Rather than re-type everything, I'm going to post a slightly modified version of today's (March 31, 2004) update, followed by today's daily pictures, and then [gulp] close-up pictures of my lower ab fat and loose skin.


March 31, 2004
After 15 months of eating clean and working out, I've still got a little fat just below my belly button. I've had this fat since I was a pre-teen and it's always been there no matter what I've done to get rid of it. I can't keep cutting because my body fat level is already at 8% and I just don't want to lose any more fat from any other area of my body. Even if I did continue to cut until I was at 6% body fat, chances are that little roll would still be there. I really hoped that after 15 months of clean eating and regular exercise that it would go away, but it's just not going anywhere. It really does bother me, and it's much more noticeable in real life than in my pictures. Lipo and/or plastic surgery is absolutely out of the question for me, so I see one last avenue to try in an attempt to get rid of this last bit of stubborn fat once and for all: supplements. I've never used ANY kind of fat burning supplements before, so this is my last-ditch effort to attempt to get rid of it. We all know cutting gels are worthless, but I've heard very good things about transdermal fat burners such as Ab-Solved (http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/al/ab.html).

I've been researching these types of products for a few weeks now and it does seem like they really work for people who are already at very low body fat levels, but have stubborn fat that just won't go away. These kinds of products are not going to help you if you are not eating right, working out and already pretty cut up. Since this is a last-ditch effort, I've also decided to try an Ephedra-free fat burner, Tight (http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/san/tight.html), which I'm told helps a great deal with the removal of stubborn fat.

I know this is quite a departure for me, but I've always been honest about my program and what I'm doing and this is no different. I don't know if any of this stuff will work, but you can bet that I'll be very detailed in charting my progress while I'm using these products. I'm going to start using both of these products tomorrow (NOTE: actually I'm going to start using them on Friday, April 2, 2004).

I'll update this thread at least weekly.

Just for reference, here is how I looked this morning in a fasted state. These are my normal daily pictures:

... and here is the problem area at its worst. These pictures are front, left-side and right-side close-ups of the stubborn fatty area below my belly button (and some loose skin just above it). I took these pictures right after dinner, so I'm looking pretty bloated - this is about as bad as it gets for me in these shots. These are not very flattering, and posting them is difficult because I'm very self-conscience about it (you're about to see why). I'm standing totally relaxed in these shots.

Hopefully these products will help me to finally get rid of this last bit of fat, which has absolutely no business on my body at this point (15 months) into my fitness program. ;)

Okay, I've procrastinated long enough. Here they are:

I see what you are talking about, and I understand how it can seem like a big deal to you. I can't give you any advice that you dont know already. All I can say is good luck :tu:

interesting. hope your supplement works for you.

So John is human. I was beginning to wonder. :)

:gl: , I hope it works for you.

BTW, I would feel the same way, no reason to give up now.

btw John, have u checked out other forums and asked over there for opinions? Those guys (bodybuilding.com,elitefitness.com) have much more experience in dropping all bf and many have competed.

John,

Have you looked into the Lipoderm Ultra from Avant, b/c Absolved is more for Visceral Fat and Lipoderm is for SubQ fat? Just wondered

I'm still a newb so my ignorance is going to show in this post but...

I was reading something online about how bodybuilders will prepare for a competition and some of the changes to their diet in the last weeks leading up to a competiton lead to their skin looking "paper thin" so it shows off every muscular detail.

I did a search and dug up the article... Check it out:

http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/magazine/howtoanalysizeyourself.htm

3. The Advanced Bodybuilder

A bodybuilder reaches a more advanced stage when he feels that he has attained a solid base of mass. If you look in the mirror, or at your photos and feel that you have achieved this then your chief goal in this sport changes. ( Again, I feel that every bodybuilders primary goal should be attaining a solid or great level of muscle mass first and foremost! ) However, don't think for a minute that it gets easier. If this is your assessment than you will have to go into an even greater artistic stage in your bodybuilding career.

At this point I would recommend taking countless photographs of yourself and painstakingly critique them. Your goals will have a greater emphasis on thinner skin, separation, body fat percentages, symmetry, lagging body parts, and last but not least a beautiful v-taper.

Lets discuss thinner skin briefly. When a bodybuilder steps on stage his goal is to look as close to an anatomy chart as possible. The thinner his skin is, the closer he will be to this look. In order to achieve this he will want to avoid over stretching his skin with anymore " heavy bulks. " When he does bulk I would recommend it to be a clean one, in which the athlete is extremely cautious about the rate at which he gains weight. This means upping his meal frequency to avoid storage of food, lowering starchy carbs at night and on off days, and very slowly upping his caloric intake.

Also if you notice that an area of your body isn't tight enough, even though your body fat percentage is low, then I would suggest working the area hardcore on a bulk to fill in the loose skin. For example, if you have a small amount of lose skin on your abs, animals mass workout would help fill this in nicely.

Notice how I mention still going on bulks even though the bodybuilder has reached a great base of overall mass. The focus on these bulks however will be mostly lagging body parts, and other aspects of ones physique. I will discuss these in more detail below. At this point in his career he will also shoot for much lower body fat percentages when he cuts, again to achieve that paper thin type of skin he will need for the stage.

Heh... you've got the photos and you are analyzing them! :-)

You said in your post that it seems to be there no matter how much fat you lose... Could it be loose skin? That would explain why it remains at only 8% body fat and below.

