As far as cutting, is it best to consume the first 1 or 2 meals after a 45 min fasted LISS cardio session? I feel much better consuming a P+C meal right after, however, not sure this is ideal for cutting.

What do you recommend??

And if P+C meals are okay, can I consume Oatmeal+1/2 apple or so?

Making sure my macro timing is spot on!

Thanks!

BTW: I have my diet plan setup pretty well with P+C and P+F meals and taking in around 1800 - 2100 kcals a day with clean foods ONLY! The higher cal days are on my lifting days, a 4 day split, 2 on/1 off, then repeat. I am also using a stack of T3 Thermo+Caffeine....Thinking about switching to an ECA stack soon.

What do you recommend??
Stay away from carbs after LISS. The carbs you ingest will become the most readily available source of energy, and your body will use it instead of body fat. Stick to P+F post-LISS.

-R

According to my meal plan, I consume 34gP and 15gF on my P+F meals. Just making sure that 15gF is not too much post LISS. I could always add more F to the other P+F meals if it is.

Thanks for the reply!

That should work just fine for someone around 140 to at least 160 lbs. or so. I'm 148-lbs. and use around 30-40g protein and 10-15g fat for my post-LISS cardio meals.

-R

I'm not that light, 175. However I consume 4 P+F meals, total 62gF per day cardio and 50gF on weight days.

To get more in depth, on my Cardio days, here is the plan:

22gP+BCAA+stack pre cardio
34gP ea. meal
15gF in 4 meals - 2 after cardio and 2 after P+C meals
65gC in 2 meals - meal 4 & 5

In the P+F meals, about 5gC...brocolli/veggies
In the P+C meals, about 2gF...incidental in chicken,etc.

This works out to 1802Kcal on my cardio days

Weight Days:

My P+C meals are 60-90min prewkout/PWO1/PWO2.

226gP 165gC 50gF = 2014Kcals sometimes a bit less protein & carbs.

Does this Look Good?

Does this Look Good?
I don't have any heartburn with this plan. You might consider upping your calories just a bit to preserve lean mass. I can lose body fat at 1,800 kcals per day. If I can do it at my weight, you might be risking lean mass at your size without a few extra calories. I shoot for 1800 or so, which works out to 12 or 13 times my body weight as a rule for me. If I keep my protein in the 1.0-1.2 gm/lb body weight, I'm gold. When I get outside that, things get dicey and don't work as well. Consistency of exercise erases most minor dietary transgressions, though.

Just a thought. Add a few bites to eat to the day.

-R

I bumped up my intake.

Please review my spreadsheet. If you have any suggestions, please let me know!

http://216.154.231.149/maury/mydietplan.xls


I appreciate the help!

You can have carbs in your first meal after your LISS if you wait about 1/2 hour until you eat. By that time lipolysis has already stopped for the most part, and you are no longer burning fat because you aren't in ketosis which would be required to burn fat for energy w/out the heart-rate being elevated in the appropriate fat burning zone as is the case when one is doing LISS cardio. The "wave" of lipolysis is usually about 20-30 minutes post-cardio, and I myself then consume my oatmeal and egg whites at that time every morning. I'm currently sitting at 5-6% bodyfat and I am holding that condition for purposes of modeling, club hosting appearances, radio station interviews/hosting, etc. I'll also be in a music video on MTV/BET soon, but more on that later, I'm getting of track here out of pure excitement, :lol: .

Those who choose to eat a fat/protein meal after cardio can do so literally right after they are done as there is a very minimal (if at all) affect on blood sugar. (depends on how much protein vs. fat is consumed in that particular meal)

Just some suggestions. :)

~SC~

Thank you Chris!

I'm looking forward to carbing up as quickly in the day as possible so I get energy going quicker.

I'm going to add R-ALA to the diet to curb any affects of the carbs in each of my P+C meals.

Weighed in at 174 today....making progress. I stopped taking the creatine the other day, so I think I'm dropping some water weight as well.

Ideally, what is prefferred after LISS? Protein/Fat meal or Protein/Carb meals? Swole I've learned from you to do a Protein/Fat meal after LISS, but it looks like you do carbs/protein for meal 1.

I always utilize a protein and fat meal after cardio, regardless of intensity, when cutting.

Works very, very well.

It depends on your goals and on what you need. A p+c-meal is better for recovery. After "LISS" I guess a p+f-meal can help fatloss a bit.

Atm I´m not eating like that however. Even if I´m cutting. Because my training volume is high and I´m doing both higher intensity cardio and intense progressive weight training. So in this case I must eat for best possible recovery. p+f-meals close to training is a very bad idéa for me in this situation. I only eat a p+f-meal before I go to bed...

With lower volume training and a plan depending on the diet doing most of the work/fat burning it can make sense to eat p+f after cardio.

The alternatives are. (1)Eat to help recovery or (2) eat to help fatloss.
Your choice must depend on your training and your total diet. Also on your goal and on how you feel. "2" will only help fatloss if it fits your plan and needs. If not it can hurt progress...

Ideally, what is prefferred after LISS? Protein/Fat meal or Protein/Carb meals? Swole I've learned from you to do a Protein/Fat meal after LISS, but it looks like you do carbs/protein for meal 1.

The approach I created for YOU had a protein/fat meal a certain time period after the LISS session, yes. That was done because of the timing of the meals, your daily activities/work and such, etc. I myself choose pro/carbs because I am maintaining my weight as of now, and even when I do cut, I wait about 30-40 mins. to eat my carb/protein meal as lipolysis is basically over at that point in time so the ingestion of very low gi carbs after that time period is totally fine.

People can always try both methods for "X" amount of time and see which seems to assist the entire approach in a better manner.

