Lets preface this with a quick diet note: I havent been counting cals but im sure that they are close to the 2600 goal that I'm looking for. I'm up to around 5 meals per day with about 550 cals a pop but i dont write it down, not yet atleast. I think im training my body pretty well because McDonalds isnt as inticing to me as it once was and a cold bottle of water is my best friend. Just to give you an example of where I am, I used to be able to drink a gallon of off-brand, High fructose corn syrup filled fruit drink (not juice, drink) and yesterday, a friend and i went to baha fresh and I got a small Fruitopia fruit punch... I could literally FEEL my arteries fill with red 6 and sugar. Pass me a bottle of deer park... I need to incorporate more veggies but i cut a lotta thigs out, i just need to start counting... but anyway...:whistle:

Ok, im proud of myself (even thought im not seeing many results, im tryna be positive and patient).

My first two days of working out: June 12 and 13, 2006
DAY ONE - UPPER
--Bike for 10 mins
--Row (machine) 100lbs x 10 reps X 3 sets
--Lat Pulldown (machine) 87.5lbs x 10 x 3
--Chest Press (machine) 100lbs x 10 x 2
--Overhead Press (machine) 75lbs x 8reps, 62.5lbs x 6
--Arm Extension (machine) 75lbs x 10 x 3
--Ab crunches (machine) 150lbs x 10 x 3
--Concentrated Curls (free weights) 25lbs x 10 x 2 (each arm)
--Side Crunches (floor) 10 reps x 3 sets
DAY TWO - LOWER
--Seated Leg Press (machine) 450 lbs x 10 reps x 3 sets
--Seated Leg Curl (machine) 130 lbs x 10 x 2, 130 lbs x 3 reps
--Leg Extensions (machine) 87.5 lbs x 10 x 3
--Standing Calf Raises (machine) 140 lbs x 10 x 3

Now the last two days I did: June 29, and July 1, 2006
DAY ONE - LOWER
--Seated Leg Press (machine) 505 lbs x 10 reps x 3 sets
--Seated Leg Curl (machine) 150 lbs x 10 x 3
--Leg Extensions (machine) 150 lbs x 10 x 3
--Standing Calf Raises (machine) 160 lbs 10 x 3
--Walking Lounges (free weights) 30 lbs in each hand, 3 sets of walking 10 steps (5 leftfoot steps, 5 rightfoot steps)
--Squats (barbell) 115 lbs x 10 x 3
DAY TWO
--Concentrated Curl (free weights) 30 lbs x 10 x 3
--Hammer Curls (free weights) 30 lbs x 10 x 2, 30 lbs x 5 reps
--Overhead Press (free weight) 25 lbs x 10 x 3
--Arm Circles (standing) 40 reps
--Arm Extensions (machine) 87.5 lbs x 10 reps, 87.5 lbs x 5 reps
--Shrugs (free weights) 50 lbs x 10 x 3
--Lat Pulldowns (machine) 100 lbs x 10 x 3
--Row (machine) 112.5 lbs 10 x 3
--Bench Press (barbell) 95 lbs x 10 x 3
--Crunches (machine) 150 lbs x 20 reps x 3 sets
--Forearm Flexxors (free weights) 15 lbs x 10 x 3

I need some pointers on my work out because as much progress as I feel i have made, i still want to ween off of the machines. They seem boring to me and free weights and barbells make me feel like I'm making more progress (whether I actually am or not). Here are a few questions:

1. Are squats supposed to be so uncomfortable on your neck? I mean since ive started duing squats, tomorrow will be my third day, I have really liked them and I can understand why everyone swears by them so hard, but its uncomfortable on my neck. Even with the lil cushion they have on the bar, its still not fun.:nope:

2. When you squat or press or anything else with a barbell, do you count the bar's weight when map your stats? for instance is a 35 on each side 70 lbs or 115 lbs?:bb:

3. I've gotten into the habit of doing this thing, which may or may not have a name, where if I do an exercise that wasnt particular exhausting, one that i would have to increase for next time, I put the weight higher and attempt to do one or two. Usually i cant get it up all the way and I hold it for as long as i can before putting it down, in an attempt to fatigue the muscle, so that I couldnt do another curl or bench press of Jesus himself told me to (excuse the blasphemy). I read in a thread that rest after absolute fatigue was when the muscle developed the most. To continue or not to continue is the question? It is rather fulfilling to have every muscle you worked out be tired as hell, atleast for like 15 mins afterwards, for the walk to the car. But is it a waste of time or a good idea?

General comments are welcomed and appreciated greatly. Thanks guys:bow:

Lets preface this with a quick diet note: I havent been counting cals but im sure that they are close to the 2600 goal that I'm looking for. I'm up to around 5 meals per day with about 550 cals a pop but i dont write it down, not yet atleast. I think im training my body pretty well because McDonalds isnt as inticing to me as it once was and a cold bottle of water is my best friend. Just to give you an example of where I am, I used to be able to drink a gallon of off-brand, High fructose corn syrup filled fruit drink (not juice, drink) and yesterday, a friend and i went to baha fresh and I got a small Fruitopia fruit punch... I could literally FEEL my arteries fill with red 6 and sugar. Pass me a bottle of deer park... I need to incorporate more veggies but i cut a lotta thigs out, i just need to start counting... but anyway...:whistle:

Ok, im proud of myself (even thought im not seeing many results, im tryna be positive and patient).

