I just want to make sure I'm doing things right, before I get too far into a cut :)

M1: 2 Whole Eggs, 4 Egg Whites, 50g Mushrooms, 1 Grapefruit

M2: 140g Tuna, 1tbsp Olive Oil

M3: 140g Tuna, 100g Broccoli, 100g Green Beans

M4: 100g Oats w/ 100ml Semi Skim Milk + 300ml Water, 150g Cottage Cheese

PWO: 50g Whey (27g Protein per 30g) 60g Dextrose

PPWO: This is dinner, and it changes everyday, because it is a family meal. It is usually Meat + Veggies + Pasta / Rice, never a Cheat meal!

M7: 150g Cottage Cheese, 1 Apple, 50g Peanuts

I'm after some critical analysis, simply because I want to do things as perfectly as I can :D

Stats:
184.5lbs
5' 11"
16 y.o

Workout:
Not too worried about this, as I have had it checked before, but thought I'd post it up for the sake of it.

Monday
Squats - 5x5
RDLs - 3x10
Split Squats - 3x10

Thursday
Bench - 5x5
Smith Shoulder Press - 3x10
Dips - 3xFailure

Friday
Deadlift - 5x5
Cable Rows - 3x10
Assisted Pullups - 3xFailure

Do you have the calorie total and macro breakdowns?

Other than 2 cans of tuna a day, which depending on what you believe can be harmful to your health, it looks pretty good. You are 16 though, and I don't believe in eating like this at 16 years old, but that's a whole different topic I suppose.

Do you have the calorie total and macro breakdowns?

Other than 2 cans of tuna a day, which depending on what you believe can be harmful to your health, it looks pretty good. You are 16 though, and I don't believe in eating like this at 16 years old, but that's a whole different topic I suppose.
I don't believe in the whole Tuna thing :) And I want to eat like that, with 1 cheat meal per week :)

Its around 2500 calories, with a 45/35/20 PCF Split. I'm looking for advice on my macronutrient timings. I have been doing a lot of research, and most is contradicting :(

I just want to make sure I'm doing things right, before I get too far into a cut :)

M1: 2 Whole Eggs, 4 Egg Whites, 50g Mushrooms, 1 Grapefruit

M2: 140g Tuna, 1tbsp Olive Oil

M3: 140g Tuna, 100g Broccoli, 100g Green Beans

M4: 100g Oats w/ 100ml Semi Skim Milk + 300ml Water, 150g Cottage Cheese

PWO: 50g Whey (27g Protein per 30g) 60g Dextrose

PPWO: This is dinner, and it changes everyday, because it is a family meal. It is usually Meat + Veggies + Pasta / Rice, never a Cheat meal!

M7: 150g Cottage Cheese, 1 Apple, 50g Peanuts

I'm after some critical analysis, simply because I want to do things as perfectly as I can :D

Stats:
184.5lbs
5' 11"
16 y.o

Workout:
Not too worried about this, as I have had it checked before, but thought I'd post it up for the sake of it.

Monday
Squats - 5x5
RDLs - 3x10
Split Squats - 3x10

Thursday
Bench - 5x5
Smith Shoulder Press - 3x10
Dips - 3xFailure

Friday
Deadlift - 5x5
Cable Rows - 3x10
Assisted Pullups - 3xFailure

Hey Foley. Meal 1 could use some complex carbs like oats. I would introduce an omega-3 fat source into your plan. Flax or fish oil are great for that:tu: Maybe you could swap those in place of the olive oil or the peanuts at night. I'd add some fat into meal 3 as well. For meal 4, I'd consider changing this to a lean meat + veggies + complex carb meal just for the digestion speed over cottage cheese. Of course that would all depend on the times of the meals. What exactly are you reading about macro-nutrient timing that is bothering you?

I keep forgetting that you're only 16. I agree you don't need to be this strict at that age, but if you're up for it, it won't hurt. On top of that, you'll be used to it by the time you're older so it won't be a problem for you then either.

Workout looks good:nod:

I don't believe in the whole Tuna thing :) And I want to eat like that, with 1 cheat meal per week :)

Then by all means, go ahead. Just don't miss out on your youth. :)

Its around 2500 calories, with a 45/35/20 PCF Split. I'm looking for advice on my macronutrient timings. I have been doing a lot of research, and most is contradicting :(

Okay, well this I like. I wasn't sure if it was 1500 calories or 2500 calories. I think at your age, and with your activity level, you should be around 2500 calories, give or take.

