i went and got my bf tested yesterday (finally) and found i was at 12 percent....i was stoked in my head i was thinkng around 14 and that was being optimistic...so 12 is not bad......ive been cutting of course forever(by saying that ive never actually bulked)....but after speaking with the trainer at the gym who is freaking enourmous and actually lifts, looks good ,and competes..which it seems most trainers these days do not..)...we discussed our beliefs what we practice he wanted me to give his approach a shot...which im okay with ....but a bit timid at the same time......

he wants me to do 4 days of liss cardio 30 minutes or so...

he wants me to try and get around 250 grams of protien from mostly real food sources, and try to stay around 200-250 grams of carbs(whi is doable and lets me eat my beloved outs numerous times a day...but what really throws me off is his disregard for pwo nutrition

he says just have some protien and oats in the form of a shake afterward....then my last meal before bet should be protien fat....

weird to me i guess...ive been utilizing the whey plus dex shake ...then an equal amount an hour later.....so this is alot different for me....

he seems to think it will put on muscle...i guess we'll see(keep inmind im not paying for these services,,,i think this guy likes me and just wants to give advise..he commented how i was one of the smartest lifters in the gym...we frequent the type of place where dudes think there chests are the only muscle and bad form is the key to growth)

i was thinking of just skipping the shake all together getting home and eating a good meal with protien and oats instead of in a shake...but sometimes it takes me almost an hour to get back to my house and food on a plate....

any ideas...

im just doing some experiminting again...

That's not a different approach at all. :)

It's fine. Try it and see what happens.

he says just have some protien and oats in the form of a shake afterward....then my last meal before bet should be protien fat...

That's my thing.....works for me. :) Only one way to know if it'll work for you ;)

:eat: > Supplements

That's not a different approach at all. :)

It's fine. Try it and see what happens.

:nod: There are many ways to take in PWO nutrition. Some don't take in anything at all after their workouts. For about a year I used Dex, but eventually went to BCAA's followed by a solid meal (P/C) and I think it's great.

See what works for you. :tucool:

Actually thats what is my trainer saying as well (who also is a natural pro bodybuilder)
He tells me to just make sure I have a good meal after my workout (containing complex carbs)

Out of curiosity right now im trying Creatine Monohydrate/Glutamine/Dextrose mix. He said it should be ok and agreed that I can try it.
I mix it with some water just before a workout in a separate bottle and sip it during workout.
I will try it for a month along with a clean diet (of about 150-200 grams of carbs and at least 170 g of protein) and see how my results will be

yeah it seems to be okay...i ordered some bcaa;s to sip on during workout...then im going to have a solid meal afterward then just protien then protien and fat before bed...im eating alot of food during the day and lifting heavier...also gonna start the "waterbury method " on monday...im interested to see my progress with a different approach..

How about this; I sell supplements and I don't take jack squat after a workout!

Yes, I use my own products extensively but I also think PWO nutrition is an overhyped crock.

:tu:

I do pre- (10-15 minutes before) and post-workout (10-15 minutes after) protein shakes, and I have to say that since I started doing this, I've had the best results since I started exercising and eating clean(er).

The engineer in me likes the scientific approach, and science backs it up.

Performance Nutrition Show's (http://www.performancenutritionshow.com/index.php) Dr. Antonio is a supporter of this, as are the Docs and coaches at the National Strength and Conditioning Association (http://www.nsca-lift.org/).

I do pre- (10-15 minutes before) and post-workout (10-15 minutes after) protein shakes, and I have to say that since I started doing this, I've had the best results since I started exercising and eating clean(er).

The engineer in me likes the scientific approach, and science backs it up.

Performance Nutrition Show's (http://www.performancenutritionshow.com/index.php) Dr. Antonio is a supporter of this, as are the Docs and coaches at the National Strength and Conditioning Association (http://www.nsca-lift.org/).

So do you feel that the shakes made the difference or eating cleaner...or both?

Definitely eating clean is important, but I've been doing that for over a year. The nutrient timing of the pre and post shakes have made a huge difference in recovery, as well as increased energy levels during my workouts.

While I do go along with a semi-traditional PWO shake, I agree with Chris in that PWO nutrition is somewhat overhyped and overanalyzed.

IMO, it's a great example of people confusing what's "optimal" with what's "necessary." Fundamentally, the guy/girl that is consistent with their workouts, eats clean, eats the right amount (healthy ratios, no crazy caloric deficits or surpluses), and lifts with good technique and intensity will get the best results. That's all that matters. As long as you get protein and carbohydrates after you lift then you're fine. Anything beyond that is just optimization.

Currently I'm running through the rest of my Dextrose before I switch over to a combination of hydrolyzed whey (still using Nitrean during the rest of the day) and waxy maize starch PWO. I tried it for a brief while and really felt a difference. I want to see what measurable results I get over a longer period of time.