remember me? lol

im wanting to slow bulk or bulk.. depends.

originally i wanted to go on SUP2 with Chris but i cant quite cough up the cash right now to afford it... but i will ... i plan on it... i wont give that up.

so im looking to JSF for some general guidance.... if this is okay... i hope it is.

Ive never bulked before so im looking for some understanding from you all as it relates to my specific body type. I know everything comes down to expierementation and finding out what works best for you etc.
Ive read thru the " BULKING - A beginner's guide".

Would this be a good start?

Recently ive been pretty much maintaining ... doing semi SGX lifestyle... lifting... not much of any cardio though.

but i cant stomach just maintaining anymore. I really want to make progress... but the other way... adding muscle mass.

So what do you all recommend?

My stats.... around 175lbs... 10%bf.... 28yrs.. went from endomorph to where im at now... mesomorph.

I gain muscle EASY. im not a hard gainer.

My apologies if this post is not appropriate under the rules here. I havent been around much to determine if it is or isnt. I just want to gain progress in the muscle dept and im looking for some general help from you all.

im not sure about the concepts for bulking as it relates to lifting...

should i do lower reps and higher volume? max-ot?

heres what im looking at now...

warm up....
1set 50% for 10-12 reps
1set @ 70% for 8 reps
1set @90% for 3 reps

now to hit that...
go heavy (100%) for 3 sets 6-8 reps.


again this is from " BULKING - A beginner's guide"

also here is my unique problem/situation...

i will be going to grad school in the fall (so i may not have much time to dedicate 4 days out of the week... i will push for 3 though... but im not sure how much time i have)

so time is going to be a problem... being that im not sure how much time i will have. this is important to me... so i gather i will have to MAKE the time... so i know how it works... if it means getting up an hour and a half earlier i will.

but right now... its summer time and i have some time to rock n roll... but id still like to keep it 3 days out of the week. thats what i have to work with.


thnx guys. sorry for lengthy post.

Of course you can ask this here, that's what the forum is for!

I'm not an expert on bulking, but given your time constraints, you might be better suited for either an upper/lower split or a flat out full body routine.

If you go the full body route, you would probably want 1 day where you focus on lower reps, like 3-5, another day on 6-8 and if you can squeeze in a 3rd day, 8-12 reps. If you can only manage 2 days, try to fit in the whole spectrum, but emphasize the 6-12 range for hypertrophy.

Calories is purely person dependent, but you'd probably do well starting around 500/day over what you're eating now and then adding more as you see fit.

Hope that was of some help. If I think of more or you ask more questions, I'll chime in again.

My apologies if this post is not appropriate under the rules here. I havent been around much to determine if it is or isnt. I just want to gain progress in the muscle dept and im looking for some general help from you all.

Kross, I would assume that at over 1,800 posts you could say that you have 'been around here much!' Although, 1,799 probably came when you hit that last plateau just before going on SGX!!

Here is a great thread that I as an FFB will follow when I do my first bulk! (without their supplementation though)

http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=05-118-diet

Anyway, you've done a great job so far and have been an inspiration to many, many people (myself included) here at JSF!

Here's another article from the same author above:

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1021940

PERFECT! i didnkt know that i was in a totally different catagory... FFB huh? ! lol

thats true. this will help me out... thnx to all of you. i will come up with more specific questions later when i have more time... but i just wanted to say thnx to you all for the responses first.


it looks like "The Half-Body Split" will be what will work best for me.

but what does this entail specifically? hows this routine?

300 cals over my maintenance number is what i should be hitting.

im keeping the concepts i learned in SGX (for eating) as that is probably best.
i guess.

Former Fat Boy? Wow. This article is awesome! I've always thought I was in a special category since the typical advice out there that I followed ended up to be detrimental to my progress.

