I made a topic about whether I should cut or bulk about a month ago, and most people suggested that I bulk. However, I really don't feel comfortable going through with a bulk at the moment. I still have too much fat, and it really bothers me when I look in the mirror. The thing is, everyone thinks I'm skinny. You cant tell i have any fat when I'm wearing clothes. My arms look skinny, my shoulders look skinny, and my upper back looks skinny. But as soon as the shirt comes off, you can see all the excess fat on my stomach and chest.

I know people told me to do a slow bulk and then cut, but I don't see why I cant cut first and then bulk. I believe this is what John did. I want to get rid of my chest fat. I've been overweight all my life, and I've never had a flat chest. I really want to get it flat before I start a bulk. Here's some pics:

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/4628/cimg6236mediumus0.jpg

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/2452/cimg6237mediumve9.jpg

Any BF estimate? I'm about 5'11 and 155 lbs.

Please post with anything that could help me. I'll post my diet and routine when I come home later.

I still say bulk. I think it'll be a lot easer to get the look you want AFTER you put some muscle on.

And I don't think I'd call 5'11" and 155 "overweight."

You are in a similar situation as me. People think I'm lean but when my clothes come off, you can see the fat. This is known by many as skinny fat, which is low body weight but high body fat%. Now when I cut, I notice that I can only go so far (only to around 14% body fat. The closest I ever got to was 12% but to reach that it took 5months of daily cardio, 4x a week of weights, with no cheating on diet, etc. Once I got to 12%, I couldn't break it no matter what I did. And believe me, I tried everything) I agree with Bart. Go for a bulk. Once you gain enough lean body mass, then go for a cut to remove whatever excess fat you have left.

What I noticed for me is that it's extremely difficult to cut body fat when you have low lean mass. Even getting to around 14-15% is somewhat difficult, although I always make it with determination. Currently what I'm doing is bulking for a month until I look fat, cut back to around 14-15%, bulk, cut, and do it over and over again. While it's taking forever to reach my goals, my skinfold tests are telling me that I'm slowly gaining lean body mass. My plan is once I gain enough lean body mass, I'm going on an all out cut to reach my goal of 10%.

:gl:

If it bothers you to "bulk". Don't do it. But I also think it's a mistake to cut as well. 5'11" 155 IS skinny, even if it isn't lean.

How about just eating at maintenance and lifting heavy? Go for a gradual body recomposition. Work on eating clean, timing your nutrition properly, and getting stronger.

I would bulk myself if I were you, but can understand the fear of adding fat as well as lean mass.

You, like most of the rest of us, obviously didn't get to where you are now in a couple of days :nod:

Body (re)composition takes months, even years. It is a slow, but seemingly fulfilling journey. Ok enough of that crap.

Do what you want to do. But IMO, do you really want to look like a skeleton, once you have cut to a low body-fat percentage? I agree with MannishBoy. Eat enough to maintain your weight, or slightly higher, and make sure you are eating clean, wholesome foods. At the same time, hit the weights hard.

Once you have packed on some mass; do a cut; and reveal your hard work.

Just my 2 cents...

I guess I'm in the minority position here, but I would cut (slowly). I'm terrified of fat and I hate being above a certain bf% no matter what. Get yourself to a comfortable bf%--you'll feel better, and you'll put on leaner muscle when you slowly bulk.

If you need professional inspiration/advice, check out this amazing article arguing that we should all try to stay sub-10%: http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1268956

It may get difficult to keep losing weight, but I think you could probably go a ways. Personally I subscribe to a different body-aesthetic than the one typically espoused by bodybuilders: I think it looks much better to be super-lean and thin than watery and big (or even super-lean and big, but that's another subject).

Lastly, go for it because clearly you want to. If you run into trouble, then lift heavy at maintence or bulk slowly. But there's no harm in trying it for at least a few weeks to see where it gets you.

I guess I'm in the minority position here, but I would cut (slowly). I'm terrified of fat and I hate being above a certain bf% no matter what. Get yourself to a comfortable bf%--you'll feel better, and you'll put on leaner muscle when you slowly bulk.