Every friday I listen to a fitness guru on the radio here in Houston. His name is Keith Klein and a few weeks ago he took a call from a guy who lost a lot of weight and had issues with loose skin. He said that it takes a long time to tighten up.

The caller was considering plastic surgery and Keith said he knew of some folks in town who specialized in tighting up folks who have lost massive (150+ Lbs lost) but the caller hadn't lost that much and he told him to be patient.

Could it be loose skin?

You're standing relaxed in those shots? I didnt know one could look so ripped without flexing. Then again, I've never been at 8% body fat, so I guess I wouldn't know. But someday, soon... :db:

John That looks Like More Skin than fat to me, But from the side view I can see that maybe some fat is hiding there. Good luck.

Im interested to know what u will do once this fat deposit / loose skin thing is solved. If that is the only bit left that u are unhappy with, what will your goals be once its gone?

Reading back through your work, i note that you always had something to focus on. The removal of the fat in this final area has been ur focus for months. Before then, you had countless other focal points. What will u focus on next?

I note in these forums that everyone is bulking or cutting. No one is maintaining. No one is fully satisfied. I set goals and reached them, but now i look and say "Well actually, that arm could be a little bigger, that part could be a little thinner" and so on. Surely on some level this is narcasistic, striving for a perfection that doesnt exisit, because we will by our very nature find flaws in how we look, no matter what we look like.

That tiny bit of fat / skin is so small, so un-important in the bigger picture, hardly noticable. It is not effecting your health or relationship. But that is all you really have left to loose before u reach ur goal. You need a focus and that is it. But then what? Will you notice something else that "needs improving"?

I fully understand that u are self concious of this area, i, and nearly everyone else on these forums are self concious about areas of our body that to the normal eye, wouldnt even be picked up on.

What do i think? When u (in the sense of general u, not u personally)were overweight, you had a focus and a goal and thats what drives u. In my opinion, you cant train to maintain, because maintainace doesnt drive a person in the same way that Improvment does. It just isnt the same. We want to look in the mirror and see a difference. See some improvement, feel better because we look better. So thats why we pick up on small irrelevent things, so we have something to focus and improve, something to keep us going, keep us training. A slighlty smaller arm, slightly eneven pecs... where does it stop.

I just want to know your feelings on all this. :confused:

And good luck with ur aims ! :nod:

I told you guys that I wasn't imagining it. :)

I've heard conflicting reports on which product (Lipoderm or Ab-Solved) would work best for me, so I just picked one to try first. I'm going to try Lipoderm Ultra next if Ab-Solved doesn't work out for me.

As for future goals, we're getting a bit off-topic for this thread but I want to add lean mass to my upper body and will do so once my shoulder is healed. But I disagree with the statement that once you are happy with your body you can't stay motivated to maintain. Once I reach a certain size, that's exactly what I'm going to do, and I guarantee you that won't have trouble staying motivated.

Hey, John, if there's anyone I know who keeps a detailed journal and has a great baseline to work from - it's you! So I look forward to reading this and seeing if the products do, indeed, help. I've been skeptical for YEARS on fat burners (I posted about this in another thread) simply through my own experience and coaching others, but I'll be the first to sound a "hoo-rah" when we find one that works without horrendous side effects! Keep us posted and best of success with that last little nip. For now, I'll just be satisfied finding my abs again - let alone worrying about that last little bit of belly button! TAKE CARE!

Jeremy

So John is human. I was beginning to wonder. :)

:gl: , I hope it works for you.

BTW, I would feel the same way, no reason to give up now.
John isnt real... John is really animatronic. He is a humanoid employed by MGM Studios in Orlando for the "realistic explosion scenes", and also is a Crash Test Humanoid at the GM Test Track at Epcot.

... and here is the problem area at its worst. These pictures are front, left-side and right-side close-ups of the stubborn fatty area below my belly button (and some loose skin just above it). I took these pictures right after dinner, so I'm looking pretty bloated - this is about as bad as it gets for me in these shots. These are not very flattering, and posting them is difficult because I'm very self-conscience about it (you're about to see why). I'm standing totally relaxed in these shots.

Hopefully these products will help me to finally get rid of this last bit of fat, which has absolutely no business on my body at this point (15 months) into my fitness program. ;)

Okay, I've procrastinated long enough. Here they are:
John, you look to have thick skin... Show us a pinch, maybe even a caliper pinching? In fact, thats a good video request, since a lot of people ask about proper BF % measuring with calipers and measuring themselves. Time for "Proper Measuring and BF % Calculations 101 by John Stone"!

Ive always had thick skin. When I was in the Marine Corps, lots of buddies had paper thin skin. Hell, I had a 1st Lietenant that I reported to that had a 20 inch neck, 49 inch chest, and benched 400+. His skin was LITERALLY like latex. If he pinched what was over his stomach, it was a TINY fold, like 4mm, and his arm vascularity was unbelievable.

Not sure if you are interested in getting professional photos done yet... But you might want to look into one of those 7 day diets to increase leanness/vascularity by yanking water out of the body. Here is one by Chris Janusz http://www.t-mag.com/nation_articles/266seven.jsp , and I know our own Jeremy Likness has a diet similar in structure.

Regardless, good luck on the upcoming supplementation testing. I look forward to the results, and your objective and honest review.

