By my post count, you can tell I'm not a regular here, though I have lurked for several years now and still find this a source of useful information. I know that many on this forum subscribe to a very specific and meticulously tracked eating regimen in order to shed pounds. I don't really mean to challenge the accepted mantra, but would like someone's thoughts on why it seems that an "unhealthy" Japanese diet (just as one example) seems to be as effective or more (in my experience) at shedding body fat.

In the past, I've "cut" on a similar diet as that posted often here (PB, egg whites, chicken, salmon, greens, etc. exclusively) and I must say that, though effective when combined with an exercise regimen, the homogeneity makes me feel "weird" after some time and accomplishes nothing when not paired with regular exercise.

If you don't know already, the traditional Japanese diet includes a large amount of seafood, rice, tofu, and various noodles. The Japanese life expectancy is among the best (the best?) and they have an inconceivable number of underweight females relative to their GDP. At the same time, they do not seem to engage in scheduled exercise, instead relying on public transportation and the walking associated with it to burn off excess calories.

When I visited Thailand and Japan for 1 month recently, I dropped from 183 to 165ish at 6'1" tall. I did large amounts of walking w/o resistance training, attempted to eat until 90% full, and never felt hungry (though the culture shock, excitement of travel probably helped with that). Since returning, I've tried to eat a little "more Japanese" and only to 80% fullness, and have since dropped to lower 160s with 31" waist and 39" chest (not the best here by far, but not slouchy either). I still do not count calories or find enough time to work out consistently.

I've been back for 3 months and have maintained a leaner figure than when I worked out much, much more often and ate "clean." In my experience, opting for rice, salad, seafood, and soups, while attempting to limit meat portions to side dishes, is easy and satisfying. When I ate things like PB regularly, I found myself constantly thinking about cheating on almonds, bananas, and the like. I never, ever think about eating extra fish or rice at unscheduled meal times, heh.

Anyway, the Japanese diet is well known and studied and so on. I'm sure there are other posts discussing similar observations here, but I did not find someone specifically comparing their attempts to stay lean on Western vs. Eastern diets. Anyone else have similar experience traveling through Asia? I know for a fact that many Asians have the exactly opposite experience when traveling to the US, but that is easily explained away by trips to McDonalds, Starbucks, etc.

Why do you say the Japanese diet is unhealthy?

If you truly observe how they eat (at least older generations), you'll see smaller portions, seafood, not lots of fried foods... sure, there's rice, noodles, but they don't eat massive platefulls like Americans tend to.

Just sounds like you've found a macro ratio that works for you.

I lived in Korea for 10 years of my life. I am Korean. I eat Korean foods. I can tell you that typical Korean foods are a lot healthier than typical foods Americans eat. For example, there is no "dessert" in Korea. If there is something you eat after a meal, which almost never happens, it's usually some fruit. I know that when my cousins come here to attend college for a year or two, they quickly gain some weight. I also know that when they go back to Korea after studying, they lose the weight they gained. But then again, I'm not sure if the trend in Korea and Japan are same or not but Korean people who live in Korea are generally obsessed with dieting and being skinny.

know that many on this forum subscribe to a very specific and meticulously tracked eating regimen in order to shed pounds. I don't really mean to challenge the accepted mantra, but would like someone's thoughts on why it seems that an "unhealthy" Japanese diet (just as one example) seems to be as effective or more (in my experience) at shedding body fat.


There is more than one body type, and therefore, more that one optimal nutrition plan. Generally, these body types share similarities within racial populations. Perhaps the Japanese diet would not be quite so good for Saxons.

Portions.

This is entirely my opinion.

I've been back for 3 months and have maintained a leaner figure than when I worked out much, much more often and ate "clean." In my experience, opting for rice, salad, seafood, and soups, while attempting to limit meat portions to side dishes, is easy and satisfying. When I ate things like PB regularly, I found myself constantly thinking about cheating on almonds, bananas, and the like. I never, ever think about eating extra fish or rice at unscheduled meal times, heh.

I did not find someone specifically comparing their attempts to stay lean on Western vs. Eastern diets. Anyone else have similar experience traveling through Asia?
It's at least partly because several members here have a greater goal of preserving muscle mass and in improving appearance than on improving health. I don't think most people would recommend large quantities of high glycemic index carbs and tiny quantities of protein as the most effective way to maximize fat loss and minimize muscle atrophy while losing weight.

