Hi everyone. I've decided to bite the bullet and finally get into shape. After reading through all the guides and sites linked to on this forum (which were a huge help - thanks!!) I've put together a cutting plan which apparantly should suit me perfectly. I was just wondering if there was anything I should be doing diffrently before I put together the other 6 days' plans? I'm a 21 year old male, 6'2, 180lb/81kg, a little mesomorph but more ectomorph (broad shoulders, thin wrists&ankles). I was aiming for 2400 calories (which is what I need to sustain my weight if doing no exercise) over a 5:3:2 (C:P:F) split. I thought this was best since then the exercise I'm doing will create the calorie deficit giving a gradual weight loss with a low risk of yo-yoing. This is my plan for Monday and is actually 2298 calories over a 46:34:20 split so its not far off. (gives a little leeway for 100 cal carb cheat I guess). Oh yeah and where I've put water intake its a rough guide to how much I'll have before the next scheduled intake, not all in one go :)

06:45 - Wake up.

07:00 - 1 litre water, 1 cup green tea, Omelet or scrambled eggs (1 yoke + 2 whites), 1 tablespoon peanut butter

08:00 - Exercise (40mins cardio)

09:00 - 1 banana

11:00 - 750ml water, 280g whole-wheat spaghetti, 175g pasta sauce (estimate), 10 medium mushrooms, 20 almonds

13:30 - 750ml water, 4 slices whole-wheat bread, 4 slices turkey breast, 4 lettuce leaves, 4 slices red tomato, 1 apple

15:00 - 0.5 pint skimmed milk, 2 slices turkey breast

17:30 - Exercise (1 hour weights)

18:30 - 1 glass orange juice, 1 can tuna

19:00 - 750ml water, 240g salmon fillet, 90g broccoli, 46g carrots, 80g peas

10:00 - Sleep

If that is supposed to be a CUTTING diet, please go back and read/review lots of other threads here and the sticky posts.

Eating before morning cardio, pasta, bread, juice, milk, carrots, peas, the LACK OF PROTEIN, etc., are all things I would totally throw out the window and start over again.

Diet is everything in getting cut, and this is not going to do anything but perhaps make you lose all of the lean muscle you do have. Seriously, this needs major work.

~SC~

Thanks for having a look over my plan.

I know that you shouldn't really eat before cardio in the morning but since my gym doesnt open till late in the morning, if I take that advice and also take the advice of not eating for an hour after cardio then I'm not going to get to eat before lunchtime. I thought that the omlette which has such a low carb content wouldn't interfere with my body burning fats off anyway. Should I be a lot stricter on this issue?

I'm a little confused now because the information posted on this forum said to calculate how many calories and the micronutrient split and then base the diet on that. I've ran this through nutritiondata.com and it says its a 46:34:20 (carb:protein:fat) split. From a couple of the guides linked to on this forum it says you shouldn't really exceed 40% protein and if I remember correctly there was a formula which I used to calculate a personal maximum of 35%. What percentage protein would you suggest?

I'm finding the planning stage of this quite hard going and very time consuming but I'm determined to get this right and get in shape. I am concerned though that eating such a peculiar diet might impact on my work. I'm in my last year at uni at the moment and I know what a diffrence small changes to your diet can make on the ability to concentrate, etc. Has anyone experienced any problems like this when on a high protein diet?

I'm a little confused now because the information posted on this forum said to calculate how many calories and the micronutrient split and then base the diet on that. I've ran this through nutritiondata.com and it says its a 46:34:20 (carb:protein:fat) split. From a couple of the guides linked to on this forum it says you shouldn't really exceed 40% protein and if I remember correctly there was a formula which I used to calculate a personal maximum of 35%. What percentage protein would you suggest?

I don't quite have the credentials of SwoleCat, but I think your diet is good!:nod:

I think it's not quite complete to say that you should base your daily meal plan around a certain macronutrient ratio. Different times a day require different concentrations of carbohydrates, proteins, and fats, but it looks to me like you've accomodated for this. (eg. protein and simple carbs PWO, avoid eating non-vegetable carbs for a few hours before bed)

A lot of the posters here would recommend that you take your protein intake to at least 40% or more of your calories. I disagree with this advice for myself because it's easier for me to construct a diet richer in complex carbohydrates, vitamins, mineral, phytonutrients, and fibre without such a large protein intake. I've never tried high protein for more than a day at a time, but I get really crabby and get insane cravings if my carbohydrates don't make up at least 50% of my calories.