If you need professional inspiration/advice, check out this amazing article arguing that we should all try to stay sub-10%: http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1268956

It may get difficult to keep losing weight, but I think you could probably go a ways. Personally I subscribe to a different body-aesthetic than the one typically espoused by bodybuilders: I think it looks much better to be super-lean and thin than watery and big (or even super-lean and big, but that's another subject).

Lastly, go for it because clearly you want to. If you run into trouble, then lift heavy at maintence or bulk slowly. But there's no harm in trying it for at least a few weeks to see where it gets you.
Thats kinda the same thing I was saying :) Great article, explains it well.

I guess I'm in the minority position here, but I would cut (slowly). I'm terrified of fat and I hate being above a certain bf% no matter what. Get yourself to a comfortable bf%--you'll feel better, and you'll put on leaner muscle when you slowly bulk.

If you need professional inspiration/advice, check out this amazing article arguing that we should all try to stay sub-10%: http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1268956

It may get difficult to keep losing weight, but I think you could probably go a ways. Personally I subscribe to a different body-aesthetic than the one typically espoused by bodybuilders: I think it looks much better to be super-lean and thin than watery and big (or even super-lean and big, but that's another subject).

Lastly, go for it because clearly you want to. If you run into trouble, then lift heavy at maintence or bulk slowly. But there's no harm in trying it for at least a few weeks to see where it gets you.
:eek: That was a damn fine article! Thank you for that.

robots, after looking at your pics, my humble oppinion is that you in fact don't have as much fat in your chest as you think (especially after looking at the side pic), but you don't have a whole lot of muscle there either. Adding some muscle there would probably make your chest look much better. Anyway, start lifting regularly and eat around maintenance. That's my advice. :gl:

the CT article is a good one...but im sorry you dont need to cut anything....theres not much too cut...your a skinny lil guy..you need to EAT and LIFT...not worry about getting alil bigger....you could stand to get alot bigger....

You're a perfect candidate for "culking"... slow combo bulk/cut.

You could -try- to get skinny but it'll be hard; you may find yourself with little pooches of skin around you belly and nipples... but you could try. You know how John got there- are you willing to do the time?

John had a history of muscle to fall back on, plus he's a freak :D j/k John. I mean that with love. :p

You're a perfect candidate for "culking"... slow combo bluk/cut.

"Culking"... Interesting term. I like it. I guess I'm currently "Culking" then.

You're a perfect candidate for "culking"... slow combo bluk/cut.

"Culking"... Interesting term. I like it. I guess I'm currently "Culking" then.
Haha. Culking vs. butting. :bang:

I know that I'm not really overweight. I'm skinny fat. But the thing is, I used to weigh about 200 lbs before I started working out and eating healthy. That's my I'm afraid to bulk. If I end up gaining too much fat it I'd probably freak out.

About looking like a skeleton after I cut: I don't plan on staying at that weight. I'm going to bulk eventually, I just have to decide whether I bulk first and then cut, or I cut and then bulk.

"Culking" sounds like something that might work for me. I've heard it suggested to me before and it makes sense.

I'm going to give it more thought and do some more research before I decide what to do. However, I do want to look better by the time summer rolls in (around June). Would I have time for a bulk and then a cut?

I know that I'm not really overweight. I'm skinny fat. But the thing is, I used to weigh about 200 lbs before I started working out and eating healthy. That's my I'm afraid to bulk. If I end up gaining too much fat it I'd probably freak out.

About looking like a skeleton after I cut: I don't plan on staying at that weight. I'm going to bulk eventually, I just have to decide whether I bulk first and then cut, or I cut and then bulk.

"Culking" sounds like something that might work for me. I've heard it suggested to me before and it makes sense.

I'm going to give it more thought and do some more research before I decide what to do. However, I do want to look better by the time summer rolls in (around June). Would I have time for a bulk and then a cut?

You could bulk until May and then cut but I highly doubt you'll look how you want to by June. It's just not enough time. But if you bulk correctly, I think you'll look a lot better than you do now.