Hey, John, if there's anyone I know who keeps a detailed journal and has a great baseline to work from - it's you! So I look forward to reading this and seeing if the products do, indeed, help. I've been skeptical for YEARS on fat burners (I posted about this in another thread) simply through my own experience and coaching others, but I'll be the first to sound a "hoo-rah" when we find one that works without horrendous side effects! Keep us posted and best of success with that last little nip. For now, I'll just be satisfied finding my abs again - let alone worrying about that last little bit of belly button! TAKE CARE!

Jeremy
I agree with your skepticism. I honestly don't think these products are going to help much (if at all), but I'm sure willing to try and report my findings. The proof, or lack thereof, will be in my pictures and measurements. I think it's a worthwhile endeavor, and may help others who are in a similar situation make a sound choice. We'll see what happens!

John, you look to have thick skin... Show us a pinch, maybe even a caliper pinching? In fact, thats a good video request, since a lot of people ask about proper BF % measuring with calipers and measuring themselves. Time for "Proper Measuring and BF % Calculations 101 by John Stone"!I think you're right. It's not as thick as it was when I was fat, but it's not nearly as thin as some I've seen.

You have to have thick skin if you're going to post pictures of yourself 50 pounds overweight in your underwear on the 'net. ;)

The video idea is a good one! I'm not going to be producing any video until I get the new site up and iron out a few other details, but that's going on the list. :tu:


Not sure if you are interested in getting professional photos done yet... But you might want to look into one of those 7 day diets to increase leanness/vascularity by yanking water out of the body. Here is one by Chris Janusz http://www.t-mag.com/nation_articles/266seven.jsp , and I know our own Jeremy Likness has a diet similar in structure.
I've read that article before and bookmarked it because it's something I'd like to try at some point. Maybe in two months when I'm done with this particular test. While I'm trying these new products I'm not going to change anything other than cut a few calories each day to ensure that any positive results are the due to the products working and nothing else.

Here are my stats and measurements at the start of my program. I suppose the waist measurement is the only really relevant measurement, but I'm putting everything here for the sake of completeness.

Here are my stats and measurements at the start of my program. I suppose the waist measurement is the only really relevant measurement, but I'm putting everything here for the sake of completeness.
what about your waist caliper measurement? how many mm is it? that will be the real telling sign because the changes may just be very slight. also, can you detail what type of application schedule you will be using, ie, how many pumps for the topical, and how you are applying it? some people apply it after a hot shower because the skin absorbs it quicker.

thx!

what about your waist caliper measurement? how many mm is it? that will be the real telling sign because the changes may just be very slight. also, can you detail what type of application schedule you will be using, ie, how many pumps for the topical, and how you are applying it? some people apply it after a hot shower because the skin absorbs it quicker.

thx!Good points!

Pinch test using digital calipers is 6-7mm.
Ab-Solved applied twice daily (morning, after shower and evening, just before bedtime) to lower ab area, 4 pumps per application.
1 Tight capsule daily (morning with 1st solid meal).

Hell John...what you call a problem MOST of us guys would LOVE to have at this point!! One man's trash is another’s treasure. You shouldn't be so hard on your self. I'd LOVE to be at the point in my fat loss/muscle program you are at now!! (Inside my head a strange voice chants....many more weeks to go...must hit gym now!!) :p

-James

Hell John...what you call a problem MOST of us guys would LOVE to have at this point!! One man's trash is another’s treasure. You shouldn't be so hard on your self. I'd LOVE to be at the point in my fat loss/muscle program you are at now!! (Inside my head a strange voice chants....many more weeks to go...must hit gym now!!) :p

-JamesHi James, I'm really not being hard on myself. I'm actually very proud of myself for what I've accomplished! I just know how I want my body to look, and I want to do what I can to make it look that way. :D

I understand what you are saying about one man's trash and all that, but it's all relative: when I was fat I would have loved to look how I look now, but trust me - if after 15 months of dedication, clean eating and hard work you still have fat around your lower abs that just won't go away, you WILL want to get rid of it!

Thanks for the close ups... it was really hard to tell what you were talking about before, and now I understand. Good luck getting rid of it! :nod:

Thanks for the close ups... it was really hard to tell what you were talking about before, and now I understand. Good luck getting rid of it! :nod:

Yeah, looks kinda nasty! :D j/k mate.

Knowing your dedication I'm sure you'll get rid of it pretty quickly. Good luck!

DAY 1

No side effects at all so far. My appetite is the same, and I don't feel any different than normal.

The Ab-Solved did burn when I first applied it, and my skin turned red and felt warm, so I know for a fact that it's working! (I'm kidding, Jeremy! I wanted to throw that in there to get your blood pumping a little harder since I heard that you are cutting right now. ;)) The redness went away after a few minutes and the skin feels perfectly normal. The smell is kinda like suntan oil - not objectionable at all. I kinda like it, actually.

Yes, the close-up pictures really emphasize the problem. It DOES look nasty, no joke. At this point dedication has nothing to do with it. Dedication simply has not done the trick for this one last area, so I'm turning to science for help (hopefully not pseudo-science, but we'll know for sure in a month or two!)