Hopefully 1FastGTX will pop by with some suggestions. He's always been really helpful with tweaking meal plans.

:gl:

I know that in some places, and at some times of year this is just impractical, but if you want to do fasted AM cardio, you could do it without your gym. For example, you could go running or cycling (if you have a bicycle) outside, or if you have access to a room with a high enough ceiling you could jump rope. If you're in a place where running or cycling is impossible because of snow, you could do cross country skiing (expensive equipment, though, but maybe check out craigslist) or snowshoeing (I don't really know anything about this).

I am too new at this stuff myself to offer anything really helpful on the diet - sorry. Good luck!

If that is what you have researched and found through readings, then apply it and carry it out for a few months. Through trial and error you can see what will work for you. I'm just offering my insight as one who competes/models/and assists 100's in accomplishing what you are after, so I was just being honest in critique.

Only trying it out will have you know "for sure" what happens. I was simply sharing what I can already see as far as the future, being that this is my area of expertise.

~SC~

Well, I sure wouldn't use those macros, so my opinions might not be worth much. Sure, many people are successful with 50% carbs, I'm just not one of them. :)

If doing 5:3:2, that's fine, I would just make that:

50% Protein
30% Carbs
20% Fat

:)

Actually, I'd just let carbs and fat fall somewhere between 20 and 30 each. I'd done well with a big more fat than that.

My opinions...

06:45 - Wake up.

07:00 - 1 litre water, 1 cup green tea, Omelet or scrambled eggs (1 yoke + 2 whites), 1 tablespoon peanut butter

08:00 - Exercise (40mins cardio)

09:00 - 1 banana

11:00 - 750ml water, 280g whole-wheat spaghetti, 175g pasta sauce (estimate), 10 medium mushrooms, 20 almonds

13:30 - 750ml water, 4 slices whole-wheat bread, 4 slices turkey breast, 4 lettuce leaves, 4 slices red tomato, 1 apple

15:00 - 0.5 pint skimmed milk, 2 slices turkey breast

17:30 - Exercise (1 hour weights)

18:30 - 1 glass orange juice, 1 can tuna

19:00 - 750ml water, 240g salmon fillet, 90g broccoli, 46g carrots, 80g peas

10:00 - Sleep
7: Add at least 4 more egg whites.

8: Low-intensity or High-intensity cardio?

9: 1 banana is not a sufficient meal IMHO. Add protein.

11: Hrm, well I wouldn't eat pasta every day, but some people do fine with it. I'd rather you have a sweet potato, but experiment and see for yourself. Regardless, I'd throw 6-8oz. chicken breast in there! :)

13:30: Eh, this is OK, but same opinions on pasta apply for bread. You'll probably be fine. If you want to get more strict I'd totally pull the bread out and replace with almonds or peanut butter. Also, what kind of turkey is it? Deli meat?

15: I'd pull the milk out and replace with almonds or some kind of fatty food. Again, deli turkey?

18:30: Remove O.J. I'd go with tuna and oatmeal or brown rice.

19:00: Pretty good. I'd use carrots sparingly, but they're ok once in a while. I would probably throw a few almonds or peanut butter in here too.

The carrots at night don't bother me so much, unless there is something nasty about carrots I don't know about(super high GI or something), but the peas are way starchy and more carb dense.

Lose the orange juice, eat an orange.

Lose the orange juice, eat an orange.
I thought high GI was good PWO. :confused:

I thought high GI was good PWO. :confused:
Not from fruit.

Not from fruit.

I don't really understand. What is the difference between dextrose and say a banana for example?

I don't really understand. What is the difference between dextrose and say a banana for example?
I wouldn't use either. But that's a different story. :)

From my reading:

dextrose = muscle
fruit = liver

Most who go this route (at least from what I've read) advise replenishment of muscle glycogen post-workout (via dextrose), not liver glycogen (via fruit).

Though I have read in a couple places that both liver and muscle glycogen should be replenished.

I don't really understand. What is the difference between dextrose and say a banana for example?

I researched it (http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1308794&pageNo=0). :read:

fruit has a lot of fructose needing to be converted in the liver first prior to being used to refill glycogen

Lose the orange juice, eat an orange.

I thought high GI was good PWO. :confused:

Not from fruit.
I'm a bit confused. He said to go from OJ to an actual orange. How is OJ high GI and an orange is not? Google search puts them both around 45 (OJ a bit higher, orange a bit lower) which I thought was not considered high GI. And in either case, going from one to the other wouldn't eliminate the proposed downside to fruit PWO.

I'm not going to enter the discussion on this subject because I am not knowledgeable enough on it, I will just note I've used fruit as part of my PWO meal numerous times in the past and found no better or worse results than when I did not use any. That said, it was never the sole source of carbs in that meal so I would hardly say that's conclusive evidence for its effectiveness.

-------------------------------

As for the original post -- I like what 1FastGTX suggested, as usual. Personally though, I'd lose the banana (and all carbs) after the cardio, especially if it's lower intensity. However, this becomes less important if your only goal is to pack on mass, but it doesn't seem like yours is. I'm also not opposed to pasta, but can certainly see why many would not recommend it daily -- and I wouldn't either. As for the bread, I always eat 2 slices daily, often more and it doesn't hurt me, but everyone's different. You need to experiment a bit and see what works.

I'll not go into all the tweaking of the diet, but will ask about your goals and training history.

At 6'2", 180 lbs, you aren't overweight. You might be carrying some extra fat here and there, but you aren't overweight IMO. If I were relatively untrained and could expect those newbie muscle gains to help me out for a few months, I wouldn't really go below maintance on calories for awhile.

I'd concentrate on cleaning up my food choices, staying at near maintenance calories, and learning how to workout.

I suspect you can make some good body compositional changes just by doing that. You might just put on some muscle, lose a bit of fat, and look better. After two or three months, then decide if you still want to cut.

So, I'd start in the 2500-3000 calorie range and give it some time.

Pictures might help if you're comfortable with that.

I don't really understand. What is the difference between dextrose and say a banana for example?

The types of sugars that they are and how the body processes them and what purpose they serve in the body. Totally diff....

~SC~

The types of sugars that they are and how the body processes them and what purpose they serve in the body. Totally diff....

~SC~

OK thanks for this information. However that leads me to another query is there any natural food alternative to dextrose as if possible i prefer to use natural sources? that is why i had, wrongly as it turned out, switched from dextrose to a banana for my PWO.

OK thanks for this information. However that leads me to another query is there any natural food alternative to dextrose as if possible i prefer to use natural sources? that is why i had, wrongly as it turned out, switched from dextrose to a banana for my PWO.

If you are looking for the highest GI from natural sources, I think honey would be a better choice than bananas.

EDIT: Ouch, I just found out the GI of honey is 55 whereas the GI for bananas is 51. None of them any close to dextrose. The Glycemic load of honey, however, is much higher than that of bananas, though.

EDIT: Ouch, I just found out the GI of honey is 55 whereas the GI for bananas is 51. None of them any close to dextrose. The Glycemic load of honey, however, is much higher than that of bananas, though.

Well, yeah :) I look at GL as more of a carb density, and without all the fiber and excess water in an actual fruit, it would have to be much higher GL.

Honey (http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts-C00001-01c21Ro.html) is like a lot of other fruits, split between glucose/sucrose and fructose in it's sugar makeup. Glucose/sucrose bring the insulin spike that many look for PWO. Fructose doesn't.

OK thanks for this information. However that leads me to another query is there any natural food alternative to dextrose as if possible i prefer to use natural sources? that is why i had, wrongly as it turned out, switched from dextrose to a banana for my PWO.
I like oatmeal. :) I also use rice, pasta, potatoes, beans, etc. Never dextrose.

Dextrose is far from necessary PWO. Is it the best source of carbs PWO? Perhaps. But not according to many professionals out there. I haven't used dextrose or whey protein in years and it has not negatively impacted me at all. However, let it be known I've never looked to put on 20-30 lbs. of muscle, but I have been able to put on the amounts I've wanted to.

Jeremy Likness has some posts with his PWO meal (or at least the one he used to use) in them that might offer you some insight if you can track them down in a search. It did not include any dextrose if I recall.

OK thanks for this information. However that leads me to another query is there any natural food alternative to dextrose as if possible i prefer to use natural sources? that is why i had, wrongly as it turned out, switched from dextrose to a banana for my PWO.
If you prefer natural sources then I would think dextrose would be fine.

I'm a bit confused. He said to go from OJ to an actual orange.


juices typically (just about always) have added ingredients, like sugar in them, that's why ;) natural is always better :nod:

Dextrose is natural, it's corn sugar, so...........:confused:

~SC~