I lived in China for almost three years, and I ate very little meat the whole time, and lots of rice and noodles. I lost about 15 pounds. I'd never looked and felt better in my life, until I started adding cardiovascular exercise and strength training to my routine.

The neighbour across the hall from us in China was Korean. Once when I went to visit her, she had about 30 tomatoes balanced along the window sill, and a huge pile of green vegetables on the counter. I said "Wow, what are you making?" She looked at me like I was stupid and explained "They're just for eating throughout the week." I buy more foods similar to that myself now, and I get really weird looks in the grocery store.:p

I take elements of the "higher protein" diets commonly recommended on these forums and mix them with the "Eastern style" way of eating that worked well for me, and I get a nice balance. I hardly eat any white rice or noodles anymore, but I do eat plenty of whole wheat bread and fruits. I eat very little red meat, but I try to eat more fish and lean poultry than I used to. If I try to follow a typical 40/40/20 diet, I get insane cravings for cake and chocolate, so I find, for myself, it's better to balance out the carbs I crave with extra fruits and whole grains.

I think the take-home message is "eat well, move more" ... granted, walking is FANTASTIC for burning calories and helping shed fat pounds ... many people here want the cosmetic changes associated with gaining lean muscle mass as well, hence the weight training and higher protein.

I'm certainly a fan of finding what works ... if you read my journal for the Body-for-LIFE 2003 competition (http://www.goldensummitinc.com/nucleus/index.php?catid=10&blogid=1) you'll find I was far from status quo. I averaged 300 grams of carbs, a tiny 90 grams of protein, ate a lot of noodles, carbs, drank red wine and indulged in dark chocolate but ended up shedding over 30 pounds in 12 weeks and liking the "after photos" ...

There are ultimately going to be many factors that influence what people do, such as ...

1. Marketing - let's face it, it's effective. Marketing has many people believing they must drink milk or their bones will break, that whey is the best protein in the world, and that you really can pop a pill and suddenly shed weight or cure erectile dysfunction

2. Materialism - like it or not, the media shapes the general percetion of what people strive for. As a result, people mistakenly assume that lean and muscular automatically means healthier and strive for this

3. Trends - we all know this one. "Don't eat fat, it's bad." "Oh, weight, let's eat fat and protein, don't eat carbs, they're bad" and so on ...

4. Cost vs. Value perception - the average person will buy white bread because its cheaper than whole grain, and will get a one-a-day vitamin that costs $5 instead of a quality one simply because Western society has a strong emphasis on cost over value ... in other words, people rarely compare apples to apples and instead want what is the cheapest, rather than what provides the most value. So the perception is "it costs less to buy junk food" because that is the immediate result of visiting the grocery store, rather than recognizing that in the long run, eating healthy actually saves wads of cash and provides far more value ... it's just the average American would rather fret over terrorism or be scared about violence rather than linking the 500,000 deaths per year to sedentary lifestyle and eating junk food

5. Simplicity - people love having it handed to them. Win the lottery and get rich, let the television tell me what to think/speak/wear and heaven forbid I take the time to figure out what works for my body, I'd rather ask someone who looks fit and have it spoon fed to me - give me the "system" or tell me the "one workout or diet that works" ... so there will always be a reliance on diet "systems" that seem to "work" rather than an approach of balance and variety and discovering what works well for you.

6. Instant Gratification - everyone seems to want to put a time limit on it. Instead of, "I know this new lifestyle is good for my health and a zillion other reasons, so I'm going to start living it" it's, "If I don't lose 5 pounds in two weeks then this program doesn't work and I'm going for the fat burning pill or some other program" ... another reason why so meany people who DO reach their goal lose it, because instead of really changing, they're just in the sprint to get there and then think they can magically go back to eating junk and not training consistently and somehow maintain it all

There are certainly more factors but these are a lot of what I've seen in my coaching ... fortunately John Stone Fitness is a unique breed of people who tend to move beyond the "average" and rise above a lot of the BS to get to what is going to work and be effective long term.

Thanks for your insights, we appreciate you!

Jeremy

Jeremy.........:bow: :bow: :bow: :tucool:

I would say that my plan for successful fat loss over time is a 3 pronged approach:

1. Eat clean
2. Exercise 6 times a week(weights + cardio)
3. Don't obsess about the fat %, have a life.

Jeremy.........:bow: :bow: :bow: :tucool:

I couldn't have said it better myself...so I won't...