It's contradictory, because as usual, all experts have their own opinion. If I were you, I'd lose the dextrose PWO, but that's just me. As you know, many people disagree. As for the timing, I've done it all. While I've successfully cut down regardless of my macro timing, the following worked the best for me, personally.

Breakfast: P+F+C
Until pre-workout: P+F only
Pre-workout: P+C only
Post-workout: P+C or P+F+C
Next meal: P+F+some C
Rest of the day/night: P+F only

Basically, only carbs for breakfast, pre-workout and post-workout. On non-lifting days, only carbs for breakfast and one other meal throughout the day.

It's not the only way, but it definitely works (although an argument can be made it worked for me, but won't work for you).

Hey Foley. Meal 1 could use some complex carbs like oats. I would introduce an omega-3 fat source into your plan. Flax or fish oil are great for that:tu: Maybe you could swap those in place of the olive oil or the peanuts at night. I'd add some fat into meal 3 as well. For meal 4, I'd consider changing this to a lean meat + veggies + complex carb meal just for the digestion speed over cottage cheese. Of course that would all depend on the times of the meals. What exactly are you reading about macro-nutrient timing that is bothering you?

I keep forgetting that you're only 16. I agree you don't need to be this strict at that age, but if you're up for it, it won't hurt. On top of that, you'll be used to it by the time you're older so it won't be a problem for you then either.

Workout looks good:nod:

Well I have been reading about mixing carbs and fats really.

Based on your suggestion:

M1: If I add in say 50g Oats w/ 50ml Milk, then should I ditch the egg yolks, and take 6 egg whites?

M2: Flax powder is expensive, but I'll have a look around :)

M3: Yer I can do that :)

M4: I can't really afford anymore meat, unless I move the Tuna from M2 or M3. Any other options?

M5: I'll keep this the same as you didn't comment ;)

M6: Can't do anything about that :)

M7: I'll take your advice on the fats, and I'll ditch the carbs :)

About the age thing...

Don't take this personally, but I get a little :blank: when people tell me that "You're 16. don't worry about food too much!" etc

What I say to this is:
"I want to do this. What is the difference between me and someone older. If I want to get in good shape, by doing things how they should be, then why do I have to do things differently because of my age.
[/RANT]

And I agree with you that getting an early start, as it were, will help me in the future.

Then by all means, go ahead. Just don't miss out on your youth. :)



Okay, well this I like. I wasn't sure if it was 1500 calories or 2500 calories. I think at your age, and with your activity level, you should be around 2500 calories, give or take.

It's contradictory, because as usual, all experts have their own opinion. If I were you, I'd lose the dextrose PWO, but that's just me. As you know, many people disagree. As for the timing, I've done it all. While I've successfully cut down regardless of my macro timing, the following worked the best for me, personally.

Breakfast: P+F+C
Until pre-workout: P+F only
Pre-workout: P+C only
Post-workout: P+C or P+F+C
Next meal: P+F+some C
Rest of the day/night: P+F only

Basically, only carbs for breakfast, pre-workout and post-workout. On non-lifting days, only carbs for breakfast and one other meal throughout the day.

It's not the only way, but it definitely works (although an argument can be made it worked for me, but won't work for you).
Cheers KT.

I'm still gonna treat myself, just not as much as other kids :)

Yer, the 2500 works well for me, I tried the whole low calorie diet and it did not work one bit :)

Why do you not like Dextrose for PWO? Just wondering :)

And I take it from your personal favoruite breakdown of macronutrients, that you had no problems combining carbs and fats together? Interesting :confused:

Cheers KT.

I'm still gonna treat myself, just not as much as other kids :)

Yer, the 2500 works well for me, I tried the whole low calorie diet and it did not work one bit :)

Why do you not like Dextrose for PWO? Just wondering :)

And I take it from your personal favoruite breakdown of macronutrients, that you had no problems combining carbs and fats together? Interesting :confused:

I stopped using dextrose when I stopped using whey, about 2.5 years ago. I noticed no difference in fat loss, other than perhaps more without the dex. Since then, I've read many guys I respect a lot who are not fans of dextrose PWO when cutting, such as Mastover and a few of the guys at bb.com (the few whose opinions I respect) and it just confirmed what I had found myself. That said, many people do use whey/dex with success, so if you wish to continue using it, go right ahead. Just know you don't have to.