My first two days of working out: June 12 and 13, 2006
DAY ONE - UPPER
--Bike for 10 mins
--Row (machine) 100lbs x 10 reps X 3 sets
--Lat Pulldown (machine) 87.5lbs x 10 x 3
--Chest Press (machine) 100lbs x 10 x 2
--Overhead Press (machine) 75lbs x 8reps, 62.5lbs x 6
--Arm Extension (machine) 75lbs x 10 x 3
--Ab crunches (machine) 150lbs x 10 x 3
--Concentrated Curls (free weights) 25lbs x 10 x 2 (each arm)
--Side Crunches (floor) 10 reps x 3 sets
DAY TWO - LOWER
--Seated Leg Press (machine) 450 lbs x 10 reps x 3 sets
--Seated Leg Curl (machine) 130 lbs x 10 x 2, 130 lbs x 3 reps
--Leg Extensions (machine) 87.5 lbs x 10 x 3
--Standing Calf Raises (machine) 140 lbs x 10 x 3

Now the last two days I did: June 29, and July 1, 2006
DAY ONE - LOWER
--Seated Leg Press (machine) 505 lbs x 10 reps x 3 sets
--Seated Leg Curl (machine) 150 lbs x 10 x 3
--Leg Extensions (machine) 150 lbs x 10 x 3
--Standing Calf Raises (machine) 160 lbs 10 x 3
--Walking Lounges (free weights) 30 lbs in each hand, 3 sets of walking 10 steps (5 leftfoot steps, 5 rightfoot steps)
--Squats (barbell) 115 lbs x 10 x 3
DAY TWO
--Concentrated Curl (free weights) 30 lbs x 10 x 3
--Hammer Curls (free weights) 30 lbs x 10 x 2, 30 lbs x 5 reps
--Overhead Press (free weight) 25 lbs x 10 x 3
--Arm Circles (standing) 40 reps
--Arm Extensions (machine) 87.5 lbs x 10 reps, 87.5 lbs x 5 reps
--Shrugs (free weights) 50 lbs x 10 x 3
--Lat Pulldowns (machine) 100 lbs x 10 x 3
--Row (machine) 112.5 lbs 10 x 3
--Bench Press (barbell) 95 lbs x 10 x 3
--Crunches (machine) 150 lbs x 20 reps x 3 sets
--Forearm Flexxors (free weights) 15 lbs x 10 x 3

I need some pointers on my work out because as much progress as I feel i have made, i still want to ween off of the machines. They seem boring to me and free weights and barbells make me feel like I'm making more progress (whether I actually am or not). Here are a few questions:

Regarding your current workout days:

1. I think you need to use more weight on your Standing Calf Raises. If you're able to leg extend and curl 150 pounds, then you should be able to calf raise significantly more than 160 (unless there is an injury or personal issue there.)

2. I would change concentration curls to standing barbell curls.

3. Might wanna incorporate deadlifts.

4. I guess arm extensions would hit triceps - are these the overhead machine variety or the pushdown machine variety? For triceps, I'd do cable pushdowns, skull crushers, and maybe some sort of assisted bodyweight dip or the hammer dip machine that you can add weight to.

5. On leg day, throw in some calf raises on the leg press sled.

1. Are squats supposed to be so uncomfortable on your neck? I mean since ive started duing squats, tomorrow will be my third day, I have really liked them and I can understand why everyone swears by them so hard, but its uncomfortable on my neck. Even with the lil cushion they have on the bar, its still not fun.:nope:

Are you sure the barbell is across your middle trapezius and rear delts and NOT your neck? I'm willing to bet that your barbell position is a bit too high, thus giving you the uncomfortable sensation.

2. When you squat or press or anything else with a barbell, do you count the bar's weight when map your stats? for instance is a 35 on each side 70 lbs or 115 lbs?:bb:

Anything with a standard barbell will be considered the total plate weight plus 45 pounds. A smith machine barbell is generally 35 pounds.

3. I've gotten into the habit of doing this thing, which may or may not have a name, where if I do an exercise that wasnt particular exhausting, one that i would have to increase for next time, I put the weight higher and attempt to do one or two. Usually i cant get it up all the way and I hold it for as long as i can before putting it down, in an attempt to fatigue the muscle, so that I couldnt do another curl or bench press of Jesus himself told me to (excuse the blasphemy). I read in a thread that rest after absolute fatigue was when the muscle developed the most. To continue or not to continue is the question? It is rather fulfilling to have every muscle you worked out be tired as hell, atleast for like 15 mins afterwards, for the walk to the car. But is it a waste of time or a good idea?

I like to fatigue myself during each training session because I only hit any given muscle group (targeted) once a week. I want to leave the gym knowing I worked. So for me, I'm all for squeezing out an extra one "to grow on." It's personal preference here.

General comments are welcomed and appreciated greatly. Thanks guys:bow:

Keep it up man! :tu:

On the nutritional side - track calories consumed.

1. I think you need to use more weight on your Standing Calf Raises. If you're able to leg extend and curl 150 pounds, then you should be able to calf raise significantly more than 160 (unless there is an injury or personal issue there.)


well i think its because when you do calf raises you have to lift the 160lbs in weight and my own 330 lbs, but in SEATED leg raises and SEATED leg extensions there is significantly less resistance. But im a novice so that could be erroneous. teach me the ways of the weight, lol:D

2. I would change concentration curls to standing barbell curls.

3. Might wanna incorporate deadlifts.

4. I guess arm extensions would hit triceps - are these the overhead machine variety or the pushdown machine variety? For triceps, I'd do cable pushdowns, skull crushers, and maybe some sort of assisted bodyweight dip or the hammer dip machine that you can add weight to.

5. On leg day, throw in some calf raises on the leg press sled.



Will do... is there anything else you would suggest? any muscles i may be missing? how do you feel about my progress? normal, slow, fast?

well i think its because when you do calf raises you have to lift the 160lbs in weight and my own 330 lbs, but in SEATED leg raises and SEATED leg extensions there is significantly less resistance. But im a novice so that could be erroneous. teach me the ways of the weight, lol:D?