It's true that you wouldn't notice the fat if you were standing more than 10 feel from me, and the effect is much reduced when I'm in a fasted state. I look pretty good down there with no food in my stomach and a tan. Those "bad" pictures were taken right after a big meal and without any flexing (my top 4 abs show even when I'm not flexing when I'm at 8% BF). The lower ab fat kind of ruins the effect of the top 4, though. Almost looks like two different bodies.

I'm looking forward to seeing how things go over the next few weeks! Thanks for the support, all!

interesting that you feel nothing from taking the Tight... VERY interesting. some people report profuse sweating, feeling jittery, and pupil dilation, while others report no effects at all, as if they are taking a placebo. whats the recommended dosage on the bottle? keep this in mind... supplement vendors traditionally underdose their stuff on purpose, to keep liability down. some people are reporting decent responses @ 2 caps/day space about 5 hours apart(1 morning, 1 lunch) ;-)

here is a list of the ingredients::

Proprietary Thermogenic Complex: 375mg
(caffeine anhydrous 99%, green tea extract 60%
EGCG, synephrine 96%, pure guggulsterones
E&Z 99%, sclareolide 96%, yohimbe 99%,
vinpocetine 99%, bioperine 96%)

good luck, and keep the info flowing!

interesting that you feel nothing from taking the Tight... VERY interesting. some people report profuse sweating, feeling jittery, and pupil dilation, while others report no effects at all, as if they are taking a placebo. whats the recommended dosage on the bottle? keep this in mind... supplement vendors traditionally underdose their stuff on purpose, to keep liability down. some people are reporting decent responses @ 2 caps/day space about 5 hours apart(1 morning, 1 lunch) ;-)

here is a list of the ingredients::

Proprietary Thermogenic Complex: 375mg
(caffeine anhydrous 99%, green tea extract 60%
EGCG, synephrine 96%, pure guggulsterones
E&Z 99%, sclareolide 96%, yohimbe 99%,
vinpocetine 99%, bioperine 96%)

good luck, and keep the info flowing!
The recommended dose is one capsule every 24 hours. Actually it says something more along the lines of "DUE TO THE HIGH POTENCY OF THIS PRODUCT, DO NOT TAKE MORE THAN 1 CAPSULE EVERY 24 HOURS".

I'm going to listen to that advice. :)

corbint: also keep in mind for the first initial days you are on stuff like that you need to let your body adjust to them and build up a short tolerance. thats a common factor in taking pills like these, the dosage will increase in the next couple days/weeks. believe me, ive wasted hundreds of dollars on pills like those before i realized i was better off on a healthy diet. dont get me wrong though, they do work, but some have long term effects that you may not want if you are on them for an extended period of time, so be careful John. also - this last summer i wasted $70 on a bottle of 'IMPACT Nutritian's DermaLEAN'. needless to say, it was the biggest waste of $70 ive ever spent in my entire life, so i would stay away from that one. (i bought it off of bodybuilding.com too).

but good luck man and keep up the good work!

The recommended dose is one capsule every 24 hours. Actually it says something more along the lines of "DUE TO THE HIGH POTENCY OF THIS PRODUCT, DO NOT TAKE MORE THAN 1 CAPSULE EVERY 24 HOURS".

I'm going to listen to that advice. :)
that submliminal for all the kids taking it... "its soooo high potent, if i take 2 caps/day, it will work better!" people take 2 a day, it lasts half as long, they sell twice as much product. supply vs demand baby!

Rather than re-type everything, I'm going to post a slightly modified version of today's (March 31, 2004) update, followed by today's daily pictures, and then [gulp] close-up pictures of my lower ab fat and loose skin.


March 31, 2004




I saw earlier that you said you've experimented with both heavy weight/low rep and low weight/high rep ab exercises. But when was the last time you did the heavy weight/low rep stuff? Were your abs as big then as they are now?

Maybe if you try Max-OT style ab workouts for a while (like 6-8 weeks, in the 10-12 rep range) your abs will grow to fill in your loose skin. I know for myself my "fat:total macro" ratio has gone up steadily over the past couple of months, but due to the Max-OT ab workout I've been doing my abs still look more ripped than ever.

Just a thought, perhaps you've already considered it...

I saw earlier that you said you've experimented with both heavy weight/low rep and low weight/high rep ab exercises. But when was the last time you did the heavy weight/low rep stuff? Were your abs as big then as they are now?

Maybe if you try Max-OT style ab workouts for a while (like 6-8 weeks, in the 10-12 rep range) your abs will grow to fill in your loose skin. I know for myself my "fat:total macro" ratio has gone up steadily over the past couple of months, but due to the Max-OT ab workout I've been doing my abs still look more ripped than ever.

Just a thought, perhaps you've already considered it...
Funny you should mention that, I was just thinking the other day that my lower abs might need a new training program to get significantly bigger. I have seen some improvement in them (first thing in the morning or when when I stretch the skin tight), but I think you're right - going heavy might really help them fill that loose skin.

When I do reverse crunches and leg lifts, what am I supposed to do? Hold a dumbbell between my feet and hope it doesn't wind up re-decorating my face if it slips? Or are heavy ankle weights for stuff like this available? Mine are only like 3.3 pounds. What's the best way to add weight for MAX-OT style "lower" ab training?

bah, i dont believe in any of that nonsense, all you need to do is do normal crunches, maybe 3x25 while holding a plate or however much weight you can handle. keep the reps low and the weight high, go slow and feel the burn. if you complete your sets and dont feel the burn then you will either need to increase the weight, or slow down :)

also - maybe try holding your legs up in a 'crunch' position when doing flat bench, that also works the abs quite a bit.