I've never had problems combining fats and carbs. Neither have 1000s of other people who are into bodybuilding (I believe John combines them now without harm). I know there are theories about fat storage when combining the two, but I've never experienced that. At least not when it's complex carbs and fats. Perhaps eating a snickers will do you harm, but we know better than that anyway. ;)

I stopped using dextrose when I stopped using whey, about 2.5 years ago. I noticed no difference in fat loss, other than perhaps more without the dex. Since then, I've read many guys I respect a lot who are not fans of dextrose PWO when cutting, such as Mastover and a few of the guys at bb.com (the few whose opinions I respect) and it just confirmed what I had found myself. That said, many people do use whey/dex with success, so if you wish to continue using it, go right ahead. Just know you don't have to.

I've never had problems combining fats and carbs. Neither have 1000s of other people who are into bodybuilding (I believe John combines them now without harm). I know there are theories about fat storage when combining the two, but I've never experienced that. At least not when it's complex carbs and fats. Perhaps eating a snickers will do you harm, but we know better than that anyway. ;)
Cheers dude, I'm just looking for the "right" answer, and it seems that there isn't one of them :)

I just want to get things done ASAP and I thought the macronutrient timings affected the time scale the most, in terms of fat loss and preservation (is that a word?) or lean mass.

CURRENT STATS
W: 184.5LBS
BF: 11.75%
How did you determine your current %BF?
You're cutting? Really? Do you have pics in a journal somewhere?

How long is the proposed cut?What is your target BF?

If you ARE going to cut, know that you likely, don't want to cut too far.
For 16 and those stats, I'd really ask you to consider just maintaining your weight and start pushing your 1RM's for reps.

Bodyfat is measured using this formula:

Waist + (Hips*0.5) - (Forearm*3) - Wrist

So for me its:

32.5 + (38*0.5) - (11*3) - 6.75

32.5 + 19 - 33 - 6.75

51.5 - 39.75 = 11.75

However, I think that is wrong. I have attached a picture at the bottom. I want to cut till im no less than 175lbs, so I am trying to cut slowly; 0.5 - 1 lb a week fat loss. I guess I will cut till mid April, depending on how well I do between my current bout of flu and then.

What do you think I would gain by just trying to maintain and increase my 1RMs? Just curious :)

Why do people also recommend not to do what I thought I should do at 16? Again, just curious.. why is this?

Edit:

Looking at that I think I'm more 14-15% bodyfat :)

Why do people also recommend not to do what I thought I should do at 16? Again, just curious.. why is this?

Same here. I am 18 y/o doing all that-clean diet but no cheat meals, I never miss a workout etc...it only makes me feel better and more confident.
There were times when I crossed the line, but then I'd just eat some more oatmeal or peanuts or something like that---not junk food. Seriously, I've had my time of sweets and chips, and I got sick of that.
I don't feel like I am wasting my youth b/c of controling myself and not eating junk food (there are better things that make youth than that :)), I simply couldn't function any other way-knowing that I could've done better.

I don't feel like I am wasting my youth b/c of controling myself and not eating junk food (there are better things that make youth than that :)), I simply couldn't function any other way-knowing that I could've done better.

It's not the eating junk food that causes you to miss out on your youth. It's the isolating yourself from friends to avoid eating such foods that does. If you still go out with your friends and just make healthy choices, that's fine. I did that for many years when I was younger. But if you find yourself passing up the opportunity to join your friends because you might not eat grilled chicken and broccoli... well then you are making a big mistake IMO.

And I take it from your personal favoruite breakdown of macronutrients, that you had no problems combining carbs and fats together? Interesting :confused:
KT isn't the only one... :)

It's not the eating junk food that causes you to miss out on your youth. It's the isolating yourself from friends to avoid eating such foods that does. If you still go out with your friends and just make healthy choices, that's fine. I did that for many years when I was younger. But if you find yourself passing up the opportunity to join your friends because you might not eat grilled chicken and broccoli... well then you are making a big mistake IMO.
I completely understand what you're saying and I agree. I try not to ever do that, but I do give my best to think of an alternative healthy meal, training etc when possible, and it almost always is.:cool:

Sure you should not sacrifice your youth and all that, but there another side to it.

IMHO Foley? You should not be cutting right now.

Sure you should not sacrifice your youth and all that, but there another side to it.

IMHO Foley? You should not be cutting right now.
After seeing the pic, I agree with this statement. Although I question if 2500 calories is really cutting for him? Perhaps staying in the 2500-3000 range would be a good idea. I don't know.

Dex is really not needed? Hmmm... what's a better alternative?