Very true. I didn't think of that. In that case - definitely add in the Leg Press Sled Calf Raises :)

Will do... is there anything else you would suggest? any muscles i may be missing? how do you feel about my progress? normal, slow, fast

I think "progress" is a pretty personal issue when it comes to bodybuilding and fitness. From what I've read so far, it seems that you've been making the gradual nutritional changes that will be needed for the long road ahead. It certainly seems that you're comfortable in the gym and can navigate those waters pretty well. I'd say for a first 2-4 weeks, you're doing great!

Like I said, start keeping a food journal - at least for 1 solid week. If you feel like your two session full body workout is not yielding max results after a while, you may want to start researching various splits for your workouts or other full body workouts to do. At this stage, I certainly say keep that nutrition clean and cardio going.

Holla!

Lets preface this with a quick diet note: I havent been counting cals but im sure that they are close to the 2600 goal that I'm looking for. I'm up to around 5 meals per day with about 550 cals a pop but i dont write it down, not yet atleast. I think im training my body pretty well because McDonalds isnt as inticing to me as it once was and a cold bottle of water is my best friend. Just to give you an example of where I am, I used to be able to drink a gallon of off-brand, High fructose corn syrup filled fruit drink (not juice, drink) and yesterday, a friend and i went to baha fresh and I got a small Fruitopia fruit punch... I could literally FEEL my arteries fill with red 6 and sugar. Pass me a bottle of deer park... I need to incorporate more veggies but i cut a lotta thigs out, i just need to start counting... but anyway...:whistle:

Ok, im proud of myself (even thought im not seeing many results, im tryna be positive and patient).

My first two days of working out: June 12 and 13, 2006
DAY ONE - UPPER
--Bike for 10 mins
--Row (machine) 100lbs x 10 reps X 3 sets
--Lat Pulldown (machine) 87.5lbs x 10 x 3
--Chest Press (machine) 100lbs x 10 x 2
--Overhead Press (machine) 75lbs x 8reps, 62.5lbs x 6
--Arm Extension (machine) 75lbs x 10 x 3
--Ab crunches (machine) 150lbs x 10 x 3
--Concentrated Curls (free weights) 25lbs x 10 x 2 (each arm)
--Side Crunches (floor) 10 reps x 3 sets
DAY TWO - LOWER
--Seated Leg Press (machine) 450 lbs x 10 reps x 3 sets
--Seated Leg Curl (machine) 130 lbs x 10 x 2, 130 lbs x 3 reps
--Leg Extensions (machine) 87.5 lbs x 10 x 3
--Standing Calf Raises (machine) 140 lbs x 10 x 3

Now the last two days I did: June 29, and July 1, 2006
DAY ONE - LOWER
--Seated Leg Press (machine) 505 lbs x 10 reps x 3 sets
--Seated Leg Curl (machine) 150 lbs x 10 x 3
--Leg Extensions (machine) 150 lbs x 10 x 3
--Standing Calf Raises (machine) 160 lbs 10 x 3
--Walking Lounges (free weights) 30 lbs in each hand, 3 sets of walking 10 steps (5 leftfoot steps, 5 rightfoot steps)
--Squats (barbell) 115 lbs x 10 x 3
DAY TWO
--Concentrated Curl (free weights) 30 lbs x 10 x 3
--Hammer Curls (free weights) 30 lbs x 10 x 2, 30 lbs x 5 reps
--Overhead Press (free weight) 25 lbs x 10 x 3
--Arm Circles (standing) 40 reps
--Arm Extensions (machine) 87.5 lbs x 10 reps, 87.5 lbs x 5 reps
--Shrugs (free weights) 50 lbs x 10 x 3
--Lat Pulldowns (machine) 100 lbs x 10 x 3
--Row (machine) 112.5 lbs 10 x 3
--Bench Press (barbell) 95 lbs x 10 x 3
--Crunches (machine) 150 lbs x 20 reps x 3 sets
--Forearm Flexxors (free weights) 15 lbs x 10 x 3

I need some pointers on my work out because as much progress as I feel i have made, i still want to ween off of the machines. They seem boring to me and free weights and barbells make me feel like I'm making more progress (whether I actually am or not). Here are a few questions:

1. Are squats supposed to be so uncomfortable on your neck? I mean since ive started duing squats, tomorrow will be my third day, I have really liked them and I can understand why everyone swears by them so hard, but its uncomfortable on my neck. Even with the lil cushion they have on the bar, its still not fun.:nope:

2. When you squat or press or anything else with a barbell, do you count the bar's weight when map your stats? for instance is a 35 on each side 70 lbs or 115 lbs?:bb:

3. I've gotten into the habit of doing this thing, which may or may not have a name, where if I do an exercise that wasnt particular exhausting, one that i would have to increase for next time, I put the weight higher and attempt to do one or two. Usually i cant get it up all the way and I hold it for as long as i can before putting it down, in an attempt to fatigue the muscle, so that I couldnt do another curl or bench press of Jesus himself told me to (excuse the blasphemy). I read in a thread that rest after absolute fatigue was when the muscle developed the most. To continue or not to continue is the question? It is rather fulfilling to have every muscle you worked out be tired as hell, atleast for like 15 mins afterwards, for the walk to the car. But is it a waste of time or a good idea?

General comments are welcomed and appreciated greatly. Thanks guys:bow:

1. Make sure you use a fairly narrow grip and push your chest out to create a shelf for the bar.

2. Include the bar weight.

3. Not necessary at this stage but if you really enjoy it do it. I guess you can call them cluster/pyramid set but i'm not totally clear want your doing.

I think you should decrease the amount of excercises per session.

eg.

Lower - squat, leg curls, lunge, stiff legged deadlift
Upper - bench, cable row, military press, lat pulldown

I you really want to see results you need to start counting the calories and get the diet right.

I'm of the opinion that people ask about lifting routine because it's the easiest thing to throw an opinion out on. Take this exercise out, put this exercise in.