When I do reverse crunches and leg lifts, what am I supposed to do? Hold a dumbbell between my feet and hope it doesn't wind up re-decorating my face if it slips? Or are heavy ankle weights for stuff like this available? Mine are only like 3.3 pounds. What's the best way to add weight for MAX-OT style "lower" ab training?

That is a good question. So far I only use ankle weights similar to yours, and I am afraid to hold a DB between my feet, but I just looked up some ankle weight stuff and though they are expensive, http://www.inch-aweigh.com/fitness/weights/wrist_ankle_weights.htm there are some higher weight ankle weights.

I would like to hear from someone who has tried both methods. I can't see how I would ever feel comfortable lifting a dumbbell with my feet though.

bah, i dont believe in any of that nonsense, all you need to do is do normal crunches, maybe 3x25 while holding a plate or however much weight you can handle. keep the reps low and the weight high, so slow and feel the burn. if you complete your sets and dont feel the burn then you will either need to increase the weight, or slow down :)
Don't get me wrong, I've been doing really well with my current routine. When I finish each set I roll off the decline bench moaning like someone just knocked the wind out of me. My abs are sore for a few days afterwards, too. Still, I'm not above trying new things, and would like to see how a heavier type of ab workout effects me. There are definitely two schools of thought when it comes to training abs and calves. I've already tried the low rep/heavy weight program for my calves and there's no question that moderate weight/high reps work much better for me. As for my abs, I won't know until I try. :)

for my weight routines i generally stick to 3x5 for all lifts and have excellent results. as for my abs i have too much fat to see whether or not it works as well, but i dont see why it wouldnt if it works good for every other visible muscle in the body lol

for my weight routines i generally stick to 3x5 for all lifts and have excellent results. as for my abs i have too much fat to see whether or not it works as well, but i dont see why it wouldnt if it works good for every other visible muscle in the body lol

It's different because not every muscle is the same :)

For my calves, abs, forearms, and lateral DB raises, I do 10-12 reps. For just about everything else I do 4-6 reps. I'm not sure why but this seems to work well for me.

interesting that you feel nothing from taking the Tight... VERY interesting. some people report profuse sweating, feeling jittery, and pupil dilation, while others report no effects at all, as if they are taking a placebo. whats the recommended dosage on the bottle? keep this in mind... supplement vendors traditionally underdose their stuff on purpose, to keep liability down. some people are reporting decent responses @ 2 caps/day space about 5 hours apart(1 morning, 1 lunch) ;-)

here is a list of the ingredients::

Proprietary Thermogenic Complex: 375mg
(caffeine anhydrous 99%, green tea extract 60%
EGCG, synephrine 96%, pure guggulsterones
E&Z 99%, sclareolide 96%, yohimbe 99%,
vinpocetine 99%, bioperine 96%)

good luck, and keep the info flowing!


S.A.N. is a pretty reputable company, on labelclaimstesting.com TIGHT actually contained more E/Z-Guggulsterones than the label said.
I have been taking TIGHT for awhile.....I cycled off of it for about a month or so and now I'm back on it. I love TIGHT....I have had nothing but good results with it...of course we are all different and what works for me might not work with you, but as far as being underdose TIGHT is overdosed:D click here to view the label claims testing info (http://www.labelclaimstesting.com/?pageID=16)

John,

I'm relatively new here at your forum.

You've provided a great outlet here at johnstonefitness.com for anyone willing to not only seek The Knowledge but to APPLY The Knowledge to Transform their bodies.

I've been going over your food journals...This is what I would do if I was you.

I'm just recommending this...if you don't agree that's fine...but... I've been heavy and out of shape before...due to freak accidents I've been playing catch up more than once.


I've gotten in shape with ephedra products, ephedra free products, and without...my personal feeling is you can get in shape without them.

Back to your food logs... I've noticed a lot of fruit juices, red meat, (oils and peanut butter in the same day) peanuts, fruit, peanuts, Pretzels,eggbeaters, etc. I would personally eliminate all of this!

To me that in my opinion is Not eating clean. I could be wrong...but everytime I transformed my body All I had was meal replacement shakes, protein powder, chicken breast, tunafish, real eggs, potatoes, rice, and only one tablespoon of canola oil per day.

To drink all I had was a lot of water (3 gallons per day)(Yeah, I did a lot of pee pee!) and Diet Soda.

I didn't keep any food logs...just a portion (size of your fist) of protein and a portion (size of your fist) of complex carbs every three hours.
If I couldn't eat a meal Then I had an MRP shake.

That's it...to me that's clean

You could disagree but if you haven't tried the above approach...it just might be what you've been looking for.

I hope this helps you in your quest to a "tight tummy".

With Respect,

Bill Belfert

When I do reverse crunches and leg lifts, what am I supposed to do? Hold a dumbbell between my feet and hope it doesn't wind up re-decorating my face if it slips?

I used to do lower ab excersizes with dumbells between my feet all the time. In all honesty, its not that hard, as long as you keep your feet together. You dont spend as much time thinking about your feet and dropping the weight as you would think. But boy do they kill your abs!

John,

I'm relatively new here at your forum.

