Can anyone tell me why a 5'0" approx 120 lb girl who runs about 35 miles a week in cross country, has a medium build, and eats 700-1000 calories a day wouldn't lose any weight? It seems like an enigma to me, her and everyone. She has adrenal fatigue, and her thyroid blood tests came back on the low end of normal, but even if she did have hypo-thyroidism she wouldn't take the hormone supplement because it comes from dead pigs, and she has strict moral views about that.

Well, I think if YOU are this fictional character, I would suggest that you eat more. And I would put aside your moral concerns and have a serious talk with your physician about the concequences of letting your condition go untreated. I don't know the alternatives to your situation, and I have a feeling that the "home physicians" here probably shouldn't give any advice (even if they think they are qualified) because we aren't able to properly diagnose you. Even if we were M.D.'s, we shouldn't.

The only other thing I could suggest would be to add in a good resistence routine to your training.



Can anyone tell me why a 5'0" approx 120 lb girl who runs about 35 miles a week in cross country, has a medium build, and eats 700-1000 calories a day wouldn't lose any weight? It seems like an enigma to me, her and everyone. She has adrenal fatigue, and her thyroid blood tests came back on the low end of normal, but even if she did have hypo-thyroidism she wouldn't take the hormone supplement because it comes from dead pigs, and she has strict moral views about that.

Thanks, I'll let her know and show her this page. If anyone else has any input, please chime in. I am actually not this "fictional" character, but someone who cares quite a bit about her. It doesn't matter either way though. Any input is appreciated.

Can anyone tell me why a 5'0" approx 120 lb girl who runs about 35 miles a week in cross country, has a medium build, and eats 700-1000 calories a day wouldn't lose any weight? It seems like an enigma to me, her and everyone. She has adrenal fatigue, and her thyroid blood tests came back on the low end of normal, but even if she did have hypo-thyroidism she wouldn't take the hormone supplement because it comes from dead pigs, and she has strict moral views about that.
Could be something called starvation mode, but I'm not sure if this has been scientifically proven.

When anyone severely restricts their daily caloric intake, their body rapidly goes into a starvation mode—a reaction we have all inherited from our distant ancestors who were forced to survive through long periods of famine. There is absolutely nothing that you or any of us can do to prevent this from happening except to never allow our caloric intakes to drop below 1,200 calories for women or 1,800 calories for men. When calories are restricted below these levels our bodies go into action to keep us alive by protecting us from starvation. In other words, the body instinctively kicks in all of its survival mechanisms to prevent death.

The first thing to happen when we enter the starvation mode is our basal metabolic rate begins to slow down. This occurs primarily by a reduction in the release of thyroid hormone from our thyroid gland. With severe caloric restriction our resting metabolic rate can drop by as much as 40 to 50 percent.

Next, our bodies begin metabolizing our own muscle tissue, converting it into glucose for its primary energy source in order to preserve fat stores that are essential for survival. That’s right—all that hard-earned muscle starts disappearing. And as if all of this isn’t bad enough, the activity of our fat-storing enzymes increases and our fat-burning enzymes decrease so we become very efficient at storing fat.

Given this person's current weight and activity level, I would approximate her maintence level to be about 2200 calories. To lose weight, she should probably eat about 1700 calories.

But, I agree; this is a question to ask a medical professional, not a random stranger.

Did she lose weight in the past on this program?
This program seems a bit extreme(too low calories), more so considering she is runing 35miles/week.

If she did lose weight in the recent past and it just recently halted.
I would try to eat more for 1-2 weeks to jump start her "engine" so to speak.

Cycling calories is also a good option :
A personal example :
I was pretty much stuck in terms of fat loss
for a good 6 weeks on 2000-2200 calories per day with me being
at least moderately active, and I was close to 220lbs at the time.

Nowdays on avg I ate 2245calories/day in the last 14 days
but with high days as high as 3500 and low days as low as 1500.
but in the last 14 days I've lost 3+ lbs and over an inch off my tummy...

Again I advise your friend to eat more.

Shahar.

