Article I came across this morning, thought both the men and women here would find it interesting.

Intro From the article~

Men are barraged with images of extraordinarily beautiful and unobtainable women in the media, making it difficult for them to desire the ordinarily beautiful.

Poets rave about beauty. Brave men have started wars over beauty. Women the world over strive for it scholars devote their lives to deconstructing our impulse to obtain it. Ordinary mortals erect temples to beauty. In just about every way imaginable, the world honors physical beauty. But I hate beauty.


http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/index.php?term=pto-20010701-000023&print=1

Men are barraged with images of extraordinarily beautiful and unobtainable women in the media, making it difficult for them to desire the ordinarily beautiful.

So true. :nod: Unfortunate really - there are so many beautiful people in the world that don't have the luxury of top stylists and Photoshop.

I have to disagree with that first line, for me anyways. I'm much more attracted to the "average" looking girls, when I see a girl with so much makeup or all dolled up (like they do in magazines or on TV), they tend to look like artificial beings and that grosses me out.. staring at them is one thing but I couldn't imagine dating/being with one.

I suppose I have different tastes than other men in general.

I keep reading stuff like this.
It makes me feel pretty happy that I'm living in the real world.:nod:

I keep reading stuff like this.
It makes me feel pretty happy that I'm living in the real world.:nod:
For the most part, I agree.
Beauty is very important to me, and I don't have very much trouble finding it all around me.

I'd like to share some of my favorite quotes on the subject:

I am sure that nothing has such a decisive influence upon a man's course as his personal appearance, and not so much his appearance as his belief in its attractiveness or unattractiveness. ~Leo Tolstoy

There is certainly no absolute standard of beauty. That precisely is what makes its pursuit so interesting.
- John Kenneth Galbraith

It must be hard to be a model, because you'd want to be like the photograph of you, and you can't ever look that way. ~Andy Warhol

"Every one of us has something we consider to be not okay or to be a deformity. We can consider ourselves deformed or we can see ourselves as special. And that choice will determine how we live our lives." --Carol Price

You don't love a woman because she is beautiful, she is beautiful because you love her. ~Author Unknown

Compliments invite the person who is complimented to embrace a new perception of him or herself. And just as layers and layers of nacre form a pearl over an irritating grain of sand, so compliments collect around us, developing us in all our beauty. - Daphne Rose Kingma

"I think every young actress comes to a point in their life where you decide whether to subscribe to some sort of social standard of what you're supposed to look like. Aesthetics and artificiality make up such a huge part of the industry, so you can either go for that or choose to look the way you do. The body image stuff just obliterates women's self-esteem. I'm never going to be the thinnest girl in Hollywood, or the smartest, or the funniest, or the richest. I finally came to peace with that. You have to let go of that garbage if you're going to get anywhere.
It's so cool when I meet other actresses and know they don't give a rat's ass, either. That's why they'll be successful. You'll never be good if you're caught up in that."--Reese Witherspoon

Liv Tyler was particularly grateful when the 15-month long Lord Of The Rings shoot wrapped - because she could get her curves back. The 5'10" actress had to keep her weight down to a medically unsafe 126 pounds while playing Arwen in the trio of fantasy films, but started piling on the pounds as soon as the New Zealand shoot finished - pumping up her weight by 28 pounds. She says, "Now I'm fat but happy. I was sick and tired of starving myself to look thin. It was no fun. I feel more comfortable at this weight - and I'm enjoying my food. I don't care what people think. There shouldn't be a standard for how we all should look."

"In a way it's selfish, but it would be the worst thing I could do for my career. If I take my clothes off for a magazine, it's like saying, 'Oh well, if I can't act at least I can look good on the cover.' And I don't want to be that person." --Estella Warren- about choosing not to do modeling assignments such as a "provocative" cover for Maxim magazine to promote Planet of the Apes

Oscar-winning actress Marcia Gay Harden was warned she'd never be a success in Hollywood if she didn't alter the shape of her nose. The Pollock star was given the advice by a producer - who even recommended a surgeon to do the job. Harden, 42, says, "He said, 'Unless you get it fixed, you will never work as an actress. He handed me a card that had a plastic surgeon's name on it." The budding young actress was devastated, but in the end, she simply refused to go under the knife. She explains, "I went home and cried for a couple of hours. Then I got so angry, I decided I was going to 'show him' by hanging in there and not giving up." The hard work paid off when Harden won the Best Supporting Actress award this year for her role in Pollock.