You've provided a great outlet here at johnstonefitness.com for anyone willing to not only seek The Knowledge but to APPLY The Knowledge to Transform their bodies.

I've been going over your food journals...This is what I would do if I was you.

I'm just recommending this...if you don't agree that's fine...but... I've been heavy and out of shape before...due to freak accidents I've been playing catch up more than once.


I've gotten in shape with ephedra products, ephedra free products, and without...my personal feeling is you can get in shape without them.
Hi Bill, thanks for the kind words.

With all respect, I already am in great shape. :) Getting in shape is not my problem, losing fat (in general) is not my problem - I'm at 8% body fat and am frequently told that I'm too skinny. I have a problem with a small amount of stubborn adipose tissue below my belly button that has been with me for most of my life. No amount of clean eating/dieting is going to get rid of it without dropping my body fat to insane levels. I could cut up to 6% if I wanted to, but I don't want to do that. I don't want to get any lower than I am now.


Back to your food logs... I've noticed a lot of fruit juices, red meat, (oils and peanut butter in the same day) peanuts, fruit, peanuts, Pretzels,eggbeaters, etc. I would personally eliminate all of this!

To me that in my opinion is Not eating clean. I could be wrong...but everytime I transformed my body All I had was meal replacement shakes, protein powder, chicken breast, tunafish, real eggs, potatoes, rice, and only one tablespoon of canola oil per day.
I do disagree with you - I eat a very clean and balanced diet. Doing so has allowed me to drop over 55 pounds of fat, gain lean mass and become very healthy. The stubborn area of fat that I'm addressing here has always been with me, even when I was a competitive swimmer, even when I was 160 pounds and ate no fruit or red meat.

Anyway, to me, a "clean" diet is a diet consisting of little to no processed foods, with a healthy balance of carbs, protein and good (omega 3 and omega 6) fats. The foods you mention above all fall in to these categories. Let's look at the list of foods you feel I should eliminate from my diet:

"A lot" of fruit juice - I drink 8 Oz of Orange juice post-workout each morning. I don't think that is a lot. Orange juice is healthy, and not counter-productive to weight loss when consumed in moderation early in the day.
Red Meat - I only started eating red meat about 1-2 months ago. There has been no change in my body fat percentage since I started eating very lean (trimmed top sirloin) steak and 97% lean beef jerky. Actually, my body fat percentage has gone DOWN slightly since I started eating that stuff!
Peanuts - I have not had any peanuts in months. Same goes for peanut butter, except for the odd tablespoon here and there to help me reach my 20% daily intake of healthy fats. It's rare that I eat peanut butter.
Fruit - I'm not sure why you included fruit on your list because I have one single banana PER WEEK - that's it! Other than that one banana, I eat no fruit. The banana is eaten right after my leg training along with my protein shake.
Pretzels - My 3:30 snack of pretzels and tuna or jerky contain the last carbs I eat in the day (except veggies with dinner). The pretzels are 100% whole grain.
Eggbeaters - You mentioned that you eat whole eggs, but then say I should not eat eggbeaters? Eggbeaters are real eggs with the yolk removed. Eggbeaters (egg whites) are much better than whole eggs for weight loss!

To drink all I had was a lot of water (3 gallons per day)(Yeah, I did a lot of pee pee!) and Diet Soda.Other than a couple cups of black coffee, I drink nothing but water all day (1.5 - 2 gallons per day).


I didn't keep any food logs...just a portion (size of your fist) of protein and a portion (size of your fist) of complex carbs every three hours.
If I couldn't eat a meal Then I had an MRP shake.
That's it...to me that's clean
I track my food intake carefully because it allows me to make adjustments without guessing. Doing so has worked out very well for me. I don't miss meals, and I don't drink RTDs or MRPs.


You could disagree but if you haven't tried the above approach...it just might be what you've been looking for.

I hope this helps you in your quest to a "tight tummy".

With Respect,

Bill BelfertI do appreciate your input, and the input of others in this thread, but this thread is really starting to veer off topic. :) I started this thread so I could journal my 2-month experience with Tight, Ab-Solved, and eventually Lipoderm Ultra. My mind's made up as far as these short-term tests go. I welcome further discussions along the lines of your post and other posts in this thread (very interesting stuff), but the discussion(s) should be held in new thread(s) posted in the appropriate forum(s).

Thanks again for your input!

Fair enough John.

I hope these tests work out for you.

I'll be reading and watching your progress.

Thanks for your respect and professionalism.

Bill

DAY 2

I definitely felt a little jittery this afternoon, but nothing too bad. Kind of like how I feel when I drink a lot of coffee. The "Tight!" also seems to be affecting my appetite somewhat. My appetite was normal all day until my 3:30 meal. Normally by 3:30 my internal alarm goes off and I'm pretty hungry. Today I looked up at the clock and it was 4:30. I missed my meal and really was not all that hungry. I ate anyway and enjoyed it. :)

As for the Ab-Solved, I have a very slight rash on my left and right side but nothing bad at all. The stuff burns when I put it on right after my shower in the morning! The skin in that area is a little drier than normal, but some extra lotion took care of that.

