms. That's all just speculation. The available facts are that you have significantly improved your blood lipids in some way, as can be seen from the change in triglycerides. For all you know, you may also have drastically improved the distribution of LDL sub-species or particle size (not at all unlikely, as it so happens ... look into this subject ;) ).


Agree 100%. Exercise and diet are the #1 'risk' factors for CHD, not cholesterol numbers. Triglyceride's come in fairly high on the list of risk factors, and are much, much more important than LDL and/or HDL or total cholesterol. Even my PCP (not a great doc) basically ignores the cholesterol part, unless it is way, way high (except to try to get people who don't exercise to do something based on popular misconception).

Triglyceride's come in fairly high on the list of risk factors, and are much, much more important than LDL and/or HDL or total cholesterol.


Not so according to the literature. There actually has been no evidence that correcting high triglycerides reduces one's risk of heart disease, however there is an abundance of data demonstrating clear benefit in correcting the LDL and the HDL cholesterols.

I noticed you have low levels of HDL.

OK you can help with diet to get normal levels of HDL.

But if you want high levels of HDL, which sounds like you really would given your other results, then the only way to get them is exercise. Did you know that? You can't eat anything that raises your HDL level above normal. I didn't know that until recently. You can eat any diet known to man and the best that you can get is to avoid abnormally low levels of HDL.

Now the one main thing to remember about exercise which is aimed at increasing your HDL is that it's got to be metabolically significant. Which means if you have been thinking about the sort of beach muscle "OH GOD WHAT IF I GET CATABOLIC" approaches that are popular with some people, then forget it. Just trash that stuff. Until you start training your liver hard, your body isn't going to see the point of elevating your HDL.

High levels of HDL are a marker for people who do endurance exercise. And in your case I wouldn't bet on hours and hours of LISS cardio either, (which I would not think is a good use of your time).

If you are already up to a good cardio base, then I suggest you get a heart monitor, and see how much energy you really are putting into your lifting. Make sure you get the heart rate quite elevated on every big compound exercise, and do not allow complete recovery between sets. Do not settle for a short workout - go until you have taken down at least 500 Calories, aim for more like 800. This will send a wake-up call to your liver that it will not ignore. Do that at least twice a week, three times is even better.

I don't know how much it will help the rest of your serum profile, but it should actually help a good deal. The one thing that is pretty sure is that you can crank up the HDL cholesterol, and about the only known way to really crank it up is a significant volume of intense exercise.

My journal is mostly filled with workouts that aim at this sort of result, and I now have an excellent serum profile even though a few years ago I was borderline "high risk". And I have not changed my diet whatsoever from then, it still includes a lot of red meat, milk, etc. I'm not saying you can get away with my diet, but I am betting that the one thing from my experience which is known to translate well is that you can get your HDL up with the sort of workouts I do.

[SIZE=2]Do you eat oatmeal every day

About 3 cups a day. But my diet has changed. I'm starting the SUP2 program
First of all, congratulations on your progress so far. Please, please don't think that what you have done was a waste in any way. To begin with, things like high LDL, low HDL, high BP, etc, are each nothing more than risk factors. What does that mean? It means that each of those individual things suggests a statistical risk. But there is no way to know the significance of each factor.

What you do know for sure is that a healthy lifestyle change of the kind you have made tends to have a very positive outcome on real health. Some of the ways it does this are not fully understood or revealed in blood tests, but you can be sure they are real.

You also know that your program has normalised your triglycerides. Maybe your "unfavourable" HDL/LDL ratio is hereditary, or perhaps being influenced by some factor that is still to be tackled, or just hasn't kicked in yet. It might or might not even be significant in real health terms. That's all just speculation. The available facts are that you have significantly improved your blood lipids in some way, as can be seen from the change in triglycerides. For all you know, you may also have drastically improved the distribution of LDL sub-species or particle size (not at all unlikely, as it so happens ... look into this subject ;) ).

I would therefore try some of the specific suggestions the others have made in this thread, and meanwhile try to research beyond the simplistic set of figures that the doctors give us - because those figures sometimes do not reveal all the crucial things.

Lots of info here thanks. I kind of lost you on parts but I'm pretty sure I'll understand better once I research it.

Agree 100%. Exercise and diet are the #1 'risk' factors for CHD, not cholesterol numbers. QUOTE]

[QUOTE=zenpharaohs;448881]I noticed you have low levels of HDL.

OK you can help with diet to get normal levels of HDL.

But if you want high levels of HDL, which sounds like you really would given your other results, then the only way to get them is exercise. Did you know that? You can't eat anything that raises your HDL level above normal. I didn't know that until recently. You can eat any diet known to man and the best that you can get is to avoid abnormally low levels of HDL.

I thought that was weird. It's kind of funny how food doesn't directly affect this

Now the one main thing to remember about exercise which is aimed at increasing your HDL is that it's got to be metabolically significant. Which means if you have been thinking about the sort of beach muscle "OH GOD WHAT IF I GET CATABOLIC" approaches that are popular with some people, then forget it. Just trash that stuff. Until you start training your liver hard, your body isn't going to see the point of elevating your HDL.

High levels of HDL are a marker for people who do endurance exercise. And in your case I wouldn't bet on hours and hours of LISS cardio either, (which I would not think is a good use of your time).

If you are already up to a good cardio base, then I suggest you get a heart monitor, and see how much energy you really are putting into your lifting. Make sure you get the heart rate quite elevated on every big compound exercise, and do not allow complete recovery between sets. Do not settle for a short workout - go until you have taken down at least 500 Calories, aim for more like 800. This will send a wake-up call to your liver that it will not ignore. Do that at least twice a week, three times is even better.

