Hi all,

I am loath to post another “Critique my Meal Plan” post simply because there are so many out there. I do however have a couple of questions about my meal plan.

I have been using the plan for about four months and am satisfied but for the few queries I have below.

Points to remember:

I am bulking.
I drink around 6 liters of water a day.
The sample below is for a workout day. First a sample of a days eating…

7:00am: 1 Cup of Oats
¼ Cup of Bran
¼ Cup of Wheat Germ
1 Cup Skim Milk
1 Scoop Whey Protein

10:30am: 2 Slices whole-wheat bread or equivalent whole-wheat crackers
Small salad incl. tomato, onion, carrot, cucumber
20 grams flax seeds
50 grams yogurt cheese

1:00pm: 150 gram roasted chicken breast
1 Cup Brown Rice
Mixed veggies
½ Tbsp Olive oil

3:30pm: Shake consisting of:
1 cup skim milk
1 banana
1 Scoop of Whey
½ Tbsp Peanut butter
¼ Cup Oats

4:30pm: Workout for about 1 ½ hours consisting of:
20 minutes elliptical trainer (hiit style)
3 Day split:
Day 1: Back and Biceps
Day 2: Chest, Triceps and Abs
Day 3: Legs and Shoulders
4 Sets of 8 – 12 Reps
Mostly compound exercises with some isolation exercises thrown in.

6:00pm PWO Shake consisting of:
1 Cup Water
50 grams dextrose
5 grams creatine
1 Scoop of Whey

7:00pm 85 grams Tuna in water
1 Whole egg
2 Egg Whites
1 Cup Brown Rice
3 Cups Salad (incl. Lettuce, cucumber, tomato, carrot, onion etc)
½ Tbsp Flax seed oil

9:30pm 1 Cup Nonfat yogurt
¼ Cup Oats
½ Tbsp Peanut butter
1 Medium Apple


This equates to about 3200 calories, I say about because I no longer log my food on Fitday. A decision I took because I was becoming obsessed and fixated on logging my food and was stressing about being 10 calories over or under etc. I logged my food for over a year and a half so I have a pretty good idea how much to eat.

My questions:

Although I am bulking I decided to keep it absolutely clean. I have however noticed that my love handles are coming back, after having all but lost them in my 50 kilogram cut. I think that this could be due to carbohydrate timing and would appreciate some advice about this regarding the plan above. My thoughts were to eliminate carbs at 10am and 1pm.
I suffer terribly from indigestion during my workouts even though I have my pre-workout meal in liquid form and at least an hour before training. What could I change to eliminate this problem? I was thinking that eliminating the carbs at 10am and 1pm might fix this?
If I eliminate the carbs from the 10am and 1pm meals then must I add them in after my workout? Keeping in mind that my workout is at night and it is not advisable to eat too many carbs at night albeit after my workout?
I am a FFB (Former Fat Boy), thus should I not use dextrose? I have been using it for a while now but it may also be contributing to the return of my love handles.
I have gained about 5 kilograms in about 4 months, some of which is muscle and I have gained about 1 – 2 percent body fat according to my calipers. But my love handles seem to have blown up in the last couple of weeks or so. Comments?
On non workout days I eliminate my PWO Shake and reduce carbs substantially at night. I apologies for the lengthy post and fully understand if I get few or no replies. I hope however that someone will take the time to read this and offer some ideas.

* Although I am bulking I decided to keep it absolutely clean. I have however noticed that my love handles are coming back, after having all but lost them in my 50 kilogram cut. I think that this could be due to carbohydrate timing and would appreciate some advice about this regarding the plan above. My thoughts were to eliminate carbs at 10am and 1pm.

No. They're coming back because you have an excess of daily calories. You could lower your carbs but by how much is hard to say since you don't log.




* I suffer terribly from indigestion during my workouts even though I have my pre-workout meal in liquid form and at least an hour before training. What could I change to eliminate this problem?
Drop the PB. Have the pre-shake further out....say 3:00pm.