If you're cutting use this time to get used to free weights and doing everything with proper form. Experiment a little in the gym and search around for exercises that really hit you just right. There's a lot of exercise encylopedias on-line. Don't worry about doing a new exercise and looking a little goofy or doing it wrong. Just do it the best that you can and practice and you'll feel when you're doing it right after awhile. It normally takes me two workouts or more before I'm comfortable in an exercise.

If you look at the way John does his routine that's how I'd recommend. A very loose program is good because it keeps your body adapting. Use compound exercises and hit each muscle group with two or three exercises once a week.

You're trying to loose fat. Keeping muscle is essiential to that but you're more than likely not going to see huge gains in weight or lean mass eating on a restricted diet.

Some opinions and ideas...
Now the last two days I did: June 29, and July 1, 2006
DAY ONE - LOWER
--Seated Leg Press (machine) 505 lbs x 10 reps x 3 sets
--Seated Leg Curl (machine) 150 lbs x 10 x 3
--Leg Extensions (machine) 150 lbs x 10 x 3
--Standing Calf Raises (machine) 160 lbs 10 x 3
--Walking Lounges (free weights) 30 lbs in each hand, 3 sets of walking 10 steps (5 leftfoot steps, 5 rightfoot steps)
--Squats (barbell) 115 lbs x 10 x 3
-Do squats first. Or, use leg extensions as a warmup only (do just a couple of light sets), then move to squats, then leg press, then leg curl, then walking lunges, and finally calf raises.

-If standing calf raises give you even the slightest problems with your back, stop doing them immediately and instead use the leg press machine for calf raises.

DAY TWO
--Concentrated Curl (free weights) 30 lbs x 10 x 3
--Hammer Curls (free weights) 30 lbs x 10 x 2, 30 lbs x 5 reps
--Overhead Press (free weight) 25 lbs x 10 x 3
--Arm Circles (standing) 40 reps
--Arm Extensions (machine) 87.5 lbs x 10 reps, 87.5 lbs x 5 reps
--Shrugs (free weights) 50 lbs x 10 x 3
--Lat Pulldowns (machine) 100 lbs x 10 x 3
--Row (machine) 112.5 lbs 10 x 3
--Bench Press (barbell) 95 lbs x 10 x 3
--Crunches (machine) 150 lbs x 20 reps x 3 sets
--Forearm Flexxors (free weights) 15 lbs x 10 x 3
-Change order of muscles worked. Typically I like working from large muscles to small muscles. In other words, this order would be better: back, chest, shoulders, triceps, biceps.

-I might move abs to day 1.

-I would remove concentraion curls and use straight bar (barbell) curls.

-What are arm circles and arm extensions? What muscles do they work?

1. Are squats supposed to be so uncomfortable on your neck? I mean since ive started duing squats, tomorrow will be my third day, I have really liked them and I can understand why everyone swears by them so hard, but its uncomfortable on my neck. Even with the lil cushion they have on the bar, its still not fun.:nope:
Work with just the bar only and find the proper placement. The bar should not be on your neck but more across the traps.

2. When you squat or press or anything else with a barbell, do you count the bar's weight when map your stats? for instance is a 35 on each side 70 lbs or 115 lbs?:bb:
Yes, I like to count the bar weight but this is really just up to you. It doesn't matter as long as you are consistent in your workout logs. So let's say you have a 45 pound plate on each side, and that the barbell weighs 45 pounds. In your workout journal/log you would write "Squats: 135lbs."

3. I've gotten into the habit of doing this thing, which may or may not have a name, where if I do an exercise that wasnt particular exhausting, one that i would have to increase for next time, I put the weight higher and attempt to do one or two. Usually i cant get it up all the way and I hold it for as long as i can before putting it down, in an attempt to fatigue the muscle, so that I couldnt do another curl or bench press of Jesus himself told me to (excuse the blasphemy). I read in a thread that rest after absolute fatigue was when the muscle developed the most. To continue or not to continue is the question? It is rather fulfilling to have every muscle you worked out be tired as hell, atleast for like 15 mins afterwards, for the walk to the car. But is it a waste of time or a good idea?
It's a matter of opinion. I will do partial reps and squeezes and what not once in a while, but most of the time I'll just note in my workout log that I need to increase weight the next time I do the workout and I won't go any further.

So, I probably would not do what you do on a regular basis, but again it's a matter of opinion. It's one of those things where I'd just say if you're seeing results then that's all that matters. :)

1. Are squats supposed to be so uncomfortable on your neck? I mean since ive started duing squats, tomorrow will be my third day, I have really liked them and I can understand why everyone swears by them so hard, but its uncomfortable on my neck. Even with the lil cushion they have on the bar, its still not fun.

I think you should be careful on form with squats. Yes, they are a great workout, but its easy to have an accident, and even easier to strain your back. Attempt to touch your elbows behind your back when you are setting the bar. You might need to get more flexibility in your chest, shoulders, and lats, so maybe strech these a little pre-workout(Weird how you stretch upperbody for a leg workout huh?) Do a couple of reps with just the bar so you can check your form. I used to get a bruise too. When I changed, I started getting 2 bruises on both my traps instead, but that was only temporary. Getting the bar set better will probably put less stress on your back and allow you to work out your legs more.

I'd also like to advise stretching your hip flexors and obliques on this exercise. Do a lunge next to the stretching bar some sort of support you can put ur weight on, and focus on stretching the side that has your leg behind you. This also helps your balance when doing squats.

For squats, get rid of the little cushion thing and drop the bar lower on your lower traps, across the rear delts. Don't rest the bar on your neck.