I think that starvation mode is a very real thing. It has to do with the reduced amounts of of leptin secreted by the body. This actually causes the body to hang on to all of the fat that you eat when you are operating at a caloric deficit for an extended period of time:bang: That is why some people have the allowed cheat meal. Do a search on refeed, I think someone out there has a good explanation of leptin levels and starvation mode.

Hope this helps.

Jman

I'm really surprised noone's been blunt yet, but it needs to be said:

If she's eating 700 calories/day and running 35 miles a week, she's going to end up in the hospital. Not only is this absolutely not an effective way to lose weight and look good, it's extremely dangerous. She needs to be eating at least double that amount, and honestly, I think she should eat more than that- Guava's 1700 sounds right. This kind of diet is asking for trouble... she could give herself lasting health issues with this kind of thing, and it's quite possibly the reason for the thyroid symptoms. Is she anorexic (not a joke- serious question)? And if she does actually have thyroid problems, that's something she needs to take seriously. Is she ready to die to save a pig? If not, she should probably listen to her doctor. Moral issues are great when it comes to wearing fur or eating meat, but there's a line there. Her health should be a much higher priority than her love of animals.

What everyone else has said so far is dead on: eat (a LOT) more, make sure it's good clean healthy food, lift weights, keep running. Look around here and read the stickies. Even if she does start to lose weight on the plan she's on, she'll end up looking like a skeleton with a beer gut and love handles. That's not usually the look women shoot for. There are tons of good role models here that look awesome, and they're all super helpful if you ask questions. Judging by Guava's last few avatars, she's managed to attain the perfect female body (Guava- you're smokin' hot! :drool: ), she's worked hard to get it, and seems to enjoy helping others get there, too. There are many others like here who have the knowledge and are more than willing to share it. If your friend wants to sculpt a better body, she should start pursuing the knowledge. What she's doing now needs to stop immediately, before she does permanent damage.

/rant :mad:

Not trying to be mean, and eating too little is a common mistake when people start trying to diet- I did it myself at first, but not to this extreme. Getting educated on fitness, diet, and exercise is the #1 thing she can do to achieve her goals. It can change your life. I hope she decides to do it. :read:

Well, she's read all of this, and she has started cycling her calories (15-1800 one day, 7-900 next day), and she's started doing sprints. Her normal diet for her whole life has been about 1200 calories a day; she's not a very hungry person. If she eats more, will it not affect her weight?

If she eats more, it may have a very short term impact on her weight if she's always eaten less. It does that for some people sometimes, but if so, it will quickly change. It also doesn't effect some people. It didn't for me- I used to be a one meal a day guy before I started, but when I upped my calories to a normal range, I started losing weight pretty much immediately. In fact, I lost A LOT at first- like 8 pounds my first week (and I was never very big- I only had about 25 pounds to lose). At first, it will be hard to eat that much, but spread it out over six or more meals, eat every three hours or so, and she'll get used to it quickly, feel better all day, and see results. What that will definitely do, and what she wants to do if she's trying to lose weight, is that it will speed up her metabolism. That'll make it easier to lose weight because she'll burn more calories.

Cycling can work very well, but I'd recommend if she's doing that she still up the calories on both days. Think like 2000-2200 on her high days and maybe 1200-1400 for the low ones? I really don't think she should ever be below 1200 for her size and activity level. Check out the fat loss sticky by Gravityhomer in the beginner section of the forum. That will give you both a LOT of good information on how to lose weight the right way.

The one other thing to mention- I didn't see anything about lifting weights in your post about the changes she's made. I can't stress enough the benefits of weight training for losing fat. She shouldn't worry about looking like a bodybuilder chick- the only way a normal woman can get massive and ugly like that is to take drugs... there's simply not enough testosterone in your system to build that kind of muscle without help. She should definitely get started on that as soon as she can- the fat loss benefits are HUGE.

As far as losing fat, the best things she can do (in order of importance) are:

1) eat right, and eat enough
2) lift weights
3) cardio

Some people don't do any cardio at all and still get good results, but the ones who don't do any weights at all tend to look underfed and too skinny when the fat is gone. Hope this helps!

Novamatt, thank you. That's the best advice i've heard so far. This place http://forums.offtopic.com/forumdisplay.php?f=16 is a disgrace. My friend is going to summer camp for 4 weeks, and as a tradition, we write each other letters to read on the road. Your advice is going into the letter word for word so that she can look back on it in case she forgets or gets discouraged. Thank you very much.