* If I eliminate the carbs from the 10am and 1pm meals then must I add them in after my workout? Keeping in mind that my workout is at night and it is not advisable to eat too many carbs at night albeit after my workout?
Says who? You're bulking, aren't you?
Carbs + Pro....PWO and PPWO.


* I am a FFB (Former Fat Boy), thus should I not use dextrose? I have been using it for a while now but it may also be contributing to the return of my love handles.
It might, I'm not a dex fan at the best of times. Your shake is pure sugar....where's the malto or oats?


* I have gained about 5 kilograms in about 4 months, some of which is muscle and I have gained about 1 – 2 percent body fat according to my calipers. But my love handles seem to have blown up in the last couple of weeks or so. Comments?
Eat less and start logging for a while. You are taking a bodybuilding approach to gainning muscle....you better apply it to your nutrition (the successful ones count and weigh). You can't wing it and guesstimate otherwise your results are, what they are.

* On non workout days I eliminate my PWO Shake and reduce carbs substantially at night.

You say you're bulking but you are taking a cutting attitude. Remember, excess protein will simply be converted to glucose via glucogeneisis.


Other things
==========
How are your workouts? On a bulk you should be pushing the weight increments just about every workout. Have you been progressively overloading? Why are you doing HIIT 3x/week on a bulk, FFB or not. Your energy should be going into heavier iron not more intense cardio.

Drop the HIIT.
Decrease your cals by about 300 -400 cals across the board
Start logging till you straighten things out.
Lift heavier weights


3 Day split:
Day 1: Back and Biceps
Day 2: Chest, Triceps and Abs
Day 3: Legs and Shoulders
4 Sets of 8 – 12 Reps
Mostly compound exercises with some isolation exercises thrown in.

More details are needed.....please expand this for us so we can see what the volume is like. List out your exercises.

Excellent reply... Thank you. My response below:

Your shake is pure sugar....where's the malto or oats?

I forgot to mention a 1/4 Cup of Oats in this shake also. It has been difficult at times to find the supplements I want to try in my country (South Africa). Eventually I found out that Dex was just glucose by another name. Malto I have yet to find.

You can't wing it and guesstimate otherwise your results are, what they are.


I logged my food for over a year with utmost dedication. I decided to stop doing it about a month ago. I did this because it was beginning to drive me and my family mad. I would spend more time working out my diet than spending time with my three year old daughter. I have been eating the same quantities and foods since I stopped my log, perhaps even more strictly because I knew I wasn't logging it. I understand the point of the log and perhaps I can find a balance whereby I log what I eat once or twice a week to check progress.

Drop the HIIT.

Are you suggesting that I do no cardio at all?

Drop the PB. Have the pre-shake further out....say 3:00pm.

Thank you, that makes sense. I will give this a go.

My workout routine is as follows:

Day 1 (4 Sets of 8 - 12 Reps) Back and Biceps

Straight Leg Deadlifts
Barbell Bentover Rows
Chin ups
Dumbell Shrugs
Dumbell Bent Over Rows
EZ Bar Preacher Curls
Hammer Curls

Day 2 (4 Sets of 8 - 12 Reps) Chest, Triceps and Abs

Barbell Bench Press
Incline Dumbell Bench Press
Dumbell Fly's
Straight Arm Pullovers
Tricep Dips
Tricep Rope Pullovers
Weighted Crunches

Day 3 (4 Sets of 8 - 12 Reps) Legs and Shoulders

Squats
Standing Calf Raises
Leg Extentions
Leg Press
Donkey Calf Raises
Barbell Upright Press
Standing Military Press

Points to remember:

I realise that there are isolation exercises in there that some would suggest taking out. I have discussed this on this forum and decided that I would still do them because I enjoy them (Enjoyment of the routine is pivotal).

I only have three days a week to train.

I have just come off TBT to do a split again for two reasons, irstly variety and secondly to focus more on each muscle group.

Are you suggesting that I do no cardio at all?

No not at all. I'm suggesting you do some sort of light cardio....like brisk walking (but save the legs).