You can take no credit for beauty at sixteen. But if you are beautiful at sixty, it will be your soul's own doing. ~Marie Stopes

Everything has beauty, but not everyone sees it. ~Confucius

Beauty to me is confidence. When a woman walks into a room and has an air of confidence about her, it is attractive, as long as it is not arrogance.

After reading the article, one thing that struck me right at the beginning was how, for me, it's probably not just beauty portrayed in the media that might affect my conscious/subconscious preferences for women (I like to think that I'm a bit more discerning and able to see through glitz and glamour but I suspect that I'm still somewhat susceptable) but other aspects of my life as well.

The whole contrast/comparison principle in general probably causes a lot of people, both men and women, to unreasonably drive up expectations of day-to-day life: cars, houses, conveniences, luxuries and a biggie: entitlements/rights. I think it's this kind of commercial brainwash that's caused personal responsibility, or at least, thinking for oneself, to go down the proverbial toilet. I dunno, maybe I'm just thinking too much. :p

I see the articles point but I think it's starting to become this way for men too. I am very self concious because of the way women are towards us. I have met so many women over time and they all seem to be striving for one thing that "hot guy" maybe it's just where I live I don't know but it makes me feel like crap. I know there is way more pressure put on women to look good don't get me wrong but it seems it todays world it's catching up to men too. I may not be Orlando Bloom or Jhonny Depp or whatever star is envied by most women but I'm a nice, clean cut, respectfull, romantic guy with a lot to offer yet women seem to be instantly repusled by me because I don't look like the star on the OC. I know so many girls that are so great some are beautiful some average and some not so good looking but they still strive for that georgous man and all the douche bags they end up with treat them like crap and they continually complain about why they can't meet a nice guy :rolleyes: I'm just babbling on now but just thought I'd put that out there flame way :lol:

YOUTUBERS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXwarrIYLJ4) are beautiful.

Maybe things are changing.

I have to disagree with that first line, for me anyways. I'm much more attracted to the "average" looking girls, when I see a girl with so much makeup or all dolled up (like they do in magazines or on TV), they tend to look like artificial beings and that grosses me out.. staring at them is one thing but I couldn't imagine dating/being with one.

I suppose I have different tastes than other men in general.

I totally agree with your point here about the "average" looking girl. To me a beautiful woman is one who doesn't need make up and all that jazz to make me look twice. It's the ones which make me look twice and realize "ugh what's all that guk on your face?" that turn me off.

YOUTUBERS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXwarrIYLJ4) are beautiful.

Maybe things are changing.

Wow, best video on YouTube. :)

I like not living in New York now. (Not a total non sequitur...) I think, like the man who wrote the Psychology Today article about beauty, that people who live in L.A. and New York and work in glamour industries get a very distorted view of life. When I lived in New York, I didn't work in a glamour industry, but I saw a lot of people who did, and just too many people in general. People treated each other like crap so often I just got used to it. Now, working with people NOT in NYC, I've started to really enjoy people again, and I really think I see a lot of beauty in people every day.

I like that YouTube is a way for people from all over the world to connect in an unedited way. People who would never know each other any other way.

These are the 2 quotes I liked best from your list guava:

You can take no credit for beauty at sixteen. But if you are beautiful at sixty, it will be your soul's own doing. ~Marie Stopes

I see a lot of beautiful people over 60 in my work.

Everything has beauty, but not everyone sees it. ~Confucius

I actually tried to think of something this would not apply to, but in my experience, even in the wake of terrible things there is at least the beauty of people helping each other through devastation and sorrow.

I think true beauty come from within. Outward beauty fades like the dewy petals of a rose but oh gosh to love the skin you are in to appreciate the beauty in others, to give more than you take and to love someone with all heart and soul that is beauty to me. Outward appearances can be very misleading. To me the most beautiful woman for my generation was mother Theresa, what a truly beautiful person.
Don't get me wrong I believe in looking and being your best but if you only focus on the outside. You just have a empty sad shell. We don't get to choose, the shape of our eyes, or our height, or even if society at large accepts us as beautiful but we do get to make the choice to be loving, kind, understand and compassionate. I say true beauty is an inside job.

I am a man, so please excuse me for posting in the "female forum", but I have a few things to say:

I think that the women who complain about mens' distorted views of beauty are hypocritical. Men are no more distorted in their view of beauty than women are in their views of men. Women so often come off as "I have this huge cross to bear, being a woman, and having to live up the media, etc. etc.", yet you never once hear a man complain about having to live up to media images as well. There are just as many male sex symbols as there are women sex symbols, and we have to live up to that image just the same as you have to live up to yours.