The most interesting thing is that I only weighed 1.2 pounds more this morning after last night's cheat meal. Normally I weigh 3+ pounds more the day after my cheat meal (water, of course).

hmm, just wondering, wouldnt it be better to stop the cheat meals, and just go all hardcore for a month to see if u can finally lose the fat?

a single cheat meal, over the course of a week-long caloric deficit, doesnt really affect the overall weight loss endeavor. it does however somewhat help to keep your thyroid on its toes, and prevent it from slowing down and halting your weight loss progress. its even better if you have a cheat day, to eat at maintenance level cals, or even slightly above, to ensure the thyroid keeps humming along.

hmm, just wondering, wouldnt it be better to stop the cheat meals, and just go all hardcore for a month to see if u can finally lose the fat?What Troy said. It's also worth noting that I didn't have a single cheat meal or even cheat snack during the entire length of my initial weight loss program and I still had the lower ab fat.

DAY 3

My appetite was normal today - maybe even a bit more hungry than usual, but that is probably due to the new caloric deficit and the yard work I did all morning. I spent lots of time working in the hot sun today and felt fine - plenty of energy but not nervous or jittery.

The little bit of rash on my right and left side is still there, but no worse and not bad at all.

This morning I measured myself at my waist and it was 30.25" (down 1/4"). It could just be water loss, but the smallest my waist has ever been over the last 15 months is 30.5". I'll wait until the end of the first week and measure again before I make it official, but so far I'm very intrigued by what I'm seeing...

john, wacky request but would you mind taking a pic of the rash? also, any estimate on how the Tight! is increasing your caloric deficit? ive seen some people measure it with those calorimeters, basically take a measurement pre-ECA, wait 1 hour, take ECA, wait 1 hour, measure, and note difference.

Im sure you are pretty locked in to your cals per day, so this might be easy to figure out after a few weeks based on weight loss or just how you and your appetite do. something to think about anyways!

that'd be pretty cool that the supplement could be working already. props to the supplement.

Troy, here ya go. It's really not bad at all. The other side is almost completely gone now.

ahh thats not too bad, i was thinking it was turning your abdominal area red as a tomatoe.

You're looking a little more cut in your daily photo, is it possible that the suppliments are just lowering you bf% a little bit?

he has only been on the supps for maybe 4 days. there is no way possible they have created a caloric deficit for it to be noticeable. do realize that he had a cheat meal on friday that probably added subcutaneous(sp?) water to his body, which made him appear more smooth. john mentions he worked outside on sunday in the sun, which helped remove some of this water, and by monday is appearing a tad bit more vascular and shredded.

i personally dont think we will see any true evidence of these supps working for at least 2 weeks.

DAYS 4 & 5

I've been feeling extra hungry the past 2 days. I've been trying to eat a little below maintenance the past few days and it just didn't work out with the supps and all the cardio. Today I ate normally and felt much better, but was still a little hungry after dinner. Last night after dinner I felt kind of weak so I had a double protein shake in water and some beef jerky and that helped a lot.

This morning I felt awesome and managed to go 9.1 miles on the elliptical in 50 minutes while keeping my average heart rate at 156. That's a personal best, and I had plenty of energy in reserve. One day, just to see how good I can do, I'm going to go all out for 50 minutes and not worry about keeping my heart rate in its aerobic zone. :D I love distance events. My best race when I was competitive swimmer was the mile (1500 meter freestyle).

Oh, the rash is all but gone now. :tu:

I doubt that I'm seeing any results from the products yet (and I'm still not convinced that I ever will). I do look a little more lean, though, but that's probably just because I lost 4 pounds of fat over the past month (http://www.johnstonefitness.com/all/front/m.html).

Good points!

Pinch test using digital calipers is 6-7mm.

Do you have the FatTrackII? How do you know how hard to press on the thing? It can make a difference of up to 4mm if you put allmost no pressure on it, or if you squeeze it a bit. (the blue button is of no use for pressure). A lot of people have troubles with this thing. Please take a look at this thread: http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?t=3226

When I do reverse crunches and leg lifts, what am I supposed to do? Hold a dumbbell between my feet and hope it doesn't wind up re-decorating my face if it slips? Or are heavy ankle weights for stuff like this available? Mine are only like 3.3 pounds. What's the best way to add weight for MAX-OT style "lower" ab training?
I allways put a rope through a plate, and put my feet through the rope (pretty safe)..

John, In your daily photo, how does your skin shine like that? Do you use a lotion before the photo? I know oiling up is part of the backstage prep for any bodybuilder, just wondering if it's something you're doing for your pics.

John, In your daily photo, how does your skin shine like that? Do you use a lotion before the photo? I know oiling up is part of the backstage prep for any bodybuilder, just wondering if it's something you're doing for your pics.
http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?t=2306

Do you have the FatTrackII? How do you know how hard to press on the thing? It can make a difference of up to 4mm if you put allmost no pressure on it, or if you squeeze it a bit. (the blue button is of no use for pressure). A lot of people have troubles with this thing. Please take a look at this thread: http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?t=3226

Yes. I just press very lightly until it beeps. It took a lot of practice before I started to get consistent results.

WEEK 1

My appetite has been HUGE the past few days! I guess it's the Tight burning more calories or something. I've been absolutely starving at each meal.

The mild rash from the Ab-Solved is totally gone. I'm definitely 1/4" smaller around the waist than I've ever been (down from 30.5" to 30.25").

Nothing else new to report. Lisa said that my problem area looks flatter, and I am seeing the same thing. Of course this is first thing in the morning. by the time I've had a few meals I can't say I notice much of a difference. It's only been a week, though. I'm looking forward to seeing how things progress over the next couple of weeks.