More more more! Post more (if you know of any more).

yeh it really is good stuff. :tu:

okay heres my first day...

chest..

incline bench..
3 warm up sets
3 sets of 100%
6-8reps

flat bench
3 sets of 100%
6-8 reps

bar bell flys
3 sets of 100%
6-8 reps

abs

90 sec rest between sets.

i felt good. its good to change it up. ive been running the same thing for awhile. changing things up makes avoids the boredom.. so at least i got that out of the way.



so hows this look so far?

should i add something else?

When you say 100%, you clearly don't mean 1RM. What do you mean?

It seems that the standard is to represent your working sets in terms of 1RM. For instance, 80% dips would be 80% of my 1RM (say 50), so 40 lbs.

I just want to help avoid confusion later. :)

Are you doing one part a week? I personally see better results with separating upper and lower body, or doing different planes of motion (vertical, horizontal) on different days.

He's just denoting that those are work sets. Done at 100% effort for that rep range, I believe.

Keep up the good work, kross! :tu:


It seems that the standard is to represent your working sets in terms of 1RM. For instance, 80% dips would be 80% of my 1RM (say 50), so 40 lbs.
Actually that would be a bad example since you need to factor bodyweight into dips in order to get an accurate %. If you weigh 150 and your 1-RM is +50 lbs, you'd be doing 190 by your example, but only 160 by a percentage, which would be actually the correct amount to use.

Gee, thanks for the advice, Caption Oblivious:lol:
from the first article posted above, for some reason I laughed my ass off while reading that part.

He's just denoting that those are work sets. Done at 100% effort for that rep range, I believe.

Keep up the good work, kross! :tu:


yep thats it... sorry for the confusion.

and thnx!

what kind of lifting routine would be best for my situation?

full body? half body?

IMO, it depends on whether or not you can put rest days between workouts. If so, I'd go with full body, if not, probably upper/lower. Either way, both will work.

yeh,,, actually id like to put rest days between workouts.


so full body?

whats a good routine/workout for this then?

i want to do compounds... most importantly squats n deads.

thnx man.

How many days a week, 2 or 3?

I remember kross from a while back- great job on your success man.

If you are as dedicated now as you were then, I have a few questions for you:

How is your general, relative strength? Can you do 3x8-10 bodyweight pullups? 3x12-15 bodyweight dips? If not, I suggest you try Chad Waterbury's ABBH (http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=244anti2). It's a very simple, laid out program focusing on large compound movements as an upper/lower, 4-day split. It mixes different rep schemes for both muscle growth and strength, and utilizes antagonist pairing to improve work capacity. Even if you're strong as an ox, 8 weeks on the program (with weighted dips and chins) will benefit you.

If you only have three days, I suggest his Total Body Training (http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=04-073-training) or Waterbury Method (http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=04-113-training). I'm personally doing a mix of both with great results. And 3-day/wk heavy training really feels great. I've definitely been a lot hungrier all the time (which is a good sign, because you can stand to eat more when you're doing fullbody), and I'm hardly as sore like when I used to do splits a few years ago.

Make sure you follow the FFB article. That is really some great advice.



How many days a week, 2 or 3?

thnx to the both of you for the responses. im looking into that link.

i would say that right now i can rock 3 days for sure. starting late august im not so sure about that... but who knows untill i get there.

with that TBT how many days of rest between the days you lift? at least one?


im reading it trying to understand it...pretty confusing... but i just need to look at it more.


4compound excersizes and 2 single joint excersizes. understood

whats that antagonist and straight stuff though?

okay ive read thta TBT thing again and ive answered my own questions above.

it says to be creative when creating your workouts.

all i know is that im suppose to choose 4 compounds and 2 single joint.

im doing straight sets first time... move on to antagnist later.

can i have some examples of some routines... setups?

i guess i will start with

hams
quads- front raises
pullups
deadlifts
biceps curls
hammers


hows that grouping?


i need some more examples... the reason is because i dont want to do bad groupings... doing one set of excersizes after another sometimes is not good. i understand to go from compound to single... but other then that im not sure.

can i have some examples of some routines... setups?

i guess i will start with

hams
quads- front raises
pullups
deadlifts
biceps curls
hammers


hows that grouping?