HIIT is the equivalent of a workout (provided you are truely doing HIIT) and if you are doing 30min worth I kinda doubt it's HIIT. 10-15 mins mops the floor with most regular folk.



Barbell Upright Press
Standing Military Press

I'd pull our the upright press.....since you have the military press and replace with a reverse fly (pinky's up).

Leg day you are very quad dominant....alternate the LP and squat with a glute-ham raise/RDL/deep stepup/reverse hyper/kneeling squat....you get the idea.

so squat/RDL one week
LP/glute-ham the next etc...


I understand the point of the log and perhaps I can find a balance whereby I log what I eat once or twice a week to check progress.

That's a plan. At least check-in. Similar to weighing....once in a while to remain on track.

What is your current weight and height?
How did you determine your bulking cals?
What was maintenance?
How did you come up with the numbers for your PWO shake? What model are you following?

Your carbohydrates seem pretty darn high there compared to protein. Are you getting 1g of protein per pound of body weight?

Actually, how much do you weigh in general? 3200 calories is quite a lot, so you're either a pretty big guy or you're eating too much for your size.

At breakfast for example, almost all of that food is carbohydrates. 1 cup of oats is about 300 calories right there, not counting your bran and germ on top of that (why are you eating that much of both of those as well?). All that is paired with just one scoop of whey, so you've only got about 20g of protein in that meal.

For your PWO shake, quit going all Dextrose. The idea of an insulin spike is to aid in nutrient transfer to your muscles and in particular to replenish lost glycogen. The bigger you are, and more specifically the more endomorphic you are, the more difficult it is for you to use up your muscles' glycogen stores (this isn't necessarily a bad thing at all). This means that the need to rapidly replenish them is lessened.

I'd use a little Dextrose, maybe one or two tablespoons tops, and have the rest of your shake be more complex carbohydrate from either maltodextrin or oats. You seem to have no trouble finding oats where you are, and they're a ridiculously good carbohydrate source for pretty much any time of day. I'd do 1/2 cup of oats and maybe a tablespoon or so of Dextrose (should be around 12g I think). That will give you enough simple carbohydrate for immediately PWO and enough slow release of glucose for recovery.

And I agree that you should drop the HIIT. Bulking shouldn't involve a ton of cardio. Yes, you should still do cardio, but leave it for your off days. If you're going to cardio around your lifting, have it be a small amount (like 10-15 minutes) of low-intensity cardio as a warmup. If you're doing HIIT your depleting glycogen that you need for your lifting. I do HIIT every day but I'm cutting and I do it first thing in the morning and lift in the evening.

Also, that last meal has almost no protein in it. Yogurt has very little protein by weight. I doubt you're even getting 10g from all that. You need a decent amount of protein before bed to avoid catabolism, especially something slow-digesting. Cottage cheese would be ideal, or some sort of casein protein powder. Another option is some other protien source that's not too quick to digest (eggs, chicken breast, etc.) and a healthy fat source to delay absorption. Lay off the carbohydrates right before bed, especially sugars (of which you're consuming a decent amount).

Overall I seriously suggest counting calories and logging all your nutritional info. I think you'll find your diet is not anywhere near where you think it is.:gl:

Hi,

Thanks once again for the reply. As always my response below:

HIIT is the equivalent of a workout (provided you are truely doing HIIT) and if you are doing 30min worth I kinda doubt it's HIIT. 10-15 mins mops the floor with most regular folk.

I mentioned that I am doing 20 minutes, but that was in fact an error on my part. I am doing 15 minutes of HIIT style training on the eliptical.

What is your current weight and height?

Weight: 84.90 Kg (187 pounds)
Height: 180 centimeters (5.90 foot)

How did you determine your bulking cals?

When I weighed my lightest I maintained at around 2300 cals so I increased slowly by 200 cals or so every week until now which is around 3200 cals.

What was maintenance?

See above.

How did you come up with the numbers for your PWO shake? What model are you following?


Good I asked around on forums etc and decided on the numbers based on calorie intake. I new that I needed protein, oats and whey in the shake so thats what I did.