~SC~

This is more big picture than your specific question, but I Think it would be of interest to you.

J Beaty: What are your thoughts on the reemergence of the macronutrient food combining theory where carbs shouldn't be mixed with protein/fat meals and fat shouldn't be mixed with protein/carb meals?

L Norton: This is a rather simplistic way of looking at nutrition and focuses mainly on insulin rather than looking at the whole picture. While it probably isn't
a good idea to have a really high carb meal with a really high fat meal, there's nothing wrong with having moderate amounts of both.

W Brink: like many theories, it comes around every few years or decades and gets people all worked up over their food. Problem is, it's no more true today then it was when the book Fit for Life by Harvey and Marilyn Diamond came out. The theory had no scientific support then and it has none now. Humans have been combining fats, carbs, and proteins quite successfully for eons and as omnivores, are perfectly capable of digesting mixed meals.

J Hale: You are probably referring to the theory that assumes insulin and blood levels of fat should never be raised at the same time. This theory assumes that insulin is the key contributor to obesity. There are a few things wrong with this line of thought. One of the key problems is not recognizing something called Acylation Stimulating Protein. Acylation stimulating protein (ASP) is a hormone produced by adipocytes and is of importance for the storage of energy as fat. The consumption of dietary fat alone can increase fat storage. Dietary fat affects fat cell metabolism with NO INCREASE in insulin. Some studies have indicated dietary fat loading found a decrease in HSL (hormone sensitive lipase) and an activation of fat storage despite no increase in insulin. The key reason was activation of acylation stimulating protein (ASP) which is activated by the presence of chylomicrons (basically packaged triglycerides that are found in the bloodstream after the meal). ASP increases glucose uptake into the fat cell, increases insulin release from the pancreas and has been described as 'the most potent stimulator of triglyceride storage' in the fat cells by numerous scientists. Another problem with this line of thought is some proteins causes substantial elevations in insulin. Minimal levels of insulin affect fat cell metabolism. Basal levels can decrease lipolysis by 50%. Another consideration is most bbers are eating every 2-3 hrs so nutrients are still absorbing from previous meals; therefore previous meals interact with the blood levels of nutrients of the present meal.

A study conducted by Golay and colleagues compared a diet with equal macronutrient content and substrate percentages; that differed only in how the substrates were consumed (mixed diet vs. food combining). The results were no difference in weight loss. Here are the exact results reported by the researchers.
“Results: There was no significant difference in the amount of weight loss in response to dissociated (6.2 +/- 0.6 kg) or balanced (7.5 +/- 0.4 kg) diets. Furthermore, significant decreases in total body fat and waist-to-hip circumference ratio were seen in both groups, and the magnitude of the changes did not vary as a function of the diet composition. Fasting plasma glucose, insulin, total cholesterol and triacylglycerol concentrations decreased significantly and similarly in patients receiving both diets. Both systolic and diastolic blood pressure values decreased significantly in patients eating balanced diets. The results of this study show that both diets achieved similar weight loss. Total fat weight loss was higher in balanced diets, although differences did not reach statistical significance. Total lean body mass was identically spared in both groups. CONCLUSION: In summary at identical energy intake and similar substrate composition, the dissociated (or 'food combining') diet did not bring any additional loss in weight and body fat”. Actually looks like a slight increase in fat loss with mixed diet (balanced diet).

We have tons of anecdotal evidence that denies the need for food combining. We have evolved on a mixed diet. With all of that said food combining may be beneficial regarding calorie control. Once you eliminate an entire macronutrient from a meal this can go a long way in decreasing total caloric intake. If this is what you need to do to control energy intake feel free to do so.

A Aragon: I think that the “P+C & P+F = okay but avoid C+F” principle is idiotic when applied across the board without any contingencies or attention to individual situations. For example, if someone is low-carbing for whatever reason you choose (pathological carbophobia included), they might be done with their carb intake by early afternoon, and their meal construction for the rest of the day is gonna be primarily P+F by sheer default. In the latter scenario, I can see the principle being legit.

However, when issued blanketly, it’s usually based upon the wacky idea that you don’t want fat floating around systemically when your insulin levels are high, because this will magically shift your net adipose balance in the positive. That’s false for a number of reasons. First of all, the insulin response generated by CHO + fat generally depends upon the degree of the fat’s saturation. Unsaturated fats tend to either lower insulin response of the coingested carbs, or not affect insulin response at all. Coingested sat fat, on the other hand, tends to raise insulin response, and can do so in a synergistic fashion. But then the question becomes, so what? Others have mentioned the more direct role ASP has in TG synthesis, and indeed, insulin is more of a multi-tasking anabolic/anticatabolic agent in comparison to ASP, which seems to exist solely to pump up the adipocytes. And of course the kicker is that ASP can do its TG-synthesizing magic in the sheer absence of insulin.

And then there’s energy balance… In a negative energy balance, insulinogenesis is wonderful thing, as long as the training stimulus & nutrition is there to work in concert with it to preserve LBM. In the condition of a positive energy balance, trainees in general are gonna have a lot more carbs to throw around, so this makes the whole separation thing even more dicey. Which meals should be carb-free or fat-free in order to pull of this magic separation tactic, and why? The logical answers to this question simply don’t exist. If you were to actually adhere to the mechanics of separation, you’d actually be hard-pressed to maintain a stable insulin profile – which is ironic, since the control of insulin is what “separatists” are aiming for. Regardless of all the previous points, the fundamental shortsight is that digestion/absorption of meals overlap each other when meal frequency is as high as it should be. Therefore, attempting strict separation of the macros = kidding yourself. Not to mention, most foods in nature are a combo of all the macros to begin with.


http://www.fitfriends.com/showthread.php?t=21070