My only question is, if the "problem area" is gone after X amount of time, how can you be sure it was due to the Ab-solved supplement and not from the extreme amount of cardio you are doing with still a pretty low calorie diet.

Just food for thought.

My only question is, if the "problem area" is gone after X amount of time, how can you be sure it was due to the Ab-solved supplement and not from the extreme amount of cardio you are doing with still a pretty low calorie diet.

Just food for thought.I've not modified my diet or cardio routine. I've had the same problem most of my life, so if goes away over the next 2 months I think it's safe to say the supps are reason.

So given today's events, what is the fate of this two month experiment?

So given today's events, what is the fate of this two month experiment?I have to stop taking all this stuff 5 days before the surgery, so it looks like my experiment is going to be cut short. I'll pick back up in a few weeks when I can resume my cardio workouts.

As of this morning I'm down to 30 inches on my waist (1/2 inch lost in 3 weeks). The smallest my waist has ever been until now is 30.5 inches, even last summer when I weighed 160 pounds. None of my other measurements have changed. I'm still not satisfied with that area, but I can see an improvement. Looks like I have a little more loose skin to deal with now, too. ;)

Nothing else new to report. The rash never returned and there have been no other side-effects.

I've had this funny idea in my head that local heat application during cardio might be useful for spot reducing.
It could be done with a heat pad.
I have also seen advertisements for heat pads that are used for menopause or pms or something like that for cramps. They just stick right to the lower abdomen, so the design is already taken care of.

As for scientific info to back this up, I pulled this from this site:
http://www.mco.edu/pr/newsmco/1999_May_25_12_12_14.html

"Cells produce heat shock proteins, or HSPs, in response to stress caused by heat, fever, or exposure to toxins."
"What we find is that in cells subjected to both heat shock and cortisol, the activity of the cortisol pathway is greatly increased."

Also, increased temperature increases membrane fluidity.
(I don't know if that has anything to do with fat loss, but it seems plausible.)

As for ab exercise, I have "gravity boots" to use with my pull up bar.
These will shred your abs in no time. You can hold weights if you're feeling like superman.
I use these on a free-standing pull up bar with dip bar extension. So between sets of upside down sit-ups, I'll take the pressure off my feet by grabbing onto the dip bars. This shreds my hands and forearms.

http://www.bodytrends.com/products/inversion/gravityboots.htm

I love these things, and have had them for about 5 years. The design looks pretty much the same since I bought mine.

Goofy ideas, but whatever....

John, just curious as to why you use 2 different fat burners and not just one?? Do they do separate things to your body? Thanks

Hi, Im obviously not John, but i think i can answer your question. The first fat burner SANS Tight, is a capsule form that is taken once daily. It is for "systemic" fat loss. In other words fat loss over the entire body. I believe John is taking it to boost his metabolism a bit. The Ab-Solved is a transdermal fat loss cream/gel. It is not some hoax ripping gel but rather a gel that can actually help you lose fat in a specific area with application (in John's case his lower abs). The transdermal takes fat away from the site but in order to get rid of it you have to be in some kind of caloric deficit so you have to burn it off or eat less calories which John has been doing. Im sure John can give a much more specific answer. Mine is kinda of rambling and disorganized. (DISCLAIMER:) I apologize if i have misinformed you by misinterpreting or misrepresenting what John is trying to accomplish but that was what i gleaned from his posts in this thread and his daily posts on his main site.

no, that's helpful...I appreciate it.

Perfect. :)

Hi, Im obviously not John, but i think i can answer your question. The first fat burner SANS Tight, is a capsule form that is taken once daily. It is for "systemic" fat loss. In other words fat loss over the entire body. I believe John is taking it to boost his metabolism a bit. The Ab-Solved is a transdermal fat loss cream/gel. It is not some hoax ripping gel but rather a gel that can actually help you lose fat in a specific area with application (in John's case his lower abs). The transdermal takes fat away from the site but in order to get rid of it you have to be in some kind of caloric deficit so you have to burn it off or eat less calories which John has been doing. Im sure John can give a much more specific answer. Mine is kinda of rambling and disorganized. (DISCLAIMER:) I apologize if i have misinformed you by misinterpreting or misrepresenting what John is trying to accomplish but that was what i gleaned from his posts in this thread and his daily posts on his main site.

I should mention that on the day of my surgery my waist measured 30" (down from an all-time low of 30.5"). Not bad...

Today I got the OK from my doctor to resume cardio, so starting tomorrow I'll be resuming my test. Unfortunately I'll be dealing with swelling for another 4 weeks or so, but once the swelling goes down any results should be visible. Right now, though, my waist is swollen up to over 31"!

I also bought some Lipoderm Ultra and will be trying that once the Ab-Solved is gone.

Rather than re-type everything, I'm going to post a slightly modified version of today's (March 31, 2004) update, followed by today's daily pictures, and then [gulp] close-up pictures of my lower ab fat and loose skin.


March 31, 2004




John,

Thank you for all information you have shared with people like me. It is funny how I have stumble to your site by a mere chance. My question is about your abs fat reduction supplements. Did you take them both at the same time or did you started with one and when finished it continue to another?

Thanks,

Faye

Updates?

anything?

anything?Nope. I may do another test at some point. If I do I'll start a new thread.