You're doing too many unnecessary movements which will stall your progress. If I were in your shoes, and wished to do a lower/upper split it would look more like this:

LOWER:
Squats: 6-8 sets of 8-12 reps including warmups
Stiff Leg Deadlifts (alternate between BB and DB each week: 4-6 sets of 6-10 reps
Standing Calf Raise: 2 sets of 12-15 reps
Seated Calf Raise: 2 sets of 20 reps

UPPER:
Incline DB or BB Press: warmup then 3 sets of 8-10 reps
BB Rows: 3 sets of 8-12 reps
Standing DB or BB Military Press: 3 sets of 6-8 reps
BB Curl: 2 sets of 8-12 reps
Dips: 2 sets of 6-10 reps

Once you complete all the prescribed reps with the weight used in good form, increase the weight very gradually for next session.

Additionally, I would focus more of my attention to your nutrition. How you eat will determine whether or not a training routine becomes effective.

Please list your diet.

I think "progress" is a pretty personal issue when it comes to bodybuilding and fitness. From what I've read so far, it seems that you've been making the gradual nutritional changes that will be needed for the long road ahead. It certainly seems that you're comfortable in the gym and can navigate those waters pretty well. I'd say for a first 2-4 weeks, you're doing great!


Thanx man. Im gonna start loging my eating. its just so hard because by the time i remember its already like 5pm and ive already forgotten what i had at 8.

I think you should decrease the amount of excercises per session.

eg.

Lower - squat, leg curls, lunge, stiff legged deadlift
Upper - bench, cable row, military press, lat pulldown

i dont think i understand. Doesnt that example miss groups? maybe not, it just seems so simple.

I you really want to see results you need to start counting the calories and get the diet right.

....

You're trying to loose fat. Keeping muscle is essiential to that but you're more than likely not going to see huge gains in weight or lean mass eating on a restricted diet.

im working on that part :claphigh: what do you mean that im not going to see lean mass eating on a restricted diet?? what does that mean? how does it apply to me?


-Do squats first. Or, use leg extensions as a warmup only (do just a couple of light sets), then move to squats, then leg press, then leg curl, then walking lunges, and finally calf raises.

....

-Change order of muscles worked. Typically I like working from large muscles to small muscles. In other words, this order would be better: back, chest, shoulders, triceps, biceps.


I did that at the gym today. not because i saw your post, because im just now seeing it afterwards, but i did it because all the weights and machines were taken. i did squats first and everything else was like 3 times harder than normal. GOOD ADVICE PROFESSOR GTX:madpimp:


-I would remove concentraion curls and use straight bar (barbell) curls.


whats the difference? (in muscle development or effectiveness)


-What are arm circles and arm extensions? What muscles do they work?


Arm circles are when your span your arms all the way out, so your body is T-shaped, and you make circles, approx. 8 inches in diameter. It works your shoulders and traps. Arm extensions arethis (http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Triceps/DBTriExt.html). atleast thats what I do...

I think you should be careful on form with squats. Yes, they are a great workout, but its easy to have an accident, and even easier to strain your back. Attempt to touch your elbows behind your back when you are setting the bar. You might need to get more flexibility in your chest, shoulders, and lats, so maybe strech these a little pre-workout(Weird how you stretch upperbody for a leg workout huh?) Do a couple of reps with just the bar so you can check your form. I used to get a bruise too. When I changed, I started getting 2 bruises on both my traps instead, but that was only temporary. Getting the bar set better will probably put less stress on your back and allow you to work out your legs more.

I'd also like to advise stretching your hip flexors and obliques on this exercise. Do a lunge next to the stretching bar some sort of support you can put ur weight on, and focus on stretching the side that has your leg behind you. This also helps your balance when doing squats.

Thanx, I'm gonna see if someone at the gym will show me if I'm doing them correctly. when i did them today, it felt great, but my balance was off sometimes.

You're doing too many unnecessary movements which will stall your progress.

i dont think i understand what you mean? do you mean i shouldnt work my triceps and biceps alone?

Thanx man. Im gonna start loging my eating. its just so hard because by the time i remember its already like 5pm and ive already forgotten what i had at 8.

If you have access to a computer all day then FitDay (http://www.fitday.com) is a great place to do this. Also, just an Excel spreadsheet with the approximate portion sizes and information of what you ate works. Then later in the day, you can go through it all and use CalorieKing (http://www.calorieking.com) to find the nutritional info for it.


I think you should decrease the amount of excercises per session.

eg.

Lower - squat, leg curls, lunge, stiff legged deadlift
Upper - bench, cable row, military press, lat pulldown
i dont think i understand. Doesnt that example miss groups? maybe not, it just seems so simple.

I feel what canada is saying here. Incorporate the key compound movements (might wanna read the Max-OT PDF to get a better idea of these) while minimzing a whole, whole lot of isolation work. I say keep some of the other stuff you're doing as well. Might warrant a new thread to fully get input and customize your training routine.

im working on that part :claphigh: what do you mean that im not going to see lean mass eating on a restricted diet?? what does that mean? how does it apply to me?

Well you have to learn your body here and see what works. The ideal mix is to lose fat and gain muscle. In order to do this, you'll have to take weekly measurements and keep stats pretty maticulously. Then your macronutrient ratios, daily caloric intake, and other variables can be adjusted to find the best mix for you.


I did that at the gym today. not because i saw your post, because im just now seeing it afterwards, but i did it because all the weights and machines were taken. i did squats first and everything else was like 3 times harder than normal. GOOD ADVICE PROFESSOR GTX:madpimp:

Chris (1FastGTX) knows his stuff man. What he says is generally golden. Certainly lift from biggest to smallest, compound to isolation 90% of the time you're in the gym. Sure it's okay to switch things up once in a while, but large to small is a good rule of thumb ;)


-I would remove concentraion curls and use straight bar (barbell) curls.
whats the difference? (in muscle development or effectiveness)

Barbell Curls allow you to really overload the amount of weight you use since you're doing both arms at once. Again, this is a Max-OT principle that you may want to read up on (search for the PDF here on the forums.) I swear by Short Barbell Bicep curls and have gotten excellent results from them. There is a chance you may be recruiting more right arm than left arm (or vice versa) in doing this, but you'll still be curling more weight than if you were to do them concentrated. Once again, after you train with this type of movement for a while, you can always change things up. I keep Short Barbell Bicep Curls as a staple in my routine though.

