Right now I weigh about 238. I'm 6'1 or 6'2.

I'm fairly overweight (more than John was in his original pictures), but I've also been lifting on and off since I was 17 (23 now) and I'm pretty solid and muscular too. 17.5 inch biceps (no pump), 14.5 inch forearms, I squat and bench pretty well, but nobody is too interested in that - and obviously there are people on here with 20 inch guns and shit, so I'm a small fish in a big pond in that regard. :D

My question is this:

I'd like to drop down to a decent body fat percentage. I know that there'll be no seeing my abs any time soon, it'd take years of work at my weight.

But what do I do about weight training while losing weight?

I know, 500 calorie deficit and cardio, WITH weight training. I've had good experiences with fasted morning LISS in the past, but I lost a lot of strength as well. Or at least it seemed like it.

But how hard do I go at it? Am I going to catabolize muscle lifting as hard as I usually do on a caloric defecit? Will working hard with the weights actually be counter productive? Should I tone it down and only ramp up the cardio?

Right now I do a full body routine 3-4 times a week with 20-30 minutes of cardio on a stationary bike on my off days. I know it's probably better to do a split, but my body seems to like the full rest day or two between lifting, and I find it easier to stick to than lifting every day. Right now, anyway.

I work out at home, and my weight training days look like this:

5x5 squats

5x10 calf raises

5x10 leg extensions

5x5 bicep curls/hammer curls or concentration curls

5x7 overhead tricep extension (I found the bent extension hurt my shoulders)

5x5 dumbbell rows

3x5 chinups (which is actually fairly hard at my weight)

5x10 palms up wrist curl

5x20 palms down wrist curl


I also always throw in some heavy bag work and usually throw in some pushups, if my energy levels allow it. I do cardio on a stationary bike.

First question I'll be asked:

Where's the chest work????

Yeah, I know. But I only have a limited set up, and I've got it set up for squatting since my routine couldn't afford to be without it. I'm looking at a PowerTec leverage bench (no bar, since I have no spotter) and I'll probably order it as soon as I can get a little more info on it. I'm also not interested in the machine itself, just the bench press part, since I can do everything it has on my home system already.

Thanks for any replies.

Right now I weigh about 238. I'm 6'1 or 6'2.

I'm fairly overweight (more than John was in his original pictures), but I've also been lifting on and off since I was 17 (23 now) and I'm pretty solid and muscular too. 17.5 inch biceps (no pump), 14.5 inch forearms, I squat and bench pretty well, but nobody is too interested in that - and obviously there are people on here with 20 inch guns and shit, so I'm a small fish in a big pond in that regard. :D

You sound pretty solid under the fat:nod:

I'd like to drop down to a decent body fat percentage. I know that there'll be no seeing my abs any time soon, it'd take years of work at my weight.

If you're willing to make this a priority and be consistent, I don't think it will take years.

But what do I do about weight training while losing weight?

I know, 500 calorie deficit and cardio, WITH weight training. I've had good experiences with fasted morning LISS in the past, but I lost a lot of strength as well. Or at least it seemed like it.

But how hard do I go at it? Am I going to catabolize muscle lifting as hard as I usually do on a caloric defecit? Will working hard with the weights actually be counter productive? Should I tone it down and only ramp up the cardio?

I would recommend to continue with the same intensity in the weight room. What was your nutrition like when you were losing strength? I prioritize weight training over cardio, so I would not tone it down one bit to ramp up cardio.

Right now I do a full body routine 3-4 times a week with 20-30 minutes of cardio on a stationary bike on my off days. I know it's probably better to do a split, but my body seems to like the full rest day or two between lifting, and I find it easier to stick to than lifting every day. Right now, anyway.

Splits are not necessarily better than full body routines. To each his own. If you do well with a full body routine then stick to it.

First question I'll be asked:

Where's the chest work????

Actually, where's the posterior chain work? I would search for another routine that you could follow. You don't have to perform the exact same thing three days a week. Look around, there are a bunch of full body routines on the boards.

Yeah, I should probably mix it up with three different routines. But there are certain things that I couldn't stand not hitting 3x a week - specifically squats, biceps, forearms, and probably my chest once I pick up the powertec machine.

As far as losing strength doing the fasted LISS cardio... my caloric deficit was definitely too much. I had just found this website, and was looking at John's food logs from when he started. I was probably eating 1500-1600 calories a day.

Anyone have any advice on what I should be eating?