So you are suggesting that I tone down the cardio and reduce my calories somewhat, and keep lifting heavy. I think I am lifting as heavy as I possibly can but I have philosophical argument about that. Surely lifting heavy is based on perception. I.e. If we take two people of exactly the same strength and have them lift the same weight one may find the weight heavier than the other based on their tolerance of pain etc. When I squat my heart rate goes up to about 180 beats per minute. I am 30 and my max heart rate is 190 so that is quite high. Does that then mean I am lifting heavy enough or is that not a good indication at all?

Ahhh, excellent stuff guys, thanks...

My response to Glaive's post...

Your carbohydrates seem pretty darn high there compared to protein.

As in all third world country's protein is more expensive than carbohydrates, in fact in most countries, nevermind third world, but it is bad here. To try to put it into perspective... chicken on the bone with skin can be found for around 15 Rand (local currency) a kilo while beef is easily upwards of 70 rand a kilo. Potatoes and bananas are around 3 to 5 Rand a kilo with canned Tuna coming in around 30 to 40 Rand a kilo. Fresh fish is also heavily overpriced. It is cheaper to buy whey based on grams of protein per gram than any other source of protein but its difficult to justify to my wife why we have to spend so much on a powder that the rest of the family dont eat. :eek:

Actually, how much do you weigh in general? 3200 calories is quite a lot, so you're either a pretty big guy or you're eating too much for your size.

See above post for weight. The reason I went up to 3200 cals is because I wasn't gaining any weight. I may have been too hasty to push up my cals however I have weighted 84/85 kilos now for a couple of weeks which lead me to think I have to push them up again. :confused:

I agree with the general concensus regarding my PWO Shake. I will cut the dex (was thinking of doing that anyway) and increase the oats.

Lay off the carbohydrates right before bed, especially sugars (of which you're consuming a decent amount).


Once again, I agree, and was thinking of doing this too. I didn't think that I was consuming that many sugars. :confused:

As for breakfast, would you suggest that I reduce the oats to 1/2 cup and add another scoop of protein? I just want to avoid having to use too much whey protein each day (must make it last as long as possible). I cant bring myself to eat something savoury at breakfast, the closest I have come to a savoury breakfast is egg whites in my oats. I love my breakfast and would go so far as to say its the best meal of my day... :drool:

I think you'll find your diet is not anywhere near where you think it is.

You may be right but I really dont feel that I am that far off. As I explained I may even be more strict than I was when I was logging my food because I am now in the dark about my calories. But as I said I will check in once or twice a week on random days to see how I am doing food wise.

What do you all think about swimming for cardio while on a bulk. I did some swimming during my cut but found that firstly I cramp up terribly when I swim (especially my calves and arches of my feet :confused:) and secondly the amount of calories burned swimming for 40 minutes is the same as running for 10 minutes! Not really worth the effort IMO.

Weight: 84.90 Kg (187 pounds)
Height: 180 centimeters (5.90 foot)

When I weighed my lightest I maintained at around 2300 cals so I increased slowly by 200 cals or so every week until now which is around 3200 cals.

IMO, this is the answer to your "love handles". You're eating about 900 over maintenance (give or take) which equates to about 6300 / week or almost 2 lbs. No way can you be gaining 2 lbs of muscle per week. You're also gaining fat, hence the love handles.

Granted there is a margin of error in the above since you're guestimating calories. I'd start tracking and probably cut back to about 3500 / week over maintenance.

187 at 5'9 is already pretty solid. Any idea your %bf before you started the bulk?

If the fat gain is unacceptable you need either back off cals alittle, or, retailor those macros some.

Heavy weights are diffferent for everyone....I completely agree. By heavier weights, I meant you need to be systematically increasing the load week after week (or attempting too)....that can mean weights or reps/sets. Don't always stick with 4X8.... how long did you intend to stick with that program? Have you been doing 4X8 for 4 months straight?

I didn't read all the replies above, so forgive me if this was covered.