By all means eat healthy... I'm not suggesting you get a free pass to eat pizza and McDonalds (well maybe pizza), but at the same time you have to live in moderation. From your pic I really wouldn't worry about cutting. If you were grossly overweight then I would suggest a cut but only with supervision. The simple fact is that even at 16, you are undergoing physical developmental changes and calorie restriction ("cutting") is not your best option. Hormonally your charged, so this is the time to take advantage of muscle growth. In other words, you eat healthy and do some solid lifting. You're better off adding LBM and recompositioning yourself than you are trying to lose bodyfat (IMO).

Add muscle mass. Where you're at right now, you're in a better position to add muscle mass than lose fat. It all depends on the look you're after I suppose, but I think if you added muscle, you'd be better off. If you lose body fat, you'll inevitably lose some muscle mass and while some areas on your body are built up enough to withstand that, other areas aren't.

my nickel.

OK, points taken :)

So what I should really do is eat healthily, and lots of it, and lift heavy :)

Sounds better I guess...

What do you think my bodyfat is based on the picture I posted?

OK, points taken :)

So what I should really do is eat healthily, and lots of it, and lift heavy :)

Sounds better I guess... Yesterday 11:19 PM
You've made a good decision, you'll see for yourself in a few months.
I was in a very similar situation as you three months ago, and I decided to do a slow, clean bulk. It's amazing how much stronger you can become in the first few months of lifting-I had the same 1RMs three months ago as you do now in your signature. Now I've added about 20kgs to each one. :)

After looking at that pic, and some other pic you posted when you asked for BB row form, I can say you really are lean-and your guess of 14-15% is correct imho. What's a bit confusing to me is your weight-how tall are you?

You've made a good decision, you'll see for yourself in a few months.
I was in a very similar situation as you three months ago, and I decided to do a slow, clean bulk. It's amazing how much stronger you can become in the first few months of lifting-I had the same 1RMs three months ago as you do now in your signature. Now I've added about 20kgs to each one. :)

After looking at that pic, and some other pic you posted when you asked for BB row form, I can say you really are lean-and your guess of 14-15% is correct imho. What's a bit confusing to me is your weight-how tall are you?
All I want is advice, and cheers to you for your input, very much appreciated :)

I think I'm between 5ft 11 and 6ft :)

Wow, after reading this I have two comments:

1--I *wish* I would have skipped pizza/beer with my friends to have chicken+broccoli...because then I wouldn't be a fatass with no girlfriend right now! haha

2-- Foley, put our collar down! You aren't the Fonz :D!

I think I'm between 5ft 11 and 6ft :)
I was asking b/c you have almost identical proportions as I do-I am about 183lbs, 6ft tall :). I am two years older though-so I'd say that's pretty good for your age.

I was asking b/c you have almost identical proportions as I do-I am about 183lbs, 6ft tall :). I am two years older though-so I'd say that's pretty good for your age.
Ok :)

What was your bulk like? PM me if you want :)

Bodyfat is measured using this formula:

Waist + (Hips*0.5) - (Forearm*3) - Wrist

So for me its:

32.5 + (38*0.5) - (11*3) - 6.75

32.5 + 19 - 33 - 6.75

51.5 - 39.75 = 11.75

However, I think that is wrong. I have attached a picture at the bottom. I want to cut till im no less than 175lbs, so I am trying to cut slowly; 0.5 - 1 lb a week fat loss. I guess I will cut till mid April, depending on how well I do between my current bout of flu and then.

What do you think I would gain by just trying to maintain and increase my 1RMs? Just curious :)

Why do people also recommend not to do what I thought I should do at 16? Again, just curious.. why is this?
Sorry I didn't catch this before. The forearm measurement is wrong. It should be *2.7 not *3.0. This would make your bf% 15.05.

I wondered why I was gettin 11.75 LoL

I wondered why I was gettin 11.75 LoL
Yeah, you're probably closer to 14%. No biggie.

IMO, if you eat pretty healthy and exercise regularly, good things will happen. You're young. Your metabolism is probably roaring. I say eat around maintenance or slightly above for a while and see where it takes you.

Yer, that seems the general concensus from the advice I've been given.

My only problem is eating enough protein. Its just too expensive for me, as I'm a kid :) Mmmm :confused:

Yer, that seems the general concensus from the advice I've been given.

My only problem is eating enough protein. Its just too expensive for me, as I'm a kid :) Mmmm :confused:
Don't worry too much about that right now. As long as you have a decent amount (15-30g) in most meals, you'll be fine. I promise you.