Don't think for a second that men are overly-picky because of idealistic media images. Women are just as picky. As a man, I'm sick of the whole "feel bad for me, I'm a woman who doesn't look like Heidi Klum" campaign. If you think that the same thing doesn't exist on the other side, then you're crazy. It is JUST as hard for a man to be beautiful as it is for a woman. I think that this whole one-sided double standard is perfectly presented in Dove's whole campaign for "real beauty" which (as far as I know) is aimed specifically at women.

I think it's important that EVERYONE - both sexes - feel confident about themselves, no matter what. It's important to be who we are, and that we don't strive to be like other people. I really hope I don't sound confrontational, but as a male who is trying to get in shape, improve his social life and "attractiveness" just as much as everyone else here, don't think for a second that it is men only who are overly-judgmental. Your gender can be quite cruel at times, as well.

Men are no more distorted in their view of beauty than women are in their views of men.
Women are just as selective in their evaluation of the opposite sex, but they don't place as much weight on physical attractiveness as men do.

Men were found to emphasize physical attractiveness more than did women for dating, sexual intercourse, and a serious relationship. Lundy, 1998 (http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1475-6811.1998.tb00174.x)

Men place more emphasis on physical attractiveness in choosing partners for sex or marriage, and women place more emphasis on partners' socioeconomic status (SES) (Berscheid and Walster, 1974; Dion, 1981; Hatfield and Sprecher, 1986). (http://www.questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&se=gglsc&d=5000445235)

Men's SES and their willingness and ability to invest affection and resources in relationships may often outweigh the effects of their physical attractiveness in women's actual selection of partners. Townsend, 1990 (http://www.springerlink.com/content/w20g8836144m2781/)

Men value physical attractiveness more in their partner than do women. Women, on the other hand, attach more importance to the socio-economic status of their preferred partner than do men. Doosje, 1999 (http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2294/is_1_40/ai_54250818)

Twenty-eight categories were created to label the qualities designated as desirable in a partner. As predicted, physical attractiveness was the characteristic most frequently sought by males (56.9%). Significantly fewer females (26.4%) required this in a prospective partner. Furthermore, requests for a thin partner were made by significantly more males (33.6%) than females (2.2%). Smith, 2004 (http://www.springerlink.com/content/x08n7q5249845717/)

The largest differences are in the perceived desirability of thinness, strength, fearfulness, self-pity, fragility, aggressiveness, and beauty. Males perceived all these traits as more desirable (or less undesirable) than females, except that females valued strength more positively. Male respondents are less troubled by negative character traits of a potential partner, while females are less concerned with a partner's physical appearance. Todosijević, 2003 (http://human-nature.com/ep/articles/ep01116126.html)

As predicted, the findings confirmed the existence of commonly reported sex differences, in that our sample of Jordanian male college students showed greater interest in potential mates’ good looks and youth compared to female students, who displayed greater preference for mates exhibiting economic ability and commitment. Khallad, 2005 (http://spr.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/22/2/155)

Recent research seems to indicate that the physical-attractiveness stereotype — which holds that attractive individuals are more positively evaluated across a wide range of dimensions than unattractive individuals — is more potent when applied to women than to men. Bar-Tal, 1976 (http://www.springerlink.com/content/u31kx42472756022/)

exposure to highly stereotyped films can elicit stronger beauty-and-goodness stereotyping Smith, 1999 (http://www.leaonline.com/doi/abs/10.1207%2Fs15324834basp2101_7)
All of this information used to piss me off, because it seemed to me that women were getting the short end of the stick. You're either born physically attractive, or you're not, whereas socio-economic status is more changeable, so men have more power to change their desirability. But, knowing what I know now, I realize that a person can definitely enhance their attractiveness, not just with clothing, make-up, and accessories, not only by body composition changes, but by posture and other movements, facial expressions, and other behaviors.

I think Budoka about sums it up nicely.
Same deal, whether people or objects.

All of my insecurities and lack of confidence comes from women. Like I said before it works both ways. Statistically males are pigs but there are plenty of good men out there. Women are the same it's just a matter of finding them.

All of this information used to piss me off, because it seemed to me that women were getting the short end of the stick. You're either born physically attractive, or you're not, whereas socio-economic status is more changeable, so men have more power to change their desirability. But, knowing what I know now, I realize that a person can definitely enhance their attractiveness, not just with clothing, make-up, and accessories, not only by body composition changes, but by posture and other movements, facial expressions, and other behaviors.

I would question whether improving socio-economic status is really that much easier than improving attractiveness.