But regarding carbs, I would have the same basic attitude as when cutting - i.e. complex carbs before and after workout (and it does NOT matter if the WO is at night). However, I would be less restricive - i.e. if you want some with other meals fine, just don't go overboard with the non-veg carbs. An I would also increase the amount of carbs pre- and post WO over what you would have cutting.

You have PWO, then 2 meals before bed, so cabs pre-WO, PWO and the meal after would be good, then fat/protein (+ possibily a smaller amount of carbs) before bed.

Fruit and veg at other times. Breakfast is debatable, but I do mainly fat/pro myself because I sit at a desk all day.

Other than that, it could be a matter of calories.

That's what I do for a clean bulk anyway.

Hi all,

In reply to Gordo's post...

Any idea your %bf before you started the bulk?

About 10 to 11 percent.

Have you been doing 4X8 for 4 months straight?

No not at all, I only recently started that particular set rep range. Before that I did TBT for months.

In reply to NEdge's post...

Breakfast is debatable, but I do mainly fat/pro myself because I sit at a desk all day.

I too sit behind a desk all day... what do you eat for breakfast?

I am going to tweak my plan tonight and see what I can come up with. Will keep you all posted.

Thanks for the replies once again... :tucool:

Ok,

Here is the first draught of the new meal plan...

At first glance I thought it was too much protein but it works out at about 1.3 grams per pound of body weight, the carbs are however very low at 1.5 grams per pound of body weight. :eek:

I will also have two or so pieces of fruit during the day (usually an apple and an orange or banana) so that adds 49 carbs and 190 calories to the daily total.

6:30am (120 Cals, 1 Fat, 3 Carbs, 24 Protein)
1 Scoop ON Whey in Water

7:00am (448 Cals, 11 Fat, 52 Carbs, 41 Protein)
1/2 Cup Oats
1/4 Cup Bran
1/2 Cup Skim Milk
20g Flax Seeds
1 Scoop ON Whey

10:00am (159 Cals, 2 Fat, 7 Carbs, 29 Protein)
2 Cups Lettuce Salad
1/2 Can Tuna
50g Nonfat Cottage Cheese

12:30pm (482 Cals, 14 Fat, 41 Carbs, 53 Protein)
130g Chicken Breast
2 Cups Broccoli
1/2 Cup Brown Rice
1/2 Tbsp Olive Oil

3:00pm (350 Cals, 4 Fat, 67 Carbs, 16 Protein)
1 Cup Nonfat Milk
1/2 Cup Oats
1 Medium Banana

6:00pm (288 Cals, 4 Fat, 42 Carbs, 30 Protein)
1 Scoop ON Whey
1/2 Cup Oats
12g Dextrose

7:00pm (515 Cals, 16 Fat, 51 Carbs, 41 Protein)
1/2 Can Tuna
1 Whole Egg
2 Egg Whites
2 Cups Lettuce Salad
1/2 Tbsp Flaxseed Oil
1 Cup Brown Rice

10:00pm (169 Cals, 5 Fat, 15 Carbs, 17 Protein)
1 Cup Nonfat Milk
1/2 Tbsp Peanut Butter
50g Nonfat Cottage Cheese

Daily Total: 2721 Cals, 58 Fat, 327 Carbs, 252 Protein (incl. Fruit)

I really feel that this is too little... I have lost a kilo during the last week using the old plan at 3200 cals so I really dont know what to do. :confused:

Hi all,

Sadly no more comments... :rolleyes:

I have one so here goes...

The current plan has three scoops of whey in it. Two in the morning and one in the afternoon. Would it not be better to have just the one in the morning one in afternoon and one at night?

Seems a bit more balanced that way. That said should I have the morning one in my oats or just with water immediately apon waking?

Anyone got anything to say? :tucool:

personally I'd add about 30 more grams of good fats minimum. I'm not so sure you need any more carbs.