If you're gonna bulk anyway sooner or later, do it now!

Maybe it's just me...

I agree with what they're telling you. You need to put on muscle. Just eat clean and hit the weights hard and you'll get more muscle. That will make you look a lot better and will allow you to burn fat a lot faster. You can not go to a low bf if you have no muscle or you'll look like a skeleton.

I know that I'm not really overweight. I'm skinny fat. But the thing is, I used to weigh about 200 lbs before I started working out and eating healthy. That's my I'm afraid to bulk. If I end up gaining too much fat it I'd probably freak out.

About looking like a skeleton after I cut: I don't plan on staying at that weight. I'm going to bulk eventually, I just have to decide whether I bulk first and then cut, or I cut and then bulk.

"Culking" sounds like something that might work for me. I've heard it suggested to me before and it makes sense.

I'm going to give it more thought and do some more research before I decide what to do. However, I do want to look better by the time summer rolls in (around June). Would I have time for a bulk and then a cut?

Robots- if you think you need to cut at your size, you haven't been around the iron long enough. You need to get yourself into the gym, pick up heavy weights over and over again a lot, and then eat your brains out. Sure, you may suffer a tiny bit from former fat boy syndrome, but you don't have any base to start from that a lot of FFB's have.

If you were to cut, you'd probably need to hit 140-145 to see any muscle definition (which will most likely be bone definition). Sorry to be brutally honest, but you need to start lifting weights and think long term- like a year for a good bulk.



I agree with what they're telling you. You need to put on muscle. Just eat clean and hit the weights hard and you'll get more muscle. That will make you look a lot better and will allow you to burn fat a lot faster. You can not go to a low bf if you have no muscle or you'll look like a skeleton.

Robots

Your body is crying out for weight training!!! Big Time.:bb:

It is a coin toss on diet being for cut or bulk. There is also maintenance. Just start heavy weights.

Hit the weight room and start bulking. I would say get to 175 then cut back. Dont start cutting now, cause your body is so small theres not going to be much to cut. Bulk then cut.

I understand how you feel, not wanting to put on fat. I have never been overweight but really don't like the way I look if my bodyfat gets much above 10-12%. I try to eat an amount of quality food that will allow my strength to continue to increase without me gaining significant fat. I use the scale, tape measure and mirror to monitor this. Since I am trying to gain more muscle I make sure my weight gradually increases. It may drop down a couple of pounds when I lose some fat due to eating a bit less or working out more, but generally I want to see slight increases without my waist getting bigger.

Haha, I guess I have no choice but to bulk up then. I had the idea stuck in my head that I could cut first to get to where I wanted, but realistically, I need to bulk before I do anything. I'm working on a diet, so I'll post it when I'm done. Same as the workout schedule.

Dude, I can say we have very similar body types. I don't have alot of fat on me, just pretty much a gut. And like you I get called skinny all the time. I did bulk for a bit though. Don't think that bulking will get you fat. You'll put on a bit of fat of course, but it's not like you'll wake up and have way more then you bargained for. Use a small surplus, and lift heavy.

But, if you want to cut first, go ahead. It's all up to you. I'm cutting now, though I think people on these boards would think I should bulk a bit more. Just remember not to use a huge deficit. The leaner you are the harder it is to lose fat.

I know that I'm not really overweight. I'm skinny fat. But the thing is, I used to weigh about 200 lbs before I started working out and eating healthy. That's my I'm afraid to bulk. If I end up gaining too much fat it I'd probably freak out.

About looking like a skeleton after I cut: I don't plan on staying at that weight. I'm going to bulk eventually, I just have to decide whether I bulk first and then cut, or I cut and then bulk.

"Culking" sounds like something that might work for me. I've heard it suggested to me before and it makes sense.

I'm going to give it more thought and do some more research before I decide what to do. However, I do want to look better by the time summer rolls in (around June). Would I have time for a bulk and then a cut?