Arm circles are when your span your arms all the way out, so your body is T-shaped, and you make circles, approx. 8 inches in diameter. It works your shoulders and traps. Arm extensions arethis (http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Triceps/DBTriExt.html). atleast thats what I do...

I'd use the Arm Circles as more of a warm-up movement than strength builder. The replacement movement(s) I'd do for the muscle building would be:

- Curl Bar (or Short/Regular Barbell) Upright Rows: Lateral Delts, Traps, Forearms
- Dumbbell Lateral Raises: Lateral Delts
- Dumbbell Rear Delt Row: Rear Delts

I think I commented before about Tricep work for you:

- Cable Pushdowns
- Dips (Assisted or Hammer Strength Dip Machine if available)
- Skull Crushers


Thanx, I'm gonna see if someone at the gym will show me if I'm doing them correctly. when i did them today, it felt great, but my balance was off sometimes.

I'm not a squat master, but yes - learn how to do them correctly. Have the best squatter at your gym (not necessarily the one using the most weight) but the one with the most straight back, head up, and butt low to check your form and give you tips.

i dont think i understand what you mean? do you mean i shouldnt work my triceps and biceps alone?

Again, this is what canada was saying above. Focus on compound, heavy, basic movements with some isolation work to really gain muscle and blast fat. Again, you may want to start a new thread for a full workout routine critique and customization...

Do your thing-thing.

The big compound exercises mastover and canada are recommending you simplify to are generally the big movers, and involve lots of muscle groups in addition to the primary groups. So, you get more bang for the buck.

Do 25 reps of squats and then do 25 curls and tell me which has your body doing more work in the same period of time.

Things like deadlifts will work your core strength, arms, shoulders, posterior chain (hamstrings, glutes, low back), grip strength, etc. So you aren't ignoring the other areas, you are just not focusing on them.

Most of your exercises should IMO involve more than one joint, or be "compound" to get the most out of your gym time. Worry about isolation for trouble areas but not as a primary focus of your workouts.

I meant that while it's possible to grow muscle mass while cutting it's not your primary goal. The primary goal is to lose fat. I get frustrated sometimes going into the gym and not seeing my lifts go up. I've got to remind myself that I'm not doing this to build up muscle and that there will be a time for that when I get to the end of my cut. All I meant was don't be afraid to try different routines and different exercises for fear of not getting in enough lifting done. If you experiment and try to learn more than just pump pump pump it will benefit you more when you are at a bulking phase and you know what exercises feel best and how to do a variety of things.

At least that's my idea of it. I've been cutting for awhile and always get frustrated at the snail's pace of how my lifts progress. I have to step back and say "Your body is not conditioned to build strength now." So in your position just starting out don't be afraid to switch out exercises and try new and exciting things because deviating from a routine a little now isn't going to make or break you.

Mass, click on this link to my JUly 4th workout:

http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?t=29443

These are the exercises you want to perform and get good with. (Albeit, not all in the same day!! Remember, this was a special holiday workout ;) )

Split them up into a 3 day routine if you wish, but I guarantee if you did these, slowly increasing your weights/reps, you'll see more progress in 6 months. Way more progress than if you were to do a routine based on iso movements for the next 5 years. :tu:

Yep mass, the core AKA money lifts are the best.

Legs(quad domaint) - Squats and varations, lunges, stepups etc
Legs(hip domaint) - Deadlifts and varations, good mornings, power cleans, glute ham raises, pullthroughs etc
Chest - Bench presses and varations, dips etc
Back - All row varations and pullups etc

Most beginners could use this workout for months to years and make wonderful gains.

I would say to MassPo- this is your best routine. Ditch yours and take this one. You only need the money exercises.



LOWER:
Squats: 6-8 sets of 8-12 reps including warmups
Stiff Leg Deadlifts (alternate between BB and DB each week: 4-6 sets of 6-10 reps
Standing Calf Raise: 2 sets of 12-15 reps
Seated Calf Raise: 2 sets of 20 reps

UPPER:
Incline DB or BB Press: warmup then 3 sets of 8-10 reps
BB Rows: 3 sets of 8-12 reps
Standing DB or BB Military Press: 3 sets of 6-8 reps
BB Curl: 2 sets of 8-12 reps
Dips: 2 sets of 6-10 reps

Once you complete all the prescribed reps with the weight used in good form, increase the weight very gradually for next session.

Additionally, I would focus more of my attention to your nutrition. How you eat will determine whether or not a training routine becomes effective.

Please list your diet.

Thanx guys for the responses. Didnt mean to hound anyone, i just figured tthe thread got to low on the board and no one remembered it was there. Im going to reread these tomorro and take notes. Thanx again guys, im going to start posting my dietnext week too...:tucool:

You can always repost in your own thread and just say "Bump - more opinions please" or just "Bizzump" or whatevah ;)

--Seated Leg Press (machine) 505 lbs x 10 reps x 3 sets
--Seated Leg Curl (machine) 150 lbs x 10 x 3
--Leg Extensions (machine) 150 lbs x 10 x 3
--Standing Calf Raises (machine) 160 lbs 10 x 3
--Walking Lounges (free weights) 30 lbs in each hand, 3 sets of walking 10 steps (5 leftfoot steps, 5 rightfoot steps)
--Squats (barbell) 115 lbs x 10 x 3


Seems to me that the machine leg press, leg curl, and leg extension, are a bit heavy, but the squats and lunges are light in comparison.