Anyone have any advice on what I should be eating?
Post your current diet and we'll help you. :)

Well, it's hard to post something that doesn't exist :P

I estimate macros and generally keep my protein intake over 180 grams and calories generally under 2500. But I'll also eat five pieces of pizza while watching a hockey game or something by times. I get mighty weak for cerain things.

I eat organic fruits and vegetables. I keep my junk food to a minimum. Even my meat is generally grain fed, and my protein shakes consist of soy/hemp/pea/rice protein.

It's not that I'm a BAD eater - it's just that I have no specific plan, and I binge sometimes.

I should also mention that I do try to space out my meals and eat around 500 calories a meal (and I usually go over) - but often times, I end up eating 1000 calories in a meal, etc.

Also 1FastGTX, I didn't mean to sound cunty in my first sentence of the last post. It was purely meant in the manner of self-deprecating humour :P

Well, it's hard to post something that doesn't exist :P

I estimate macros and generally keep my protein intake over 180 grams and calories generally under 2500. But I'll also eat five pieces of pizza while watching a hockey game or something by times. I get mighty weak for cerain things.

I eat organic fruits and vegetables. I keep my junk food to a minimum. Even my meat is generally grain fed, and my protein shakes consist of soy/hemp/pea/rice protein.

It's not that I'm a BAD eater - it's just that I have no specific plan, and I binge sometimes.
Without any info on your diet we cannot really give accurate opinions on why you may have lost strength. :) You probably didn't eat much most of the time, then binged every few days. That, as I know you know, is not an optimal plan.

IMHO, under 2500 calories for you is not only too low, but it's drastically too low. Especially for the beginning of a cut. I prefer people start higher and work down slowly as needed. It's not a race, take your time, enjoy life, and slowly build the foundation to a new lifestyle.

I'd probably start out around 3500/day, depending on the macro breakdown and your training split and routine of course. Then track progress over a few weeks and adjust accordingly.

How you adjust macros and portions and grams really depends on you. How strict do you want to be? Are you serious this time? Can you keep from eating 5 slices of pizza a few times a week? Certainly I have no problem with cheat meals (in fact, depending on the person and the rest of the diet I sometimes recommend cheat meals), but low-calories for 2 days and then binging on the 3rd day is not going to work very well.

For more of a "lifestyle diet" (one that is not super strict) I like a 50% protein intake, then having fat and carb ratios both falling somewhere between 20 and 30%. So, somewhere between 50/20/30 and 50/30/20 is something that works for me. But again this too depends. There are a lot of people on here with 40%+ carb ratios with fantastic physiques.

I would keep cardio to a minimum, with a few short (~30 minutes) LISS sessions each week for now. I'd prefer you totally overhauling your training routine into an upper/lower split, 4 days per week total, but there are plenty of different options here. A full-body routine is fine but you'll need to change yours up some I think, if you want to stick to full-body.

Yeah, I should probably mix it up with three different routines. But there are certain things that I couldn't stand not hitting 3x a week - specifically squats, biceps, forearms, and probably my chest once I pick up the powertec machine.


I think you'd have a lot better results cleaning up the weight workout and balancing it out.

Heck, you've got 175 reps a workout in curl type work. However, you have no real posterior chain focused work. The only work your glutes, hams, and low back get is via your squats. You should try to balance quad dominant exercises with posterior chain work.

Add some deads or variants thereof and lower your small muscle work significantly, and I suspect your goals will be a lot easier to meet.

Not to mention the fact that the big compound movements work the body a whole lot more per time spent in the gym, which will increase both strength gains and either fat loss or hypertrophy, depending on what you do with your diet. How much energy do you think it takes for you to contract a bicep muscle vs how much it takes for you to pick something heavy up off the floor, requiring the quads, hamstrings, glutes, back, traps, etc to all work?

I've had weighted lunges (walking) and deadlifts in my routines in the past. If I added those two things, would that be sufficient?

I'd love to be able to hit a gym to do a lot of leg work, but the closest one is about thirty minutes away.

And here's a question:

If I added those two things to my CURRENT routine, would I be overtraining?

And here's a question:

If I added those two things to my CURRENT routine, would I be overtraining?

If you are cutting, most likely it would be too much.

That was only one part of the imbalance. You should also try to balance things like bi and tri work, push and pull on similar planes, etc.

For instance, you've got rows and pullups. You should also do dips or presses of some types, IMO.