In all honesty, your pics scared me because it was like looking at a mirror. I looked exactly the same way about 4-5 months ago. I tried just about everything and was getting mixed results. However, after I tried a ketogenic diet like a cyclical ketogenic diet, my results vastly improved. At the same time, I was still lifting heavy. But on ketogenic diet, you tend to lose alot of your water weight and I noticed that it tightened up alot of loose spots on my body.

In all honesty, your pics scared me because it was like looking at a mirror. I looked exactly the same way about 4-5 months ago. I tried just about everything and was getting mixed results. However, after I tried a ketogenic diet like a cyclical ketogenic diet, my results vastly improved. At the same time, I was still lifting heavy. But on ketogenic diet, you tend to lose alot of your water weight and I noticed that it tightened up alot of loose spots on my body.

I remember reading about the ckd a while ago. It involves some sort of carb cycling if I remember correctly. That does sound like something I could do for a little while. I'll look into it.

I remember reading about the ckd a while ago. It involves some sort of carb cycling if I remember correctly. That does sound like something I could do for a little while. I'll look into it.

You should really check it out because I had the same body type like exact match. I can say I probably tried everything you have. I've been wanting to bulk for awhile but decided that with my body type I would cut down as much as possible and then bulk cause i know with our body types it does not look good to have fat

You should really check it out because I had the same body type like exact match. I can say I probably tried everything you have. I've been wanting to bulk for awhile but decided that with my body type I would cut down as much as possible and then bulk cause i know with our body types it does not look good to have fat

Yea, I know what you mean. Do you have your diet / workout routine written down anywhere? Also, how long were you on the diet? I was looking at this site and it seemed pretty interesting:

http://www.musclenet.com/getbulky/Info/WeightLoss/KetogenicDieting.htm

Does anyone have any first hand experience with a CKD? I plan on doing it for only a short period: 4-8 weeks. Would it work well with my body type?

I would suggest learning how to eat properly for the long term, rather than trying some fad-type short term diets. CKD has it's place, sure....but knowing how to choose the correct foods and creating a meal plan on your own for every instance would be more productive. With lean meats, lots of veggies, low-glycemic carbs, and good healthy fats, you can construct an eating plan (I don't like the word diet very much) for cutting, bulking, and maintaining.



Does anyone have any first hand experience with a CKD? I plan on doing it for only a short period: 4-8 weeks. Would it work well with my body type?

I know how to eat properly for cutting and bulking. However, I would like to lose a little extra water weight and become a little tighter before I bulk.

To be honest, there's no point. In your first week of 'bulking', you will gain back that water weight and start looking a little softer again due to excess calorie intake. Ketogenic diets are for specific short term goals, with limited results.

I don't mean to sound condescending, but if you knew how to eat properly, you wouldn't be here asking for advice. Pick up John Berardi's recent book. It should help you construct a good eating plan.



I know how to eat properly for cutting and bulking. However, I would like to lose a little extra water weight and become a little tighter before I bulk.

I see those pictures and think, "Damn, he's skinny." I don't see fat. I think you need to consider building muscle, not cutting MORE food from your diet. In fact I would worry if you started eating less...

Yea, I know what you mean. Do you have your diet / workout routine written down anywhere? Also, how long were you on the diet? I was looking at this site and it seemed pretty interesting:

http://www.musclenet.com/getbulky/Info/WeightLoss/KetogenicDieting.htm

Best area to start is in bodybuilding.com
then go to the forum section
then go to the nutrition section and under the nutrition section they have a section called keto.

From there read the guidelines behind a ckd diet.

To be honest, there's no point. In your first week of 'bulking', you will gain back that water weight and start looking a little softer again due to excess calorie intake. Ketogenic diets are for specific short term goals, with limited results.

I don't mean to sound condescending, but if you knew how to eat properly, you wouldn't be here asking for advice. Pick up John Berardi's recent book. It should help you construct a good eating plan.

Ketogenic diets are not necessarily for short term goals. I have been on a ketogenic diet for over 4 months. Please do your research before coming to the conclusion that all you can gain is limited results.

Definetely bulk. Now I see you're nervous about gaining more fat, so just take it slow. Hit the weights while listening to your body and watching any bad, processed foods.