Is this a 45 degree leg press? That would line up a little better, but still, that press is still a lot heavier than that squat.

If you have chosen your actual 10 rep maxes for lunge and squat, then you want to focus on that. I would probably drop either the leg presses or the leg extensions in favor of dumbell split squats and step ups. As heavy dumbells as you can stand on the step ups and nearly so on the split squat.

And whichever machine you keep - leg press or leg extension - do it one leg at a time. That way neither leg can get a free ride from the other. There are lots good reasons to do the calf raises one leg at a time too - easier on your back being one of the bigger reasons.

I'm going to start incorporating some of the one leg at a time principles into my leg day. zen, you are one lower body jedi my friend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MassPotential
--Seated Leg Press (machine) 505 lbs x 10 reps x 3 sets
--Seated Leg Curl (machine) 150 lbs x 10 x 3
--Leg Extensions (machine) 150 lbs x 10 x 3
--Standing Calf Raises (machine) 160 lbs 10 x 3
--Walking Lounges (free weights) 30 lbs in each hand, 3 sets of walking 10 steps (5 leftfoot steps, 5 rightfoot steps)
--Squats (barbell) 115 lbs x 10 x 3



Seems to me that the machine leg press, leg curl, and leg extension, are a bit heavy, but the squats and lunges are light in comparison.

Is this a 45 degree leg press? That would line up a little better, but still, that press is still a lot heavier than that squat.


I'm not sure, and someone else has asked me about this before but i have a theory that may or may not make sence about that one... I weight 330lbs (well atleast i did like 6 weeks ago, thats probably not as accurate now, anyway...) and when I do lunges and squats, I have to lift whatever % of 330 is above my quads plus the 30lbs for lounges or 115lbs for squats. When I sit down and do leg presses or leg curls, i can do more weight.

Does that make sense:D ?

MP,

Almost everyone can leg press more than they can squat (barring injury of course) The leg press is on an angled machine so what you are pressing is not the true weight which is loaded onto it. Squats are a compound exercise where numerous muscle groups come into play. It is also a skill movement that takes constant practice, even for seasoned veterans. With squats, you are balancing the load on your shoulders, as well. With leg presses, the machine is balancing the weight. In the squat, your whole body,( most importantly your glutes), are moving through space thus releasing more GH and T. With the leg press, the only thing moving through space are your feet. Yes, doing heavy multiple sets of high rep leg presses will pop your eyeballs out of your face and release growth hormones, but will not establish as much total body anabolism as squats. Additionally, leg press and other machine type leg movements usually do not serve much benefit towards functional strength. Go to any NFL training camp and you'll see the players squatting.

I can leg press over 800 lbs but it will not elicit the same growth response as squats. I'll get much, much better results with 4 sets of balls to the smackin walls squats with 315 lbs for 10-15 reps, then I would with 4 sets of leg presses with 450 lbs for 10-15.

For leg presses, I like doing them as a precursor to squats, or a pre-exhaust, or I will position them last in my workout after heavy squats. Additionally, I can assure you that I would be squatting heavier weight at 182 lbs. than my current weight of 162 lbs. if the bodyfat levels were closely identical. Or even if I were at a higher BF level at 182.

Learn to LOVE THE SQUAT. It will permanently alter your body's response to training and nutrition. :tu:

:cool:

P.S. Hey zen, just curious...did that girl in your avatar just finish eating some Hoho's?? :confused:

The leg press is on an angled machine so what you are pressing is not the true weight which is loaded onto it. Squats are a compound exercise where numerous muscle groups come into play.

I can leg press over 800 lbs but it will not elicit the same growth response as squats. I'll get much, much better results with 4 sets of balls to the smackin walls squats with 315 lbs for 10-15 reps, then I would with 4 sets of leg presses with 450 lbs for 10-15.

For leg presses, I like doing them as a precursor to squats, or a pre-exhaust, or I will position them last in my workout after heavy squats. Additionally, I can assure you that I would be squatting heavier weight at 182 lbs. than my current weight of 162 lbs. if the bodyfat levels were closely identical. Or even if I were at a higher BF level at 182.

Learn to LOVE THE SQUAT. It will permanently alter your body's response to training and nutrition. :tu:

:cool:

P.S. Hey zen, just curious...did that girl in your avatar just finish eating some Hoho's?? :confused:

The leg press can also be on a machine with a vertical stack - where the weight is the true weight. The conversion between the vertical stack and 45 degree stack is 70.7% - in other words 1000 pounds of 45 degree angled weight is equivalent to 707 pounds of vertical weight. Some angled machines I think are actually 40 degrees even though people refer to them as 45 degree machines, and that conversion is 64.2% - so that 1000 pounds of 40 degree angled weight is equivalent to 642 pounds of vertical weight. The machine in my gym has a vertical stack which goes to 395 pounds. This might sound low if you are used to an angled machine, but it is equivalent to 565 pounds on a 45 degree machine and 622 pounds on a 40 degree machine.

The vertical stack machine, such as in my gym, has a sled which rides horizontally, and is driven by pads on your shoulders. So it's a lot more like actually squatting than a seated 45 degree leg press is. But it's still not really squatting.

There is always enough weight on any leg press machine if you do one leg at a time. And if you squat on one leg, (split squats / pistols) then you always have enough weight just with some dumbells. If you can split squat with a pair of 70# dumbells you are a strong man. If you can pistol that, you are getting up towards superman. So just because the weight on the leg press machine has a high amount of pounds, does not mean you are getting a high amount of exercise.

Now there are essentially two forms of squat in the picture. There is squatting down to something called "parallel" or near to that, where the angle of the knee is approximately a right angle. The other form is squatting "all the way down" so that your butt is down around your ankles. All the way down is tougher. So a guy that squats all the way down will not be able to squat as much as a guy that squats to parallel.

