So i was told taking dextrose and/or maltodextrin with my mm pre and post workout would speed up the protein delivery, is that true? Why exactly do people add dextrose to there pwo shakes? Do you just use something like splenda?

So i was told taking dextrose with my mm pre and post workout would speed up the protein delivery, is that true? Why exactly do people add dextrose to there pwo shakes? Do you just use something like splenda?

If an insulin spike is your goal, Muscle milk is "likely" a poor PWO protein supplement because it has a high fat content which will delay gastric emptying. As a protein supp it's better used at any other time than PWO.

Whey is a better option. A quality concentrate, isolate, hydrolyzed blend is sufficient, but people have had success with pure isolates and pure hydrolyzed proteins (but they can be costly).

Do a thread search on dextrose, there's tons of info as to why some people believe dextrose is worthwhile. Mostly because it spikes your insulin and shuttles protein. Provided you are fairly glycogen depleted (you'll have to judge if your workout really accomplished that or not). Splenda would do nothing but make it taste sweet and add a few calories to the shake.

Do you have to use dex? No not necessarily. You can use other things like canned pineapples, Dates, Angel Food cake, white rice, white bread, white potatos etc..

hrmm, well i didnt quit a bit of searching, and it seems dex is used to spped the transportation of the protein to your muscles, which i can see as being benefiicial. So i bought some ON whey gold standard protein, and some dex. All the posts i read mentioned people using anything from 30g to 80 g. Im 5'7 185 ~18bf and cutting. How much dex should i use?

Yeah, you'd be better off drinking hemlock with dextrose...

;) Just Kidding...

Fat (and for that matter zero carbs too) is fine post-workout. It all depends on what you're trying to do.

just curious: How is PWO fat beneficial?

Fat (and for that matter zero carbs too) is fine post-workout. It all depends on what you're trying to do.

i thought fat was a no no pwo because it slows the benefits of using dextrose, whey?

Fat (and for that matter zero carbs too) is fine post-workout. It all depends on what you're trying to do.

Sorry, you're absolutely correct. I should have said....If an insulin spike is your goal, then...

:tu:

just curious: How is PWO fat beneficial?

i thought fat was a no no pwo because it slows the benefits of using dextrose, whey?
I said fat was fine post-workout, not that fat and dextrose were. :)

Sorry, you're absolutely correct. I should have said....If an insulin spike is your goal, then...

:tu:
:tucool:

I said fat was fine post-workout, not that fat and dextrose were. :)


:tucool:



But what does it do?

But what does it do?

Fats are important for keeping you anabolic, help moderate insulin response, etc.

But what does it do?
What does what do? Healthy fats?

Fats are important for keeping you anabolic, help moderate insulin response, etc.


And that is exactly what YOU DO NO WANT post workout.

On Whey gold and dextrose is fine PW, it is what I use.

Shoot for 60-100grams dextrose carbs (depending on your goal of losing fat or all out mass gain and how intense your workout was.) and 60 grams Protein.
Fat is an absolute No_no post workout.

BTW, since I am very insuline resistant, I eat almost zero carbs except for post workout shake and meal right after.
Otherwise it is purely protein and fat.

And that is exactly what YOU DO NO WANT post workout.

On Whey gold and dextrose is fine PW, it is what I use.

Shoot for 60-100grams dextrose carbs (depending on your goal of losing fat or all out mass gain and how intense your workout was.) and 60 grams Protein.
Fat is an absolute No_no post workout.

BTW, since I am very insuline resistant, I eat almost zero carbs except for post workout shake and meal right after.
Otherwise it is purely protein and fat.
So everyone must take in dextrose postworkout? Regardless of genetics, goals, what they did in the gym, what they're doing tomorrow, what they ate all day what they will eat the rest of the day, what they will eat tomorrow?

And that is exactly what YOU DO NO WANT post workout.

Bollocks. I've been around the block on this for a long while.

I've done both. I've been on the high simple-carbs PWO routine (and am just back on it). I also recently completed 5 months extreme low-carb (<30g daily) with weekend carb-ups. Note that was ZERO pwo carbs with HIGH fat/protein intake. In fact, M-F my intake was 60% healthy fats.

And you know what? I gained more lean mass over any other comparable period.

I believe in BOTH methods... depending very much on what my body was telling me at the time, etc.

What does what do? Healthy fats?

I guess I'm asking if there is any particular benefit from eating fats PWO, and if so, what are they?

Fast carbs + protein is better for recovery. But if you eat protein + fat it will help fatloss instead.

If you are training very hard and often I think p/f after training might result in overtraining. At least if we are talking about intense weight-training. You will not recover fast enough and your body will not be ready when you go to the gym next day.

But it depends on your training and on how close you are to overtraing. I might eat p/f after weight training if I was feeling really good , was cutting and wanted fastest possible fatloss. It really depends on how you feel and on how much your body can handle.

Of course fat from fish also help long term recovery. It will reduce inflamation in the muscles. But that is different compared to the short term recovery boost you get from a p/c meal after intense workout.

Bollocks. I've been around the block on this for a long while.

I've done both. I've been on the high simple-carbs PWO routine (and am just back on it). I also recently completed 5 months extreme low-carb (<30g daily) with weekend carb-ups. Note that was ZERO pwo carbs with HIGH fat/protein intake. In fact, M-F my intake was 60% healthy fats.

And you know what? I gained more lean mass over any other comparable period.

I believe in BOTH methods... depending very much on what my body was telling me at the time, etc.