This is why you would probably be better off doing different workouts on different days of the week, so you can balance things a bit better.

Sometimes it isn't how many reps or exercises you do, it's how smart and intense you workout. More is often not better for progress, but worse.

Also, you don't need to go to a gym to get leg work in. If you can do squats, you can do deads. Even less equipment is involved. Also, lunges are good (but depending on how you do them might again be more quad dominant). In addition to regular deads, do Romanian Deadlifts, single legged deads with DBs, good mornings, etc.

I have a cage with a high and low pulley, two oly bars, and a DB set, and I can do about anything I want to do short of full on Olympic lifts where dropping the bar on my second floor lifting room would probably not be wise. A gym is good, but not necessary.

Alright, I'm going to switch my routine each day and add more compound movements, while eating 2000 calories and making sure I get about 200 grams of protein a day. On off days I'm going to do 30 minutes of cardio (or should I do 45, can I safely get away with it without losing muscle?).

I'll see where this gets me for three months. If anyone has any suggestions or BIG HUGE WARNINGS, tell me now :lol:

I'm going to assume that 2000-2200 (given that I'll probably mess up a bit, cheat a bit, etc) is at LEAST a 500 calorie deficit for my size, and I may burn 500 more with the weight training and cardio. Let's see if I can drop down to 215 in three months.

Anyone want to place bets? :tucool:

...while eating 2000 calories...If anyone has any suggestions or BIG HUGE WARNINGS, tell me now

IMHO, under 2500 calories for you is not only too low, but it's drastically too low.

For your height and weight, I agree that 2500 (let alone 2000) is far too low as a starting point.

Oh shit, I missed that post. Wouldn't you know it, it was the most useful one too.

Guess I'll have to rethink the plan.

Oh shit, I missed that post. Wouldn't you know it, it was the most useful one too.

Guess I'll have to rethink the plan.

Start a journal like Evilegg so we can follow your program there.:gl:

I doubt my situation is as interesting as EvilEgg's :P

Alright so...

It's been twelve days of counting calories on my new 3 day a week full body routine.

It was said that I should start at about 3500 calories, and 2500 would be really low. So, against all advice, I decided on 2200-2500 calories a day. I respect the advice given, but I wanted to make good and god damn sure I was losing weight, and if I felt my strength was decreasing, I'd increase calories.

So since then, I've had a daily caloric intake of 2200-2500 in general. There were a couple days around 1800, and a couple around 3500. It's a wash, right?

Well, apparently not.

I started 12 days ago at 238.8 pounds.

I just got on the scale.

I weigh 239.



Do I need more cardio? Should I drop calories even lower? Are the heightened calorie days totally sabotaging me? (I read on these boards that I should throw in a couple higher calorie days per week)

I think there's something that I'm missing.

Alright so...

It's been twelve days of counting calories on my new 3 day a week full body routine.

It was said that I should start at about 3500 calories, and 2500 would be really low. So, against all advice, I decided on 2200-2500 calories a day. I respect the advice given, but I wanted to make good and god damn sure I was losing weight, and if I felt my strength was decreasing, I'd increase calories.

So since then, I've had a daily caloric intake of 2200-2500 in general. There were a couple days around 1800, and a couple around 3500. It's a wash, right?

Well, apparently not.

I started 12 days ago at 238.8 pounds.

I just got on the scale.

I weigh 239.



Do I need more cardio? Should I drop calories even lower? Are the heightened calorie days totally sabotaging me? (I read on these boards that I should throw in a couple higher calorie days per week)

I think there's something that I'm missing.

It's not all about weight. Have you taken measurements? How do your clothes fit now vs. 2 weeks ago? You could've lost fat and gained some muscle mass.

Well, apparently not.

I started 12 days ago at 238.8 pounds.

I just got on the scale.

I weigh 239.



Do I need more cardio? Should I drop calories even lower? Are the heightened calorie days totally sabotaging me? (I read on these boards that I should throw in a couple higher calorie days per week)

I think there's something that I'm missing.

The ability to follow lots of great advice being No. 1. Not specifically listening to 1FastGTX being No. 2.

My guess, he isn't counting his calories. If he did 1/2 the work he said he was and actually counted calories, he would have lost. :gl:

It's not all about weight. Have you taken measurements? How do your clothes fit now vs. 2 weeks ago? You could've lost fat and gained some muscle mass.


Very good point... some of us here have been at the same weight for quite some time while BF% has changed :)

20 guns..here? who?:eek: