Just curious here. I've been on my first real cut for a week and a half, eating clean and exercising every day. The first few days, I was extremely hungry inbetween meals. My hunger has since subsided, however I do feel bloated most of the day. Energy levels have dropped somewhat. Weight scale isn't budging much (lost a pound, but now back to my original start weight). I have not been cheating. Is this normal on a cut?

Could the 'gain' in weight be due to water retention, or perhaps newbie muscle gains? More importantly, how long do I wait before I say "this isn't working" and adjust my caloric intake?


Quick stats:
5'10"
Male
219 lbs
2400 daily caloric intake, link to schedule/meal plan below

http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?t=31773

For me? At least 2 weeks.

I use the 2 weeks rule as well to decide if I need to adjust my plan.
However I'll wait a bit longer if you are just starting to eat clean.
If this is a totally new thing it may take a bit longer for your body to start adjusting.

I also strongly recommend that you measure yourself with a measuring
tape. You may be able to pickup trends that the scale won't show
in that manner.

Good Luck.

Shahar.

muscle does weigh more than fat.. so if ur jst starting to workout and use protien poweder u may be adding musce gains that make up for fat loss on the scale... but overall lean mass will increase and fatzz5 will drop and u;ll look better and be heathier

When do you do your cardio? What type, what time, what days, how long per session, etc.

I'd recommend 45 mins. daily first thing a.m. at 65-75% of your MHR.

After 2 weeks, even if your diet is off a bit, you should definitely see results!

~SC~

When do you do your cardio? What type, what time, what days, how long per session, etc.

I'd recommend 45 mins. daily first thing a.m. at 65-75% of your MHR.

After 2 weeks, even if your diet is off a bit, you should definitely see results!

~SC~

Fasted, A.M. right when I wake up Sunday/Tuesday/Thursday/Saturday I do 45 mins on my stationary bike. Heart rate @ 135-145 bpm.


Today I did 40 minutes at 140bpm and 5 minutes of intervals at 160-180bpm.

Monday/Wednesday/Friday I wake up, have breakfast first, wait a couple hours and then lift. Haven't been doing cardio on lifting days.

I'd up the cardio to daily, and move the weight training (when done) at after mid-day. That should help more w/fat loss of course, but changes to your actual dietary approach may be what is really needed.

~SC~

I think I'm going to give it another week and a half. After 3 total weeks, if it doesn't look like much progress has been made, I'll change things around. I just don't want to jump the gun.

But I definately feel better now that I'm exercising. I can see some muscle definition peaking through even under all that flab. More veins are popping out in my hand/wrist/forearm area. I think I am losing fat, but so far not a big difference in weight. Which is probably good. Muscle is good. Muscle is very good. Hope that's what this is all about anyways.

Black-Dawn, you're right about the measuring tape. I should be keeping track of those stats for sure. So I'll make sure to do that first thing in the morning and compare it to my future self in a couple of weeks.

Something is off :confused: I wouldn't even bother waiting another week and a half. Pick something to change, go into ludicrous nerd level tracking, and hopefully you'll pick out the flaw on the first go. You should see some kind of movement week to week. If you're static for consecutive weeks, something isn't functional in your plan.

6 to 7 days cardio sounds good. You'll flush out the problem quick. If after 7 days straight of cardio:

1.) NO CHANGE = CALORIES WAY TOO HIGH
2.) SLIGHT CHANGE = CALORIES A LITTLE TOO HIGH
3.) LOTSA CHANGE = COOL, but sorry - you just discovered that you're a seven day cardio person:p

Once you figure out that, you can 'slip and slide' the cardio against the kcal's. Then onto macronutrients, lifting plans, etc etc - IT NEVVER ENDS!:gl:

Something is off :confused: I wouldn't even bother waiting another week and a half. Pick something to change, go into ludicrous nerd level tracking, and hopefully you'll pick out the flaw on the first go. You should see some kind of movement week to week. If you're static for consecutive weeks, something isn't functional in your plan.

6 to 7 days cardio sounds good. You'll flush out the problem quick. If after 7 days straight of cardio:

1.) NO CHANGE = CALORIES WAY TOO HIGH
2.) SLIGHT CHANGE = CALORIES A LITTLE TOO HIGH
3.) LOTSA CHANGE = COOL, but sorry - you just discovered that you're a seven day cardio person:p

Once you figure out that, you can 'slip and slide' the cardio against the kcal's. Then onto macronutrients, lifting plans, etc etc - IT NEVVER ENDS!:gl:



Hmm, so how do I know how much change is slight or a lot? I'm having that problem right now, because I have a feeling I'm losing fat, but retaining the weight elsewhere, muscle gain or water. I'm hoping if I wait a little bit, I'll see those stats come to life. If I do up the cardio, and I see the results, I'll assume its from that, but maybe in reality my original plan was working already but just at a slower rate?

Sigh. I dunno. Maybe I'll wait until Monday. The scale is depressing me.


(btw, your chest piece is awesome and I've wanted something similar for years now)

How do you measure your food intake?

Just by "portions" or by an actual food scale?

When I just started lifting my Weight loss rate
seriously slowed down. My abdominal girth , however, started
shrinking rapidly.

Shahar.

How do you measure your food intake?

Just by "portions" or by an actual food scale?

When I just started lifting my Weight loss rate
seriously slowed down. My abdominal girth , however, started
shrinking rapidly.

Shahar.



I use a digital weight scale to measure portions of things like meats and yams. I dry measure rice in a measuring cup, then I remeasure it via weight scale after being cooked and split it up equally. Anything else that I can measure with the measuring cup is measured and eaten out of the measuring cup :P

One problem I have with some of the calorie guides with some of the things, like rice for example, is that it doesn't tell me if the calories being counted are dry weight or cooked weight. I assume its dry.

Also with chicken, I noticed the portions shrink significantly after being grilled on my George Foreman. Like a 170 gram piece of fresh chicken breast becomes 110 grams cooked. I use the calories based on 170 gram piece of chicken, uncooked.



I'll have to keep tabs on the measuring tape and see whats going on. My body tells me different than what the scale is saying. I feel fitter and slimmer :P

Hmm, so how do I know how much change is slight or a lot? I'm having that problem right now, because I have a feeling I'm losing fat, but retaining the weight elsewhere, muscle gain or water. I'm hoping if I wait a little bit, I'll see those stats come to life. If I do up the cardio, and I see the results, I'll assume its from that, but maybe in reality my original plan was working already but just at a slower rate?

Sigh. I dunno. Maybe I'll wait until Monday. The scale is depressing me.


(btw, your chest piece is awesome and I've wanted something similar for years now)

Good news: sounds like you're on it. Weigh the food, eat healthy, know the heartrate, have a plan etc etc.

Bad news: That means you just have to do more of something. Cut calories, or more work. More work is preferable since you've got it to give (IE you're not maxed out on cardio days yet).

So how much change is slight? That part is variable. Trial and error. Whatever that factor is, it's more than the result you're getting now. It's up to you I guess. I just made a factor up when I was doing a normal fat cut. Mine was 1/2 percent BF reduction a week. That's kind of a stupid one, but it kept me on a pace and it directed my adjustments etc. If i got a 1/2 percent reduction in a weeks results - didn't change a thing. If I didn't get the reduction - I turned something up. And when everything is maxed out - then carb cycle, refeeds, macro adjustments. If progress went the wrong way - go back to the previous week's change and reverse it times 2 (x2). As you can see, pen to paper is my secret weapon. You've got the hard part down - this adjustment stuff is easy if you're cool with floating point variables.
:gl:

I wonder how it would be for fat loss if someone does:

1. fasted cardio 7x daily, 45 mins, 65-75% MHR.

AND

2. cardio at night, 7x daily, 45 mins, 65-75% MRH. Followed by a P/F meal. Then bed.

?

Maybe I should make a separate thread on this but the OP asked how to basically adjust things, so I figured I'd ask how it is to do more cardio instead of cutting more calories (if am cardio is not enough).

I wonder how it would be for fat loss if someone does:

1. fasted cardio 7x daily, 45 mins, 65-75% MHR.

AND

2. cardio at night, 7x daily, 45 mins, 65-75% MRH. Followed by a P/F meal. Then bed.

?

Maybe I should make a separate thread on this but the OP asked how to basically adjust things, so I figured I'd ask how it is to do more cardio instead of cutting more calories (if am cardio is not enough).

Wow, that's a shit ton of Cardio. That's like pre figure competition level (from what I've read/seen). It's all a balancing act. Floating point variables. I'd say, at consumer level fitness, if someone needs to resort to that much cardio - chances are that they're eating more than they need to for a cutting goal. Or, if you just need to eat that much to stay sane, then yeah you gotta bust the cardio to balance it out. :tucool:

I would say relax a bit. Drop down to about 2200 kcal, and make sure you are accurate. A lot of times its easy to forget that tbsp of olive oil you used in cooking, or snacks at the office etc. Since you are a relatively high BF, Keep 5 days of cardio (fasted) on your schedule.

Remember-nutrition and fitness are scientific, treat them as such.

When do you do your cardio? What type, what time, what days, how long per session, etc.

I'd recommend 45 mins. daily first thing a.m. at 65-75% of your MHR.

After 2 weeks, even if your diet is off a bit, you should definitely see results!

~SC~

SC, i noticed you suggest 45min of fasted cardio everyday and i just looked at John's logs and you had him doing the samething on SGX.

Do you have any progressions at all with your cardio?

I just started fasted cardio myself and for the first week i'm just doing 1mile which usually takes 20min, next week i'm going to 1.5mile and so on.

What do you mean by "do I have progresssions"??

Thanks,
~SC~

Wow, that's a shit ton of Cardio.

I currently do 40 minutes twice a day on non-training days, and 45 a.m. on training days. (sometimes I'll even do 30 after my weight training as well if I feel up to it) I know what I can get away with though as far as lots of cardio and what I can/cannot eat, and doing a lot of cardio allows me to "eat up" to my weight and remain full and ripped to all hell. :tucool:

~SC~

What do you mean by "do I have progresssions"??

Thanks,
~SC~

Just like weight training progressions. More work, more work in less time, higher intensity etc

Doing the same amount of work at the same intensity everyday, the body is bound to adapt.

Good news: sounds like you're on it. Weigh the food, eat healthy, know the heartrate, have a plan etc etc.

Bad news: That means you just have to do more of something. Cut calories, or more work. More work is preferable since you've got it to give (IE you're not maxed out on cardio days yet).

So how much change is slight? That part is variable. Trial and error. Whatever that factor is, it's more than the result you're getting now. It's up to you I guess. I just made a factor up when I was doing a normal fat cut. Mine was 1/2 percent BF reduction a week. That's kind of a stupid one, but it kept me on a pace and it directed my adjustments etc. If i got a 1/2 percent reduction in a weeks results - didn't change a thing. If I didn't get the reduction - I turned something up. And when everything is maxed out - then carb cycle, refeeds, macro adjustments. If progress went the wrong way - go back to the previous week's change and reverse it times 2 (x2). As you can see, pen to paper is my secret weapon. You've got the hard part down - this adjustment stuff is easy if you're cool with floating point variables.
:gl:


Thanks 1esotericguy. Your logic about flushing out the problem makes sense. I have an inkling I know what the problem is now, however. I screwed up counting calories from the frozen mixed vegetables I've been having with most of my meals.. I just 'assumed' (yeah, I'm an ass alright) that 1 cup of fresh broccoli = 1 cup of frozen vegetable mix.. I was wrong by about 250 calories just on the veggies.. and just more little things like that. I think I was wrong by about 300-350 total - daily. So I'm going to fix all that up, and then do 7 days of cardio just for the hell of it. At least this was a clean week and a half maintenance/bulk :lol:

Like you said, all the hard work is done. Getting started seemed like it took me forever to get motivated enough to do it. Tweaking things now is such a breeze. I love working out. I find myself wanting to do cardio on lifting days, and personally I enjoy it. Crank the tunes and sweat away. So here's to 3 more days of it! :cool:

I currently do 40 minutes twice a day on non-training days, and 45 a.m. on training days. (sometimes I'll even do 30 after my weight training as well if I feel up to it) I know what I can get away with though as far as lots of cardio and what I can/cannot eat, and doing a lot of cardio allows me to "eat up" to my weight and remain full and ripped to all hell. :tucool:

~SC~

Hey SC. I'm thinking about following the advice on upping cardio to daily A.M. since I love doing cardio anyways. On lifting days, how long should I wait? Here's what I'm thinking. If I do cardio in the morning from 8 to 8:45, eat a solid breakfast around 9, eat another meal at 12, another at 3, then lift weights from 5 to 5:45 and drink a postworkout shake.

Is that enough time inbetween cardio and lifting? Roughly 8 hours of rest and food before weights. Too much/too little time?

That is more than enough time in between activities, yes.

~SC~

Thanks for the help man!

Is there anything special about doing cardio for 45 mins? That is what everyone seems to do. Is doing an hour too much, or 30 mins too little? Is 45 mins the magic number for fat loss?

you gotta measure, waist, chest, everything. I stayed at 180 for about 4 weeks but i lost inches on my waist and gained on my arms, after about the 5th week is when the scale started changing, i'm now at 172 with a 34 inch waist and before I was 180 with a 38 inch waist. The scale didn't change much though, in my opinion don't go by the scale, go by what you see and feel.