Most people can leg press a lot more than they can squat. But in your case, it's a bigger difference than I would expect. I can vertical stack leg press about 400 pounds, maybe a little more. I can (parallel) squat 345 pounds. If you convert that 400 pound leg press to angled, it would be about 560 - 620 pounds depending on which angle. Either way, I can leg press a lot more weight than I can squat, but it is not as much as twice the weight.

The point in your case is that you squat less than one fourth of what you leg press. Even if that is "all the way down" it is something that doesn't add up. Since it's your squat - a hugely valuable exercise - you want to take care of your squat.

...did that girl in your avatar just finish eating some Hoho's?? :confused:

I don't know but it's an interesting thought.

The leg press can also be on a machine with a vertical stack - where the weight is the true weight. The conversion between the vertical stack and 45 degree stack is 70.7% - in other words 1000 pounds of 45 degree angled weight is equivalent to 707 pounds of vertical weight. Some angled machines I think are actually 40 degrees even though people refer to them as 45 degree machines, and that conversion is 64.2% - so that 1000 pounds of 40 degree angled weight is equivalent to 642 pounds of vertical weight. The machine in my gym has a vertical stack which goes to 395 pounds. This might sound low if you are used to an angled machine, but it is equivalent to 565 pounds on a 45 degree machine and 622 pounds on a 40 degree machine.
.

Yep...these weight ratio discrepencies all factor in, and the other aspect of consideration is you can have two exact 45 degree leg press machines loaded up with the same amount of weight, yet one will feel heavier (or lighter) than the other. This depends on the angle of the fixed positioned foot plate, the angle and positioning of the seat, and also the amount of friction elicited by the pistons.

Almost the same principle with cable machine stacks. Have you ever done cable pushdowns with a weight you can normally do 12 reps with, yet use that same weight with the very same machine at a different gym, and the weight seems much heavier? The degree of friction with the pully system has been altered.

With a loaded 315 lb barbell on your back. No matter where you are during your range of motion, you have 315 lbs. on your shoulders....not 219.7 lbs., not 193.8 lbs., not 241.1 lbs, not 105.5 lbs....... but 315 lbs.

With a loaded 315 lb barbell on your back. No matter where you are during your range of motion, you have 315 lbs. on your shoulders....not 219.7 lbs., not 193.8 lbs., not 241.1 lbs, not 105.5 lbs....... but 315 lbs.

Pretty much. Thing is that some plates aren't that accurate. I swear my plates I have at home seem heavy, although I weighed a couple and they seemed OK. I have never missed an attempt benching 225# at the gym, and I have never made one at home. But if you don't have calibrated plates, they can easily be a pound or two off either way.

A pound off each plate though, still adds up to a much more accurate lift than going between leg press machines, etc.

Machines have their place, I'm not anti-machines. But I will say that a whole lot of my workouts have no machines in them at all. Since this is in the advice for beginners section, here is some advice for beginners.

Learn the few basic barbell and dumbell lifts. You can do an amazing amount of excellent work with just dumbells. The barbell is really helpful, especially if you have a bench and rack. Don't forget to use plates by themselves. If that's all you have access to, you are actually in really good shape. Get yourself a way to do pullups and dips and you won't miss any really important resistance exercises.

Mastover's suggestion to simplify the workout program is very sensible.

If you are just starting out, keep to the really simple stuff that really works. I know I go around beating the drum for step ups, but they are simple, safe, and really effective. Why not try this just once to see what I am getting at. Grab a couple dumbells, say 30# or so. Now do step ups on the bench at a rate of 30 steps a minute and see how many minutes you have. Remember to stop before you get light headed or dizzy for safety. To roughly approximate one of the fire fighter tests, use a pair of 35# dumbells and you have to go for about three and a half minutes (note that they use a stair machine so they are counting what are half step-ups as steps in case you know that they have to do 60 steps a minute). Most people who haven't trained for that will not succeed. That's not even four minutes.

I think that the amount that I squat has something to with the ROM difference between squating and leg presses (atleast the machine at my gym, CRC at University of Maryland, College Park). I have the vertical stacked weights but when i press becuase of how close i can get the seat to the surface where my feet push is lessened becuase my "stomach" is in the way. In squats, my legs are further apart and the ROM is greater. But i really do like squats. When youre done you feel like youve done three of four exercises instead of one. Plus I like Mastover's plan better than mine becuase its ALOT faster. Im keepin the lunges tho, i love those things. My legs quiver with fear after words (lunges + my legs =:spank::spank: :spank: :spank: :spank:)

Im update in a week fellas and fellettes! Thanx again:p

I think that the amount that I squat has something to with the ROM difference between squating and leg presses (atleast the machine at my gym, CRC at University of Maryland, College Park). I have the vertical stacked weights but when i press becuase of how close i can get the seat to the surface where my feet push is lessened becuase my "stomach" is in the way. In squats, my legs are further apart and the ROM is greater. But i really do like squats. When youre done you feel like youve done three of four exercises instead of one. Plus I like Mastover's plan better than mine becuase its ALOT faster. Im keepin the lunges tho, i love those things. My legs quiver with fear after words (lunges + my legs =:spank::spank: :spank: :spank: :spank:)

Im update in a week fellas and fellettes! Thanx again:p

"fellettes" i like that dude!

I don't know if its been mentioned before but you look alot like cedric the entertainer in that pic. (I think that's how you spell his name. )

Now get under the bar and squat!! :D

Btw when i feel badass i put on my "Shut up and Squat!" sweater. :spaz:

http://www.cafepress.com/cp/store.aspx?s=shutupandsquat

You are the seven millionth person who has told me that... thanx:tucool:

Had to Bump this real quick so that i can reference it... dont mind me:D

Bizzump