Honestly, I'd question those numbers. I almost refuse to believe them. I suspect the person is either not running that amount or, far more likely, eating substantially more than 700-1000 calories/day.

At her weight and 5 miles/day she's burning 300-400 calories probably from the running, so that leaves her with 400-700 calories or less, maximum that she's taking in after the running. For somebody at a weight of 120 lbs, they cannot maintain that weight at 400-700 even if they are doing no activity and do not have the necessary metabolic boost and muscle associated with that amount of running. On such low calories it would be almost impossible for her to have anything but grueling, very tiresome workouts.

People's metabolisms can slow down, but it's breaks the law of conservation of energy to pretend that if a person goes too low on calories they can't lose weight.

I suppose it may be possible that she has the most incredibly slow metabolism on the planet and somehow needs only a net of 400-700 to maintain her functioning at 120, but I really doubt that.

This is my friend speaking from here on:

1) i see no reason in lying about my calorie intake. if i were lying why would i even ask for help on this issue? i'd know the answer
2) this is a bunch of bs because if ur metabolism could speed up to metabolize the number of calories you eat then, no one in the world would be fat.
3) i've tried eating more for 3 days and all i've done is gain more than a pound, feel like shit, and constantly have a stomach ache. (i've started eating 1,700 calories)
4) " it's breaks the law of conservation of energy to pretend that if a person goes too low on calories they can't lose weight." that's exactly why i'm asking for help. i don't understand how this is possible.
5) if i'm only storing fat, then why are my legs 99% muscle and why would you be able to barely see my four-pack? becase you wouldn't.
Anyway i'd rather stay at this weight(well the weight i was at before i decided to eat more) than feel as shitty as i have the past few days.

5) if i'm only storing fat, then why are my legs 99% muscle and why would you be able to barely see my four-pack? becase you wouldn't.
If your legs are 99% muscle and you can see your four-pack, then there's not any reason to lose weight. What are your goals?
Are you hungry?

I am forwarding a link of this thread on to Savyart, because I know she's had problems with weight loss at a "normal" amount of calories. She has traced her problems to the lengthy time that she one spent training for a marathon.

Hello! :)

Ok, where shall we start..... ;)


Lets break this down first :
You said your legs are 99% muscle and you can see a 4-pack (most women never see the 3rd set creating the 6-pack because of the biological makeup to have a fat-pad right there that is generally untouchable by die and exercise because it's there to protect your reproductive organs - not the same as the fat you gain from ice cream.) You cannot do that unless you are LOW in bodyfat. Have you had your bodyfat tested? You need to udnerstand first and foremost that your bodyfat percentage is MORE important than the number on the scale.

If your bodyfat is that low - you do NOT need to lose anymore weight. It doesn't matter what the scale says. And if you are thinking along the BMI terms, that was established for couch potatoes and as a guideline for physicians to step in and say "GET OFF YOUR BUTTS!" not as a guide for athletes (which running 35 mpw classifies you as), pregnant women, or children (yes, they have a new one out for kids though.)

What it sounds like is a matter of being where you are suposed to be, and needing to accept that, by bringing up your calories SLOWLY to a maintenance level. If your lower half is all muscle, I assume what bothers you is your upper half? You do a lot of running - do you do any weight training? Runners often forget to train their bodies, you may find that weight training/toning your body is all you need to feel better about what you see.

At this point though - from your description, you need to ignore the scale. You are dealing with accepting your own body composition - which you cannot change if you are that low in bodyfat.

Now, about the lowthyroid. There are other options besides the "dead pig" pills. There are other treatments, and they should be looked into. However, because you are running that much and starving yourself (yes, that is what 700-1000 calories a day is - even if you only do it every other day) YOU may be causing the thyroid issue. You DO need to up your calories to somewhere between 1600-2000 calories a day - EVERY DAY.