Typically, I choose exercises that hit each major muscle group for each workout- chest (tris), back (bis), front leg (quads), posterier chain/hams (lower back, glutes), and to some extent shoulders. So a few typical groupings I have used are:

pullups
dips
deep squats
stiff leg DL
overhead press

or

bench
bentover row
leg press
regular deadlift


And for 1-3 iso exercises, I might do bicep curls, lateral raises, tricep pressdowns, hanging ab raise, or calf raises. I like doing a little more during my workouts because I have pretty decent recovery.

You really can mix it up a lot, and it makes my workouts more enjoyable and I look forward to them everytime. I would stick to Chad Waterbury's rep schemes for at least one cycle until you get used to his ideas, and get your body primed for heavier lifting under the Waterbury Method.

That's 4 compounds minimum. You can do five, or six if you are up to them and you don't go with all of the big ones. Just don't go over 2 isos.

In your list, I wouldn't do curls and hammer curls together if that is what you mean. Maybe curls with skull crushers, so that when you hit the workout the second week and you go antagonistic sets, they work well together.

thnx.

so how would you edit that setup i posted?


just take out hammer curls? yeh i ment bar bell curls and hammer curls... for the biceps.

thats 4 compounds and 2 isos right?

thnx.

so how would you edit that setup i posted?


just take out hammer curls? yeh i ment bar bell curls and hammer curls... for the biceps.

thats 4 compounds and 2 isos right?


Don't do two isos for the same body part. Do skull crushers instead of one of them to hit the triceps, or tricep pushdowns, or something for maybe calves.

so i alredy did that setup i posted. id like to get it edited before i do it again...do i do this again next week?

also... next up id like to hit shoulders and do squats.

so i have to create a good grouping for this. any ideas?

im trying to learn the groupings here as i go. so forgive me if this seems very silly or elementry.... but i have to start somehow.

Don't do two isos for the same body part. Do skull crushers instead of one of them, or tricep pushdowns, or something for maybe calves.


okay thnx. ill keep this in mind next time. so ill edit out the hammers and do triceps or something. thnx.

Yeah, you do the same exercises next week, you just do them in pairs. So, for the exercises we're talking about, the last pairing would be curls, skull crushers.

So, set of curls, rest about half your allocated rest period, set of skull crushers, rest again, curls...

To do your shoulders and squats, maybe:

Barbell Back Squat
Good Mornings
Standing Military Press
Dips
Standing Calf Raises
Hammer curls

Yeah, you do the same exercises next week, you just do them in pairs. So, for the exercises we're talking about, the last pairing would be curls, skull crushers.

So, set of curls, rest about half your allocated rest period, set of skull crushers, rest again, curls...

To do your shoulders and squats, maybe:

Barbell Back Squat
Good Mornings
Standing Military Press
Dips
Standing Calf Raises
Hammer curls

thnx man.

since i did hammers already... ill switch tris in for that? that cool?
next week ill do it like this.

i dont have a place to do dips right now... anything else i can do for instead of this?

im resting 60sec between sets and 120 sec between the different excersizes.

when you say "pairs" what do you mean?

I was considering dips to be the tri exercise, so, you could swap it for maybe a row to make it more lat based, then do some kind of tricep iso.

If you read the article, every second week, you pair off your antagonist (opposite) exercises that you did the previous week. So, in my example, you'd do this:

A1 Barbell Back Squat
A2 Good Mornings

B1 Standing Military Press
B2 Pullups (or lat pulldowns)

C1 Standing Calf Raises
C2 Tricep pressdowns

So, you'd do A1, rest a half interval, A2, rest a half interval....(until you complete your number of sets)

Then, you move to the B pairings, and do the same thing, them move to C to finish.