And if you stuck to the high fat except post workout meal or 2 (anaerobic workout), then you may have even noticed it worked even better.
If you consume the proper amount of carbs piost workout, it will not hinder fat burning in any way as the carbs will go straight to muscle or to replenish liver glycogen (which is why lAtkins type diet stops working-liver needs carbs).

My only carbs now are PW meals w/ maybe 100 grams one other day during week.

Note, if you deplete carbs too much and do not carb up properly, you will need to add some T3 to bring your metabolism back up.
Take your temp 1st thing in AM. If it is 1 or 2 degrees below 98.6, you need to carb up or add T3 (active thyroid hormone).

You do know the main reason Pro Bodybuilders are bigger today then they were in Arnold's day (by a lot)?

They were all doing steroids back then too.

Ask any national level competitor (or Pro).

Insulin is the reason.

The idea of simple carbs is to naturally spike insulin post workout. (They also need it at other times as GH lowers insulin sensitivity a GREAt degree), but that is another story.
Insulin post workout is probably the biggest innovation in bodybuilding (at the competitive level)in the past 20 years (maybe followed by plasmsa expanders in blood instead of diruteics come stage time).
Hell, some guys even use small doses to put themselves into Ketogenesis (the principial behind the no carb 5 days, carb up for 2 days principal). That is playing a dangerous game tho as insulin use is no joke if you do not know what you are doing.

Yeah, I been around the block a few times too!

Fast carbs + protein is better for recovery. But if you eat protein + fat it will help fatloss instead.

If you are training very hard and often I think p/f after training might result in overtraining. At least if we are talking about intense weight-training. You will not recover fast enough and your body will not be ready when you go to the gym next day.

But it depends on your training and on how close you are to overtraing. I might eat p/f after weight training if I was feeling really good , was cutting and wanted fastest possible fatloss. It really depends on how you feel and on how much your body can handle.

Of course fat from fish also help long term recovery. It will reduce inflamation in the muscles. But that is different compared to the short term recovery boost you get from a p/c meal after intense workout.


I did Waterbury Summer Project staying below 100 g carbs on workout days, including fiber carbs. I recovered pretty well, but I was using BCAAs as well to help that along. I would have a small amount of carbs during workouts (maybe 15-20g), then follow up with a P+F meal. Near the end, I was starting to feel it a bit, but that was after 8 weeks of the hardest workouts I've done so I was due for a break anyway. I didn't feel beat up, just like I was ready for a slowdown for a bit.

I've also done it both ways. Right now, I'm doing 40 g dex/malto during, 40g after followed by some medium GI carbs (maybe 50 g) an hour later (fruits, sweet potatoes, beans, etc). Kind of a medium approach.

I think Mastover doesn't believe in the PWO carb up/insulin spike for him IIRC. He seems to do pretty well :D

You do know the main reason Pro Bodybuilders are bigger today then they were in Arnold's day (by a lot)?

They were all doing steroids back then too.


Well, anabolics are much better understood and dosed now, and the addition of things like HGH has a bit to do with it, too.

My only carbs now are PW meals w/ maybe 100 grams one other day during week.
That's fine, but not everyone follows the same type of dieting. This style has worked for me in the past too, but it isn't the only way by any means. :)

You do know the main reason Pro Bodybuilders are bigger today then they were in Arnold's day (by a lot)?

They were all doing steroids back then too.

Ask any national level competitor (or Pro).

Insulin is the reason.
Well I know a few national-level competitors that don't use simple carbs post-workout. :)

I don't think anyone here is saying that the simple-carb PWO thing, or that your style of dieting is "wrong" at all! As a matter of fact most people would agree that thousands and thousands of people do things just like you and have a lot of success. We're just saying it's not the only way of doing things.

And if you stuck to the high fat except post workout meal or 2 (anaerobic workout), then you may have even noticed it worked even better.
If you consume the proper amount of carbs piost workout, it will not hinder fat burning in any way as the carbs will go straight to muscle or to replenish liver glycogen (which is why lAtkins type diet stops working-liver needs carbs).

My only carbs now are PW meals w/ maybe 100 grams one other day during week.

Note, if you deplete carbs too much and do not carb up properly, you will need to add some T3 to bring your metabolism back up.
Take your temp 1st thing in AM. If it is 1 or 2 degrees below 98.6, you need to carb up or add T3 (active thyroid hormone).

You do know the main reason Pro Bodybuilders are bigger today then they were in Arnold's day (by a lot)?

They were all doing steroids back then too.

Ask any national level competitor (or Pro).

Insulin is the reason.

The idea of simple carbs is to naturally spike insulin post workout. (They also need it at other times as GH lowers insulin sensitivity a GREAt degree), but that is another story.
Insulin post workout is probably the biggest innovation in bodybuilding (at the competitive level)in the past 20 years (maybe followed by plasmsa expanders in blood instead of diruteics come stage time).
Hell, some guys even use small doses to put themselves into Ketogenesis (the principial behind the no carb 5 days, carb up for 2 days principal). That is playing a dangerous game tho as insulin use is no joke if you do not know what you are doing.

Yeah, I been around the block a few times too!

You're lecturing the wrong guy... Insulin PWO WAS the biggest thing but, as Jeff is pointing out. It's not the ONLY way nor necessarily OPTIMAL for all people. I fully understand the mechanics but it doesn't always work that way. It works for many, not all. Strict BCCA only supplementation, high fat PWO and many other techniques have been shown to be as effective depending on the type.

And I only address "natural types" as steroid usage creates an entirely different set of perimeters and I've not used roids, just know those who do. You can dredge up Lyle, Layne, Anssi and a host of others who all have clinical proof of very different techniques all working as well depending on body type, training etc.