Don't go from 700 to 2000 though. Slowly up it, about 100-200 calories per week per day, until you are up to speed. Yes, your body might gain a pound or two - but it is TEMPORARY. Your body will have an innitial gut reflex to you finally getting around to feeding it, and in it's terror will hoard what you have given it. Once it has a more consistent input, it will mellow and let it go again. You also need to be aware that your body is starving for glucose, when it gets that from food it stores it with a little water in your muscles. (you know how runners talk about carb-loading? This is basically it. They starve themselves of it - depleat their levels, then load up and their body OVER-stores it for a big race. Your body is likely in that situation already and will overstore until it figures out that this isn't a one time thing, and then it will mellow out again.)

So, to minimize this instant reflex your body is likely to have - ramp up calories slowly over the next couple of weeks until you get to at least 1700-1800 EVERY SINGLE DAY. Maintain it there, and after about 4-6 weeks, then look at everything from how you feel to how you look. DO NOT STEP ON THE SCALE - you have already established that it's a useless measurement tool.

Now, back to the thyroid problem, which may be feeding into this anyway. There is something called Athlete's Thyuroid syndrome. I myself have issues with it. http://intl-ajpregu.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/266/3/R817 In short they were able to induce a low-thyroid state with just 4 days of aggressive exercise and low calories. (and your thyroid usually still tests normal, and the only thing that corrects this is T-3 therapy, which you can do on a lower scale naturally with a supplement called L-tryosine which is a T-3 precursor. This is how I am working with mine, because none of the Dr's out here in the backwards boonies will listen to me. It has made a massive difference, but it did take a long time for it to do so.) however, before you do anything you need to consider what the problem really is - which I hesitate to tell you about this due to the fact that it sounds like you have a low body fat, and this would NOT be the case if you had this problem.

You may be having trouble with this - but as you have said you seem to have a low body fat, so I am uncertain at this moment. Your problems seem a lot more related to starvation, and a lack of acceptance of your body type - due to the fact you are already at a low bodyfat if you can see a 4-pack.

If you would like to fill in more details about what you see, where you are at, and what you are experiencing, I'm sure we'd be glad to help - unless this all answered your questions. :) If it did, then in simple terms, I would make getting your body back to a healthy baseline your project for the next 4-6 weeks.

Slowly ramp up your calories. If you have been eating 700-1000 everyday, bump that to 1000-1200 for a week, then up it again to 1300 every day, then 14-1600, then on up. You should also realize that your stomach is shruken (internally) from the lack of intake most likely - as a reason for your complaint that eating more hurts. You should be eating about 6 small meals/snacks a day to equal that caloric intake.

If you like your exercise plan, stick with it for now. If your upper body is a concern, try adding in weight lifting.

Ignore the scale and any innitial bloat until the 4-6 weeks are overwith. Then look at things, and how you feel and re-evaluate.

Get your bodyfat tested.

Good luck to you! :)

1) i see no reason in lying about my calorie intake. if i were lying why would i even ask for help on this issue? i'd know the answer
I don't think you're lying, I think you may be mistaken. I simply cannot believe that somebody 5,0", 120 who is decently muscled and runs 35 miles/week would not lose weight on 700/day. I think either your calorie counting is off or once/week you're eating like a starving orphan or something, but I honestly think you should call up the Guiness book of records if, long term, you're able to eat consistently 700-1000 calories/day and run like you do, maintaining solid muscle, and not losing any weight. It would be worth of a major news story!

BTW, the metabolism does speed and slow depending on calories consumed, although it does not have a perfect correlation. If a person is able to maintain their body weight at 1000/day and starts eating 2000/day consistently, their metabolism will speed up, though probably not 1000 calories/day, but with my activity level I can maintain body weight on low 3000's. I have single digit bodyfat but if I was to go on 500 calories/day and somehow maintain my energy output, it's not like I'd be in the hole 2500+/day; my body's metabolism would slow down and/or it would start to eat away lean tissue to help make up the deficit, but people can live for great periods of time on very low calories (just ask an anorexic, who has destroyed his/her metabolism and now it barely needs anything to keep them partially alive).

What is your bodyfat and what times are you able to run at?

Thanks for the replies, everyone. She's left for camp, and I printed off Guava's reply and gave it to her. She was quite satisfied with it. Thank you very much. I'll keep you updated as to how it goes.