You can search over there in the forums, and somebody's made a spreadsheet of all of Waterbury's workouts. It has a filled in TBT example if you want to get an idea of the flow, but I'd recommend you create your own to emphasis what you need, and what equipment you have available.

thnx. i couldnt find the spreadsheet but i found CW post on an example.

im still confused with the whole antagonist paring bit though.

i notice that every 3rd week you change it up... different excersizes.

week 1 and week 2 are the same
week 3 and week 4 are the same but different (excersizes) then week 1&2.

then continue that cycle?

so if i can get 6 setups for 1&2 and 6 setups for weeks 3&4... i could build a plan to continue to use.

but in order to do this i need to understanding the antagonist pairing bit.

Antagonistic just means exercises that work the opposite set of muscles. For instance, chest's antagonist is upper back. Bicep is tricep. Quads would be hip/glutes/hams.

You don't have to be perfect on it, and sometimes, there just isn't an antagonist easy to work (for example, calves). Just work those in where you can. That's why I suggested them as a possibility for something like bis if you already had tricep work in a workout.

ah okay... thnx that makes sense.


i will post up my workouts here so that you all can correct me when im doing wrong... id appreciate that... and infact i appreciate the help thus far on the workouts.

i was reading the posts on that tnation TBT article and it looks like one of the treats of this program is that you can design a routine that works best for your goal/s and situation... train a certain area more...work/school etc.

Also i noticed that its still very confusing to me... but like anything else in life the more i work at it the more unconfused i will become. Im just going to keep posting up my routines here to see if its cool with you all.... those that know about TBT.


Since people like to focus on certain areas and without neglecting legs at all... because i know how important that is... i want to focus on my pecs and biceps... yes showy muscles i know.

anybody on JSF on this or was on it? Id be interested in seeing your excersize pairings.... i need something to pick from... so it will make it easier for me to design my own. thnx

Hey Kross,

You were asking for examples a few days ago, and since I'm currently half way through TBT I thought I could provide you with the routine I've done. I don't know if it will help or not, but it is an example. Since I'm making it up as I go and I'm only half way through the 8 week program, this file only contains the workouts for the first 4 weeks. The rest will be added as I progress :). I don't want to create the entire 8 week program at one time because I get the urge to try new things as I progress (for example Smith presses next week).

Anyways, here it is (http://arker.homelinux.org/~dcraven/trans/hguy/training/tbt_program.zip).

Cheers, and have fun! Saying you've done a great job cutting is an understatement. I wish you the same success with your bulk!

Heavy

I'm on week 3 of TBT. For what it's worth, here's my program for weeks 1-4. I'm using machines for some stuff so this may not work for you, but you said you wanted examples.

Weeks 1-2:
Workout 1
C - Incline Bench Presses (DB)
C - Cybex Lat Pull-Downs
C - Squats
C - Sumo Deadlifts
SJ - Cybex Calf Raises
SJ - Cybex Leg Curls
Workout 2
C - Cybex Bench Presses
C - Cybex Rows
C - Power Squats
C - Good Mornings
SJ - Bicep Curls (BB)
SJ - Alternate Front Arm Raises
Workout 3
C - Decline Bench Presses (BB)
C - Seated Cable Rows
C - Cybex Leg Press
C - Deadlifts
SJ - Hammer Curls (DB)
SJ - Lying Triceps Extensions (DB)

Weeks 3-4:
Workout 1
C - Sumo Deadlifts
C - One-Arm Rows (DB)
C - Flat Bench Presses (BB)
C - Power Squats
SJ - Cybex Curls
SJ - Cybex Triceps Extensions
Workout 2
C - Squats
SJ - Bicep Curls (DB)
C - Incline Bench Presses (DB)
C - Seated Cable Rows
C - Cybex Military Presses
SJ - Cybex Hip Extensions
Workout 3
C - Lunges (DB)
C - Good Mornings
C - Chin Ups
C - Dips
SJ - Cybex Leg Curls
SJ - Cybex Calf Raises

perfect! HeavyGuy and DLiguid. thnx. this is exactly what i was looking for.

how does the program feel? notice any difference? doing good?