Some suggestions

6:30 and 7:00 are way too close together. Drop 6:30.
at 10:00 I'd include about 4g of fish oils and some maybe 15g of almonds

At 12:30 have about 100g of chicken breast and put some of the balance in cottage cheese at 10pm
at 3:00 you have no "quality" protein source. Add in a 1/2 can of tuna or 90g Chicken or something.
A good spot for a little fat here (1/2 TB of oilve oil or 1/4 avocado etc...)
Move the milk to 6:00 PWO

Forget the Whey at night and opt for some other protein source.

The current plan has three scoops of whey in it. Two in the morning and one in the afternoon. Would it not be better to have just the one in the morning one in afternoon and one at night?

Seems a bit more balanced that way. That said should I have the morning one in my oats or just with water immediately apon waking?

Anyone got anything to say? :tucool:

Well, you might want to move that 7am scoop of whey to 10am, as you're already doing a scoop at 6:30. I think that would flatten things out a bit.

Other than that, I don't know. Every body is a bit different, which is why it helps to able to track and see the trends of your own body according to different stimulus. Tweaking is the hard part, but keep at it. It sounds like you're doing great!
:bb:

While you did get a lot of good advice for your diet in this thread, it might be that some weight gainage is ineveitable for a FFB. You seem to be a pretty ripped guy at 5'9" 187 with 10%-11% body fat, so why not just do your bulk peroid, then do a cut?

Is it really a worthwhile endevour to really WORRY about something like this while on a bulk for you? It might just cause some undue stress anyways. It won't hurt to follow some of the advice on this thread, but you might wanna consider just worrying about your bulk during your bulk.

Hi there,

Quick post, gotta go to bed... :sleep:

Is it really a worthwhile endevour to really WORRY about something like this while on a bulk for you?

Thank you for that, you have put my thoughts into words. I was saying to my better half tonight that I can't understand why I started to stress so much. I am on a bulk after all and doing quite well I might add.

I got into a situation where stressing about my diet nearly cost me my family and I nearly ended up there again over the last couple of days. I really appreciate everyone's advice and I have learned quite a bit from it all. I have made some tweaks regarding carb timing but am not going to make any other major changes just yet.

I plan on starting a cut at the beginning of September so we will see how things go till then.

Thank you all once again for your valuable input... :tu:

Ok,



Daily Total: 2721 Cals, 58 Fat, 327 Carbs, 252 Protein (incl. Fruit)

I really feel that this is too little... I have lost a kilo during the last week using the old plan at 3200 cals so I really dont know what to do. :confused:


I know you said you wern't going to make any more major changes, but perhaps for future reference, I think this is too high in carbs, too low in fat, even for bulking, for 'FFB' (if you are one). I don't know if I qualify myself (lost ~60lb of fat), but I do put on fat easily, although I do seem to be able to cut reasonably well now too.

Even on a bulk, I'm closer to 20/40/40 and I think perhaps something like 100g fat, 250g carbs and 250g pro might make a difference.

But that does mean a rather large change to your overal diet and certainly I'm not going to suggest the difference is worth loosing your family over!


FYI, since you asked, my breakfast is Eggwhite omelete with onion, mushrooms, green peper and beef (top round or similar). I add ground flax seeds (1 tbsp or ~65kcal worth) to the eggwhite and top it with green chilli after fipping it in the pan. For maintanance and bulking I melt some stong tasting cheese on the top before adding the chilli. Also, when bulking I sometimes treat myself by adding 1/4 cup of ground oats to the eggwhite and eating the 'omelete' with a bit of ketchup. Without the oats, it's about 18-20g carbs, so not zero carb, but not loads.

If I workout in the morning before breakfast, I simply replace the flax with ground oats and leave out the cheese, for my PWO meal.

Ok so in closing... I have an obsession but I feel better know. I have workout out my meal plan in detail. It may not be perfect but I have made some tweaks based you all of your input. :tucool:

I will continue to tweak and see how things go. I have started an excel document to track my weight and measurements.

Attached is an excel document with my meal plan if anyone is interested in looking. :tu:

Once again, thanks for all your help, I'm sure it wont be the last time and I will try to return the favour if I can.