I don't know how much it will help the rest of your serum profile, but it should actually help a good deal. The one thing that is pretty sure is that you can crank up the HDL cholesterol, and about the only known way to really crank it up is a significant volume of intense exercise.

My journal is mostly filled with workouts that aim at this sort of result, and I now have an excellent serum profile even though a few years ago I was borderline "high risk". And I have not changed my diet whatsoever from then, it still includes a lot of red meat, milk, etc. I'm not saying you can get away with my diet, but I am betting that the one thing from my experience which is known to translate well is that you can get your HDL up with the sort of workouts I do.

I figured that cardio directly affected HDL levels. Recently I had been lifting heavy but the only day I felt my heart racing was on leg day. I'm not a big cardio fan so I didn't really do any, only when my goal was to cut did I do any cardio. I will start the SUP2 and I'm pretty sure the workouts will be more demanding on my body.

Thanks for all the great info and motivation guys.:tucool:

I was on Swolecat's SUP2 program for some months. During that time, the net change in my lipids was favourable.

I also found that if you follow the SUP2 training protocol correctly, it definitely provides a challenge to the body. However, if you think you need a refinement, I would suggest you discuss it with SC as he will make sure the overall program is still working for you.

Well, I'm going to start it tomorrow. I was just waiting to start the program at the start of the week, rather than in the middle. I'm pretty sure I'll be happy with it.

Cholesterol and High blood pressure can be helped by Niacin (B3). I have seen people lower total Cholesterol by 80 points. Most meds for cholesterol have niacin added, probably the biggest helper but you can't patent vitamin B3 and sell it. Get the flushing kind, non-flushing is useless and shouldn't be on market. Niacin dilates blood vessels help remove plcate, lowers blood pressure, you get a better pump and sex is better.

Yes, I have seen it stop on-coming blindness also. It is the only vitamin you know is doing something when you take a 500mg tablet:tucool:

Taking aspirin or ibuprofen 30 minutes before taking the niacin greatly reduces the flushing side effect of niacin.

Taking aspirin or ibuprofen 30 minutes before taking the niacin greatly reduces the flushing side effect of niacin.

Which I never want to do. The flushing is good it reflects the dilation of the blood vessels which bring about all of the magical results you can obtain with it. look forward to it like you do a sweat in a workout. you know it is working.

Niacin dilates blood vessels help remove plcate, lowers blood pressure, you get a better pump and sex is better.


Sweet!:D
Taking aspirin or ibuprofen 30 minutes before taking the niacin greatly reduces the flushing side effect of niacin.

I got some St Joseph asprin thing and I have some Niacin.

Thanks again guys.

Which I never want to do. The flushing is good it reflects the dilation of the blood vessels which bring about all of the magical results you can obtain with it. look forward to it like you do a sweat in a workout. you know it is working.

I'll keep this in mind. Thanks. The doctor did ask me to take a baby asprin so I'll take it at a different time.

Which I never want to do. The flushing is good it reflects the dilation of the blood vessels which bring about all of the magical results you can obtain with it. look forward to it like you do a sweat in a workout. you know it is working.

So do you reccomend to take it before you workout. Because I took some right now and it feels like I'm burning up.:mad: :mad: :mad: Not too too bad though.

So do you reccomend to take it before you workout. Because I took some right now and it feels like I'm burning up.:mad: :mad: :mad: Not too too bad though.

Doesn't matter. For best results, you would actually want to maintain the niacin in your system for the majority of the day, such as dosing it 3x/day.

The flushing side effect is actually a sign of the rapidly changing concentration of niacin in your system, but is by no means a necessary phenomenon for it to work. Most people will not want to experience that every time they need to take another dose, as you will be scheduling your life around when you are okay feeling like that and looking like a red light bulb. :mad:

Doesn't matter. The flushing side effect is actually a sign of the rapidly changing concentration of niacin in your system, but is by no means a necessary phenomenon for it to work.

The dilation causes larger flow of blood thru your system. That lowers the blood pressure, the hose is bigger. The flow of blood is to every where, the feeling and look is similar to a sunburn where the flow of blood is increased for healing. It is worse when you are deficient in niacin.

There are studies that have shown when straight Niacin was used with mental patents that when non-flush was used they had increased depression.

I don't mind the effect, I seek it. It is all a matter of choice and who you believe.

As for before workouts, I would say no, I have done it but try in the morning and at night. I have taken mega doses of niacin for over 35 years. BP and Cholesterol are good.

I figured that cardio directly affected HDL levels. Recently I had been lifting heavy but the only day I felt my heart racing was on leg day. I'm not a big cardio fan so I didn't really do any, only when my goal was to cut did I do any cardio. I will start the SUP2 and I'm pretty sure the workouts will be more demanding on my body.

Thanks for all the great info and motivation guys.:tucool:

Yeah if you are already adapted to the workout then your liver takes a vacation. It doesn't just go on an HDL rampage in response to nothing. Either you have to up the volume, or the intensity. Here is where "good use of your time" comes in. If you double the volume, then you double the exercise response. But if you double the intensity, you much more than double the exercise response. This is because you deplete all sorts of chemicals beyond the body's ability to replenish them, and your liver bears the brunt of this metabolic assault. If you exercise at low intensity (typically the lactate threshold is the right dividing line for this) then the liver can keep up, and doesn't have to adapt. But when the intensity gets past what the liver can deal with, all sorts of chemical responses get triggered. This usually takes a lot less time than the corresponding increase in volume would. So intensity, and interval-like loads, are probably the most efficient. Tabata is sort of the ultimate in this direction.

Of course, your liver doesn't adapt while you are beating on it - so good rest and sleep are important.

The liver is probably one of the most adaptable and renewable organs in the body. It's where a lot of this metabolic action goes down. It's not that hard to make sure your liver has to bring its A game to your workouts, so why not?