Yeah, Kross --

Here is a spreadsheet of TBT. I think this is the garden variety one recommended by Waterbury.

FWIW, I just started this today as I no longer have 4 - 5 days to lift any more.

Just open the Excel folder and click on the "TBT-Entered" Tab and there it is!

Where is here?

I'm curious to see it myself.

:tu: coachese!

perfect! HeavyGuy and DLiguid. thnx. this is exactly what i was looking for.

how does the program feel? notice any difference? doing good?
Hope it was of some use.

As far as my results and the "feel" of the program, you have to remember that I am still working with a caloric deficit as I continue my first mega-cut so I'll not see much in terms of size gains. However, I've been seeing ongoing strength gains moreso than I did during the split routine that I did prior to TBT.

These strength gains may or may not be a direct result of TBT though. I don't know. Your results may vary. This program obviously has a focus on heavy compound movements, so this might be where these gains are coming from. DOMS is easier to handle when compared to a split for sure. During my split I worked one or two muscle groups to total fatigue. A day or two after that I'd expect pretty severe DOMS in those groups for almost a week. This isn't the case with a full body program since each muscle group recieves less volume on each day. This is offset by more frequent workouts per muscle group (3x per week).

What I like most about TBT is the freedom to select your own exercises and to put them together as you see fit. All the program specifies is the actual rep/set parameters that you have to perform on a daily and weekly basis, and that you select mostly compounds over isolation movements (6 compounds, 2 isolation per day if you like). This allow you to chose the exercises based on the equipment you have, to prioritize exercises as you see fit (for example if you have weak areas that you want to emphasize), and to keep things mixed up enough so that the routine doesn't become repetative and stale from week to week.

I'm happy with it because it introduced a lot of change from the split routine I used before TBT. Probably any such routine would have given similar results. It's hard to say. But I can say that I've enjoyed it so far, and I'll definately be holding on to my workout sheets so that I can do the entire TBT again at some point in the future. Maybe when I do my own bulk :).

Cheers,
Heavy

Kross sorry to hi-jack your thread but...coachese, your the man, I've been looking everywhere on T-Nation for the program schedule and you just made my day. Well actually my year. There is enough info to keep my body guessing for the next twelve months.:nod:

perfect! HeavyGuy and DLiguid. thnx. this is exactly what i was looking for.

how does the program feel? notice any difference? doing good?I'm only starting week three, and I'm also cutting, but so far I like it.

The pairing on the even numbered weeks is a bit of a hassle if the gym is crowded. I also won't be pairing squats and deadlifts again because the setup between sets is too much work.

Hope it was of some use.





sure was man. thnx.

and thanks for letting me know your expierence with it thus far.

I'm only starting week three, and I'm also cutting, but so far I like it.

The pairing on the even numbered weeks is a bit of a hassle if the gym is crowded. I also won't be pairing squats and deadlifts again because the setup between sets is too much work.


yeh that pairing of squats n deadlifts is crazy.

but i just found out the difference between sumo squats and regular squats. i didnt know there were different types. ive been doing sumo squats all the time.

let me see if i can make it through that pairing and be okay to do it again.

thnx for letting me know too man.

about my diet.


ive read that FFB deal... and i pretty much understand the concepts and ideas... im low carbing it...bookending my big carbs around my lifts and when i wake up... rest of the time im low carbing it... seperating my fats and carbs... doing the whole fat with protein.... eating around 5 to 6 times a day. my meals are done by eyesight... ive trained myself pretty good since coming off of SGX to be able to get more of understanding of how to eye my foods... but it isnt perfect.

ive basically cut of a lot of cardio and upped my food intake just a little.

how safe is this?
hard to tell i know... but whats the worst that can happe on this?
4 pounds of fat gain to 1 pound of muscle? no muscle gain only fat gain?

if i keep this up... i should expect some muscle gain... correct?

i know i just have to wait around...4 weeks and measure myself or see myself in the mirror... or whatever... but i just want to know what you all have to say about this.