Don't worry too much about that right now. As long as you have a decent amount (15-30g) in most meals, you'll be fine. I promise you.
OK cheers :)

Ok guys here is what I came up with, no point in starting a new thread really :)

================================================== ===

Trying to formulate a "bulking plan".

Here is what I have so far.

Training

Meal 1:
6 egg whites, 100ml milk, 50g Oats, 1 Grapefruit [More protein?]

Meal 2:
140g Tuna, 2tbsp Olive Oil [Anything else?]

Meal 3:
140g Tuna, 100g Broccoli, 100g Green Beans, [Maybe a complex carb?]

Meal 4:
150g Cottage Cheese, 50g Oats, 50ml milk, 1 Apple [Can't afford more meat, any other ideas?]

Workout

PWO: 30g Whey, 60g Dextrose [This works for me :)]

PPWO: Family Dinner + Apple [Healthy always:D]

Meal 7:
150g Cottage Cheese, 50g Peanuts [Any other ideas?]

================================================== ===

My queries are in the [.........]

Sorry I didn't catch this before. The forearm measurement is wrong. It should be *2.7 not *3.0. This would make your bf% 15.05.
Do you by any chance know of any bf calculator that involves measurements from legs?

Do you by any chance know of any bf calculator that involves measurements from legs?
Sorry, and I'm not an expert on bodyfat calculators. I only know the one I use and created a spreadsheet based on its calculations. There are plenty of bf% calculators out there. Don't know if any are based on legs though.

I don't know why so many people are against the cut. I don't see much problems with it as long as you do it intelligently. And why does the 16 year old thing come up so much? Does age really matter when you decide to cut or not? I guess it could in some ways but as long as you don't do it too strictly (really low calories), I don't see much of a problem.

I don't know why so many people are against the cut. I don't see much problems with it as long as you do it intelligently. And why does the 16 year old thing come up so much? Does age really matter when you decide to cut or not? I guess it could in some ways but as long as you don't do it too strictly (really low calories), I don't see much of a problem.
At a younger age it's much easier to add muscle, with differences in hormones and metabolism and all that, not to mention he's not sitting at a desk like me (haha).

If Foley was interested in being an average kid and just "dropping some pounds" then I would tell him to go ahead and cut. We set higher standards for him because we think he wants to look above average.

Nobody said "dirty bulk with lots of garbage food." We're talking about eating slightly over maintenance, lots of clean calories, a few cheats here and there (because he deserves it and also because he can get away with it no problem).

In the end it's each person's decision whether or not to cut or bulk. I just don't see him as being fat and overweight, and feel that the next few years will be important in terms of building a solid, muscular foundation.

At a younger age it's much easier to add muscle, with differences in hormones and metabolism and all that, not to mention he's not sitting at a desk like me (haha).

<snip>

In the end it's each person's decision whether or not to cut or bulk. I just don't see him as being fat and overweight, and feel that the next few years will be important in terms of building a solid, muscular foundation.

Absolutely. What would every one of us give to be able to go back in time with what we've learned here and 'redo' ages 16-26 in terms of muscle building, diet, etc. Those that is, like me, that squandered that time.

I don't know why so many people are against the cut. I don't see much problems with it as long as you do it intelligently. And why does the 16 year old thing come up so much? Does age really matter when you decide to cut or not? I guess it could in some ways but as long as you don't do it too strictly (really low calories), I don't see much of a problem.

I don't think everybody is "against" the cut, but they're more for the bulk and taking advantage of Foley's age. He can cut anytime he wants, but he will never have the growth benefits of a 16 year old ever again.

Wow cheers guys :)

I think I will take advantage of the time I have and do a clean bulk. I'll post up a bulking plan in the bulking forum, and I'll even go read the stickies ;)

Cheers again :D

I don't know why so many people are against the cut. I don't see much problems with it as long as you do it intelligently. And why does the 16 year old thing come up so much? Does age really matter when you decide to cut or not? I guess it could in some ways but as long as you don't do it too strictly (really low calories), I don't see much of a problem.

I think cutting too aggressively while you are still growing (unless you are over-fat) risks affecting overall growth in areas such as height that you don't want to mess with. Not to mention the fact that up into your early 20s you have tons of potential based on higher metabolism and hormone levels to add muscle if you do it intelligently.

Those of us a few years down the line have learned things aren't quite as easy, and wish we'd had more sense in our teens and 20s. Some of it is us being a little jealous that we can't go back and build a better base to work from now that we're older and have wised up a bit :)